70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD

antohan said:
I still don't get the rush for Keane. Pires was a player you needed to get.

Anyhow, you also still have Wiltord, don't you. You would need to consider him an option on that left side.

You may need to put Beckham in a midfield three and play with no width as well. People don't like that though, which I find ironic as we had never-ending threads here with people wanting Becks in central midfield...

I think it will be important that whatever you come up with is clearly explained relative to Dan's team and how you propose to play the game.

If I start thinking long and hard I can see some merits in what you posted. I don't think anyone thinks as hard before voting. I wouldn't have voted for it as it is without a proper explanation, not ever.
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Basically I can't see anyone beating a Ballack and Keane in midfield and Hamann to provides the calm.

That formation will be thought over obviously .Just wanted to post the line up.

Also in this game people forget about "height" which my team has in plenty and thus Beckham's crossing would be a delight.
 
antohan said:
The rules were changed and these changes widely agreed upon. It made the system fairer on second placed teams and removed the "one per team" barrier. It's all over the thread. I can't change the op, Cal posted that, but which part of this implied you couldn't get Davids and Mendieta?
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Several people replied, not just you. I couldn't be bothered to seek the correct answer, two from three was fine.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Basically I can't see anyone beating a Ballack and Keane in midfield and Hamann to provides the calm.
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See that. You still need to create though, that's what isn't clear at all.

Also in this game people forget about "height" which my team has in plenty and thus Beckham's crossing would be a delight.
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Actually, I do think about that, particularly when you have Beckham on. Corners and free kicks it will count, but not sure in open play, only really Ballack that could make that weigh, the rest are too far back.
 
Cling Bak said:
Several people replied, not just you. I couldn't be bothered to seek the correct answer, two from three was fine.
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Your choice. I posted that because I noticed it was confusing and some had actually posted the wrong instructions. I PMd you as well to make sure you were clear what the correct rules were (did the others PM you as well?).

Clearly I made everything I possibly could to make it clear for you in very precise terms. If you choose to ignore it, and go with what others posted, that's up to you.
 
Brwned said:
Tuesday - Cold Boy v DanNistelrooy
Wednesday - kps88 v antohan
Thursday - Cling Bak v 2nd place in Group D (probably Snow)
Friday - Brwned v 1st place in Group D (probably Rood)

We can swap the first two games round if you need another day.



I do think Lopez gives this attack what it needs but I'm not sure three forwards is completely necessary in most games, and I agree I don't think he's that highly rated. If I get Ayala it means I could go either:

337432_F_C__Barcelona.jpg


341422_Juventus.jpg
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Ayala is the better defender but imo Hyppia is the better partner for Ferdinand who for all his height is more comfortable alongside someone attacking the aerial balls. You could pick up Veron to complete a midfield diamond with Pirlo, Davids and Valeron. If you get past Rood in the next round, you can pick up Rivaldo, either as a second striker behind Shearer or at the apex of the diamond in place of Valeron.
 
Agree with ^^^. I think you should get Veron instead of Tacchinardi instead of Ayala for Hyypia. Lopez would have been a brilliant player to have but i think he's better right up top playing on the shoulder (one of the best i've ever seen at that), but you already have 2 great strikers.
 
Polaroid said:
If you get past Rood in the next round, you can pick up Rivaldo, either as a second striker behind Shearer or at the apex of the diamond in place of Valeron.
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This is why I didn't go on further on the López matter. Having Rivaldo as a possible future improvement you wouldn't pick a second underrated/nonvotewinning left forward.

Not sure about the Verón thing though but that's up to Brwned.
 
What about a Keane-Ballack-Litamen midfield for Coldboy?
imo thats a perfect combination.
 
antohan said:
This is why I didn't go on further on the López matter. Having Rivaldo as a possible future improvement you wouldn't pick a second underrated/nonvotewinning left forward.

Not sure about the Verón thing though but that's up to Brwned.
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If we are going by players at their peak, it would be unbelievable to ignore Veron. Brwned already has one of the best defenses in the competition and Hyypia's qualities are complementary to Ferdinand's. With Veron alongside Davids, Pirlo and Valeron, it would hard for other competing teams to better his midfield. Add to that the prospect of Rivaldo and Shearer in his attack, it would be impossible to look past him as one of the hot favourites to win this tournament.
 
Right so to sum up so far...

Cold Boy
Beckham
Keane

kps88
Pires
Sergi

antohan
Nesta
Seedorf

DanNistelrooy
Serginho
Makelele

Cling Bak
Vieira
Mendieta

Brwned
Davids
?

If Cling Bak only picked Vieira because he was confused of the rules then we can swap Vieira and Davids around in our team, no problem.
 
Polaroid said:
If we are going by players at their peak, it would be unbelievable to ignore Veron. Brwned already has one of the best defenses in the competition and Hyypia's qualities are complementary to Ferdinand's. With Veron alongside Davids, Pirlo and Valeron, it would hard for other competing teams to better his midfield. Add to that the prospect of Rivaldo and Shearer in his attack, it would be impossible to look past him as one of the hot favourites to win this tournament.
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Don't you think Pirlo-Veron-Valeron is overkill to some extent? None were particularly versatile, Valeron the most but even then you don't want him drifting out wide constantly, so three central playmakers just seemed a bit much. Ayala's far from a necessary addition but with Rivaldo in the next round that's 4 central playmakers in one team...just seems a bit crazy. If I got that far then I'd be up against either Cold Boy or Dan meaning I'd have the chance to get Ronaldo - essentially it's the only time I'd have the option of picking up a defender.

Does anyone else agree that Hyypia's a better partner for Rio than Ayala? It's quite the opposite for me, despite Hyypia's height I don't think he was as combative (or competent) in the air as Ayala.
 
Polaroid said:
If we are going by players at their peak, it would be unbelievable to ignore Veron. Brwned already has one of the best defenses in the competition and Hyypia's qualities are complementary to Ferdinand's. With Veron alongside Davids, Pirlo and Valeron, it would hard for other competing teams to better his midfield. Add to that the prospect of Rivaldo and Shearer in his attack, it would be impossible to look past him as one of the hot favourites to win this tournament.
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Too many wonder passes, not enough workrate. Brwned himself pointed that out when arguing over Pirlo's contribution vs. Verón's.

As I said, not a bad option, but you become a bit lightweight, Davids or no Davids. Still, Tacchniardi would be on the bench if needed I guess.
 
Brwned said:
Don't you think Pirlo-Veron-Valeron is overkill to some extent? None were particularly versatile, Valeron the most but even then you don't want him drifting out wide constantly, so three central playmakers just seemed a bit much. Ayala's far from a necessary addition but with Rivaldo in the next round that's 4 central playmakers in one team...just seems a bit crazy. If I got that far then I'd be up against either Cold Boy or Dan meaning I'd have the chance to get Ronaldo - essentially it's the only time I'd have the option of picking up a defender.

Does anyone else agree that Hyypia's a better partner for Rio than Ayala? It's quite the opposite for me, despite Hyypia's height I don't think he was as combative (or competent) in the air as Ayala.
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I agree with your assessment. Just one flaw in there: you wouldn't meet ColdBoy/Dan but kps/me.

You have to get used to the fact you came second in Group C ;)

1. 1st Group A vs. 2nd Group B
2. 1st Group B vs. 2nd Group A
3. 1st Group C vs. 2nd Group D
4. 1st Group D vs. 2nd Group C

Then:

Winner 1 vs. Winner 3
Winner 2 vs. Winner 4

And the winners playing the final.
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Another question is : aren't we adding players to the winning sides rather than subbing them?
 
antohan said:
Too many wonder passes, not enough workrate. Brwned himself pointed that out when arguing over Pirlo's contribution vs. Verón's.

As I said, not a bad option, but you become a bit lightweight, Davids or no Davids. Still, Tacchniardi would be on the bench if needed I guess.
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That's how I see it too, the only teams to have played with that many playmakers have either done it with wide playmakers, like Milan, Brazil etc., or hard-working playmakers like with Barcelona currently. None of these can be applied to Veron, Pirlo or Valeron. I just can't see it working.

Rustu is that one nagging weak link though. As irrelevant as it may end up being, Toldo over Rustu is a significant improvement compared to Ayala over Hyypia. Really not sure but I'm still siding with Ayala.

antohan said:
I agree with your assessment. Just one flaw in there: you wouldn't meet ColdBoy/Dan but kps/me.

You have to get used to the fact you came second in Group C ;)
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:(

Right enough, well then if I manage to sneak through that far it'll be Zidane...proper playmaker overkill.

KM said:
What about a Keane-Ballack-Litamen midfield for Coldboy?
imo thats a perfect combination.
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It's the only option for me, dropping Litmanen for Hamann is pure madness given he's the only playmaker in the side and Keane already does the work of two men.

What do you reckon KM, who'd you choose for me?
 
337432_F_C__Barcelona.jpg


I like this team mate. I think the central defender pairing is simply the best in the whole competition, the midfield is incredible and the front four is also brilliant.

That midfield is so amazingly balanced.
 
Brwned said:
Don't you think Pirlo-Veron-Valeron is overkill to some extent? None were particularly versatile, Valeron the most but even then you don't want him drifting out wide constantly, so three central playmakers just seemed a bit much. Ayala's far from a necessary addition but with Rivaldo in the next round that's 4 central playmakers in one team...just seems a bit crazy. If I got that far then I'd be up against either Cold Boy or Dan meaning I'd have the chance to get Ronaldo - essentially it's the only time I'd have the option of picking up a defender.

Does anyone else agree that Hyypia's a better partner for Rio than Ayala? It's quite the opposite for me, despite Hyypia's height I don't think he was as combative (or competent) in the air as Ayala.
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antohan said:
Too many wonder passes, not enough workrate. Brwned himself pointed that out when arguing over Pirlo's contribution vs. Verón's.

As I said, not a bad option, but you become a bit lightweight, Davids or no Davids. Still, Tacchniardi would be on the bench if needed I guess.
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In the later half of his career, Veron was often used as a playmaker starting moves from deep, but early in his career at Parma and Lazio, he excelled in a variety of roles and covered plenty of ground, his workrate was never in doubt to those who have seen him then.
Valeron is the one that you would be carrying defensively but not more than someone like Zidane.

Rivaldo is more about goals than playmaking imo.

If you are to beat Antohan, I would suggest recruiting Nesta instead of Zidane.

Ultimately it is your team and your call
 
Bit of a dull and predictable end to the game I'm afraid, Rood finishes top and Snow finishes second. Close matches throughout the group stages, hard luck on most of the teams going out.

Tuesday - Cold Boy v DanNistelrooy
Wednesday - kps88 v antohan
Thursday - Cling Bak v Snow
Friday - Brwned v Rood

Now it's time for the teams to take their winnings. Rood picks first, Snow second, Rood third, Snow fourth. And just to clarify again, you can pick any one of the 24 players available from the two teams.

12 Zen 1. TOTTI, 2. THURAM 3. DECO 4. BUFFON 5. RAFAEL MARQUEZ 6. SENNA 7. SALGADO 8. HARRY KEWELL 9. KALADZE 10. ELBER 11. ETXEBRRIA

10 Ralaks 1. NEDVED, 2. CANNAVARO 3. COCU 4. BARAJA 5. INZAGHI 6. MARCHENA 7. VAN BRONCKHORST 8. SALIHAMIDZIC 9. SOLARI 10. FERREIRA 11. HANS-JÖRG BUTT

I'd say Thuram will fit in quite nicely in Rood's team, Cannavaro likewise in Snow's. Where both managers go from there is anyone's guess because the rest of the defenders don't seem to be much of an improvement. Nedved to give Snow possibly the best attacking trio in the game, or Nedved to partner up with Roberto Carlos to form the most potent attacking left side in the game? Could see Cocu, Deco or Baraja all sneaking into one of those teams too...and can Snow really say no to the best keeper in the draft and a significant improvement on Dida? Plenty of options here.
 
Nedved or Cocu would be a significant improvement on Baggio. Cocu probably the right one to pick to keep some fight in that midfield.

Thuram-Cocu for Rood, Snow has plenty of options really. He's got the best wingers, a cracking striker, and can now fill in the blanks with Ralaks superb midfield core.

:eek:
 
Polaroid said:
In the later half of his career, Veron was often used as a playmaker starting moves from deep, but early in his career at Parma and Lazio, he excelled in a variety of roles and covered plenty of ground, his workrate was never in doubt to those who have seen him then.
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This was news to me I must admit, I was always under the impression that while Veron wasn't a liability like Valeron he still didn't involve himself much in the defensive phase at all. Was just watching the '99 Uefa Cup final there and it seems I was wrong, he pressed this high up the pitch constantly often in a very disciplined system:



Obviously it's not much in isolation but I was genuinely surprised. Was I wrong in thinking that the general impression was that he didn't work hard enough, or was that just the reaction to him not working out at United?

I've still not got a clue where I stand on this. Ayala's the safe option really, last time I went with Bergkamp and Cantona when I already had Stojkovic and Savicevic and I can see this backfiring similarly if I'm honest...especially up against Rivaldo, Schneider and Guardiola in the next match with Roberto Carlos bombing forward, I think I'll simply have to have Tacchinardi in there anyway so that Davids isn't overwhelmed.
 
So, no-one but Polaroid has any love for this side then? I do love the idea of having a midfield that you simply couldn't shut down, even with Schneider and Cocu working their bollocks off to close down Valeron and Veron you'd be giving Pirlo acres of space...it'd be nice to have seen on the pitch, at least. True fantasy football.

341952_Dream_Team.jpg
 
I think Shearer is a bit wasted in this tactic and it's a slow team.

I'm not a fan of a 4-4-2 diamond but your team pulls it off. You're right about what you say about you midfield.
Why don't you switch Pirlo and Davids?
 
The same reason Ancelotti never swapped Pirlo and Gattuso...Pirlo's there to pick the ball up off the defence and spray the ball about, he gets the most space to do this in a deeper, less crowded position and with his range of passing it has no real downside; and Davids isn't a holding midfielder he's there to provide a bit of energy all over the pitch. Sagnol's whipping that ball in back post constantly for Shearer and with Pirlo's set pieces there's surely going to be chances for Shearer to get his head on one of them. And with Larsson occupying the centre backs Shearer can drop off and fire in a typical 25-yarder. And when the defence is under pressure the easy ball is just to knock it up to Shearer (we all know Rio loves those 50 yard balls) for him to flick it on to Larsson in behind.
 
Ambrosini is always the deepest man on the pitch when he is playing. Ancelotti often played with Ambrosini, Pirlo and Gattuso at the same time.

It's fine that you think that way but I generally associate this position on a tactic screen with a defensive playmaker.
 
Brwned said:
I'd say Thuram will fit in quite nicely in Rood's team, Cannavaro likewise in Snow's. Where both managers go from there is anyone's guess because the rest of the defenders don't seem to be much of an improvement. Nedved to give Snow possibly the best attacking trio in the game, or Nedved to partner up with Roberto Carlos to form the most potent attacking left side in the game? Could see Cocu, Deco or Baraja all sneaking into one of those teams too...and can Snow really say no to the best keeper in the draft and a significant improvement on Dida? Plenty of options here.
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antohan said:
Nedved or Cocu would be a significant improvement on Baggio. Cocu probably the right one to pick to keep some fight in that midfield.

Thuram-Cocu for Rood, Snow has plenty of options really. He's got the best wingers, a cracking striker, and can now fill in the blanks with Ralaks superb midfield core.

:eek:
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Are you lads talking about Thuram coming into my team as a CB or RB? My defence is my biggest weakness and does need addressing - Cannavaro or Nedved would give me a 3rd Ballon D'or winner

Im not really looking any further than Nedved, Cannavaro, Cocu, Thuram and Buffon - I assume Snow is looking at the same options.
 
Brwned said:
I've still not got a clue where I stand on this. Ayala's the safe option really, last time I went with Bergkamp and Cantona when I already had Stojkovic and Savicevic and I can see this backfiring similarly if I'm honest...especially up against Rivaldo, Schneider and Guardiola in the next match with Roberto Carlos bombing forward, I think I'll simply have to have Tacchinardi in there anyway so that Davids isn't overwhelmed.
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I've followed Verón since his early pre-European days and after. He is quite capable of pressing in a disciplined way, not a great imposing tackle on him which is surprising for a guy his size., but all in all usually is at his best when devoid of those duties. He is the that needs time and space when on the ball, if you are pressing all the time then when your team recovers the ball you are bound to have the former pressee becoming a pressor (made up words, you get the idea). That is, he is not as effective a playmaker when required to chip in with pressing, but can do it. He definitely has a lot more workrate on him than Riquelme (not that it requires much! :lol:).

I do tend to agree with your assessment though: next game you'll probably still play Tacchinardi and the more you progress the more you will want midfielders who make a real contribution. I'm not sure you will ever play him to be honest.
 
abB9z5yac8.jpg


or

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Opinions?

Think I am leaning towards the first one... This would leave Edu and Denilson on the bench, not sure if either of them would fit in better?
 
Thuram as a right back certainly, it'd give you the best fullback combination in the tournament surely. Carr needs addressing much more than Gallas or Carragher. I know you'd love to be able to say you have 3 Ballon D'or winners but I don't think there's a big difference between the two defenders regardless of awards whereas there is a big difference between your right back and your centre backs. After that your Nedved-Cocu decision is similar to my Veron-Ayala - keep the balanced midfield or go for that extra bit of quality.

Dan - I'd go with the first one, although I'm not sure about Juninho Pernambucano that deep, I remember him as quite a passive midfielder which was the opposite of Juninho Paulista. Maybe just go a traditional Brazilian 4222 with both of them in the same line ahead of Gilberto and Makelele?
 
Rood said:
Are you lads talking about Thuram coming into my team as a CB or RB? My defence is my biggest weakness and does need addressing - Cannavaro or Nedved would give me a 3rd Ballon D'or winner

Im not really looking any further than Nedved, Cannavaro, Cocu, Thuram and Buffon - I assume Snow is looking at the same options.
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Thuram as RB mainly but you could use him as a CB in a game where the game is more central, as it is with Brwned. That option alone should make him more attractive than Cannavaro (screw Ballon d'Or, no one cares really). Would expect Snow to prioritise Thuram as well.

You also need an improvement on Baggio and badly. Nedved is very appealing but Cocu may be more appropriate for your side. In any case, if you pick Thuram first (which you should, that right side needs strengthening) then Snow will most likely make the choice for you.
 
DanNistelrooy said:
Think I am leaning towards the first one... This would leave Edu and Denilson on the bench, not sure if either of them would fit in better?
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First one ain't bad at all. I would still consider a third option which is your first one but with Gilberto and Pernambucano in central midfield rather than two deep-sitting DMs. Would be more robust I think.
 
Right, I pick Ayala. Pirlo was at his best with Gattuso covering a stupid amount of ground and Ambrosini doing the rest of the dirty work and Valeron needed to be carried defensively, so I have to go with Tacchinardi in there too. The only way to fit Veron in would've been to drop Valeron and I don't think that'd make a huge difference. So now it's whether I go for this, with Tacchinardi patrolling the area Rivaldo would be in:

342089_Juventus.jpg


or this, with both Davids and Tacchinardi tasked to pick up Rivaldo depending on the situation.

341422_Juventus.jpg
 
Brwned - do you mean something like:

abB9ABSakR.jpg


Is definitely an option, cheers for that.

Antohan - I think I am going to stick with the 2 DMs, more Brazilian like
 
Rood said:
Are you lads talking about Thuram coming into my team as a CB or RB? My defence is my biggest weakness and does need addressing - Cannavaro or Nedved would give me a 3rd Ballon D'or winner

Im not really looking any further than Nedved, Cannavaro, Cocu, Thuram and Buffon - I assume Snow is looking at the same options.
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Thuram is so much better than Carr that you have to take him. Especially when you haven't got much natural width down the right.
 
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