70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD

If Crustanoid gets 75% of the votes against Coldboy he'll go ahead of him

TBH, if he wins I think he should.

That is, I would only take VP to determine the first two but once these are settled the one who won the head to head should get first place.

Traditional goal difference would be different but this VP thing is a bit shit. As far as we have to use it tough, but once the top two are settled that way the better criterion should prevail for 1st and 2nd place.
 
It looks like KPS will win from Cal?
So I'm not sure how the head to head will work, the VP will be a better way.
 
It looks like KPS will win from Cal?
So I'm not sure how the head to head will work, the VP will be a better way.

What I'm saying is we use the VP where we absolutely need to (sort out the eliminated team, as there is NO other way except lots) but that the positions of the two going through are determined by their head-to-head result (as it is in fact a much better/fair basis).
 
Considering changing my formation for the game vs Rood to something like this:

338945_Denmark.jpg


I don't see his right side as much of an issue so playing Solari as a wing back could be good there, problem is he haven't played much there - so might lose votes just due to that.

Van Bronckhorst in there to mark Rivaldo basicly, not giving him a chance. Salihamidzic is moved a bit back to counter the brilliance that is Roberto Carlos.

Neved will play a free role, Baraja will try to get to Guardiola and hassle him as soon as possible(when Rood is on the ball), similar to how teams approach Xavi.

What do you guys think?
 
What I'm saying is we use the VP where we absolutely need to (sort out the eliminated team, as there is NO other way except lots) but that the positions of the two going through are determined by their head-to-head result (as it is in fact a much better/fair basis).

Right, so say Crustanoid wins this marginally (i.e. gets less than 50 vp) then because Cold Boy has more vp he goes through ahead of Crustanoid, and then regardless of how many vp kps88 gets from his game today he'll finish behind Cold Boy on the basis of head-to-head?
 
Confusing. Doesn't the fact I beat Crustanoid count for something?
 
Unnecessarily so. Basically what's happening then is if three teams are joint on points, the two teams with the highest vp qualify. Whoever won the game between these two goes top. If there's just two teams on the same points it goes down to head-to-head.
 
Unnecessarily so. Basically what's happening then is if three teams are joint on points, the two teams with the highest vp qualify. Whoever won the game between these two goes top. If there's just two teams on the same points it goes down to head-to-head.

That's exactly what I was suggesting. Well put.
 
Confusing. Doesn't the fact I beat Crustanoid count for something?

It does:

1) If Crustanoid doesn't beat Cold Boy you will have more points ;)
2) If somehow you and Crustanoid end up with the highest vp (unlikely)
 
Considering changing my formation for the game vs Rood to something like this

I thought you should push van Bronckhorst there, or Cocu. In practice Cocu would be more effective there (which is precisely why he was my Plan B after I missed out on Guardiola, cnuts the two of you!, better defensively but not as brilliant with those pinged balls) and van Bronckhorst would be more effective in Cocu's current position than in that hole. Not sure the caf will see it that way though. To some, it may look like an excessive weakening of your midfield to deal with Rivaldo. Be warned!

Solari is an interesting option but he would never be so deep and I buy the dealing with Carlos higher up as well. To most your backline will look like a car crash though with Cannavaro as the only saving grace. An alternative (not a great one maybe, who is your sub?) is to play Ferreira in a three and have Solari and Salihamidzic as wingbacks, which also lets you have Nedved more centrally (Solari being the greater threat on the wing IMO, all things considered).

The difference with Snow is you have the personnel to dominate and pass the ball around patiently in that midfield waiting for an opening for Inzaghi or a charge from Solari/Sali. You would certainly be playing a more conservative game.

Is it worth all the hassle to pick up Rivaldo? I believe it is. Many people will just say Rivaldo+Owen+Milito>Nedved+Inzaghi though.
 
I prefer your previous line up to be honest.

It is a viable option as, despite not having as much going forward, Ralaks would be tighter, more patient, more controlling than Snow and thus wouldn't leave as much space at the back.

Rood vs. Snow looked like manic end to end stuff with very different propositions, not the case here.
 
Cheers for the input, need to make my mind, still a few days.

I kind of regret picking a wide player who honestly isn't a vote winner compared to what I had already as my 12th pick, but oh well.

Might just go back to the normal one, can't decided between Solari or Simaro on the left honestly. Sali is needed because he works harder than either two and he is definately needed against Carlos, as Carlos v Ferreira would be suicide.
 
I've drawn up a experimental 4-4-2 for possible use in my final group game:

338985_Dream_Team.jpg


What does everyone reckon? I'll most likely stick with the 4-3-3 considering i'll be up against Davids, Mendieta and Veron, but i'm still keen to see how people rate the above formation. Thoughts?
 
Sali is needed because he works harder than either two and he is definately needed against Carlos, as Carlos v Ferreira would be suicide.

I'm surprised at the somewhat negative reaction Salihamidzic has received. For my money he is one of the best wingers in the whole draft. Outside of Giggs, Figo, Beckham and Overmars i can't really think of any better than him.
 
Cheers for the input, need to make my mind, still a few days.

I kind of regret picking a wide player who honestly isn't a vote winner compared to what I had already as my 12th pick, but oh well.

Might just go back to the normal one, can't decided between Solari or Simaro on the left honestly. Sali is needed because he works harder than either two and he is definately needed against Carlos, as Carlos v Ferreira would be suicide.

Although I agree that you need to make some sort of adjustment to deal with Rivaldo and Carlos, it almost appears too reactive. If you are going down that route, I'd probably swap Van Bronckhorst with Cocu. Prior to the two serious injuries he picked up, he was an excellent central midfielder (Van Bronckhorst) for Feyenoord and Rangers.

What does everyone reckon? I'll most likely stick with the 4-3-3 considering i'll be up against Davids, Mendieta and Veron, but i'm still keen to see how people rate the above formation. Thoughts?

Up against me you can take my comments with a pinch of salt, but my honest appraisal is that your midfield four is probably the most naturally balanced midfield four yet in the competition - no square pegs in round holes here. It does leave you slightly lighter in the middle albeit I'd be arguing that's a battle your team would lose whoever was selected.
 
I've drawn up a experimental 4-4-2 for possible use in my final group game:

What does everyone reckon? I'll most likely stick with the 4-3-3 considering i'll be up against Davids, Mendieta and Veron, but i'm still keen to see how people rate the above formation. Thoughts?

Depends on the oppo really. You have a very solid team and that's a viable option. Once you get a couple of players in you will take some beating.
 
Cheers for the input, need to make my mind, still a few days.

I kind of regret picking a wide player who honestly isn't a vote winner compared to what I had already as my 12th pick, but oh well.

Might just go back to the normal one, can't decided between Solari or Simaro on the left honestly. Sali is needed because he works harder than either two and he is definately needed against Carlos, as Carlos v Ferreira would be suicide.

Agree you need Sali vs Carlos. When I said Solari was the greater threat as wingback I meant that also relative to the oppo, his better fullback is there and he will keep him well busy/less adventuorus.

Re: Simao vs. Solari. Depends on where you will play them. If you go for wingbacks it's settled. If you go for your initial formation I would argue you may want your wingers more conservative/deeper in midfield (particularly on the right) which calls for Solari again. I would only put Simao if you somehow want to compensate for a rather quiet/less adventurous right wing.
 
I've drawn up a experimental 4-4-2 for possible use in my final group game:

338985_Dream_Team.jpg


What does everyone reckon? I'll most likely stick with the 4-3-3 considering i'll be up against Davids, Mendieta and Veron, but i'm still keen to see how people rate the above formation. Thoughts?

I think you possibly could've gone for that in the previous two games and it would've been a better side but yeah, against Davids, Mendieta and Veron I'd say you're asking for trouble.

Will we pick before the next round is drawn or after?

Before I think.
 
I'm surprised at the somewhat negative reaction Salihamidzic has received. For my money he is one of the best wingers in the whole draft. Outside of Giggs, Figo, Beckham and Overmars i can't really think of any better than him.

Probably because he's had a tough time holding down a first team spot the last 10 years or so. Also that he's more of a right midfielder than a winger. He was too high up for my taste. His qualities would have been waster there.
 
I've updated the text a little bit

I'm going for a very solid 4-2-3-1 formation that should be able to deal with any variation of 4-4-2. It's the Manchester United Europe playing style. That's how I roll.

If you have average full backs then you'll not want to play me. Threat from outside the box is as much as inside it. Lampard and Frings are both quite capable of shooting with great power. Even Petit has that ability.

My defense is composed of great veterans in both Champions and domestic league with their respected clubs as well as on the international stage.

Dida: Solid goalkeeper in his prime (which is all that matters) and voted the best goalkeeper in Europe when AC Milan won them CL in 2005. Highly successful in Brazil before he came to Europe and added to his trophy cabinet.

Phil Neville: Reliable player and was our very own John O'Shea before John O'Shea became John O'Shea. I use him at right back where I feel he's at his best. Did well at United and has become the captain of Everton.

Samuel Kuffour: Played many years in the heart of the Bayern Munchen defense along with Thomas Linke. They made up the best defensive pair in the Bundesliga and won the CL shortly after the famous final in '99. 2 times African player of the year (runner up) and the Ashford & Simpson song solid could well be a description for his defensive capabilities

Jens Nowotny: Leverkusen were a European powerhouse for two years with the likes of Nowotny and Ramelow in defense, Ballack and Ze Roberto in midfield. They're the reason for the teams almost success in every stage. Masters of runner-upery but that was not the defenses fault. Only player in my team who's not won a major trophy

Gabriel Heinze: He was purchased to United for being good at football. He certainly showed that and was voted our best player in the 04/05 season. A fan favorite before he became 2nd fiddle after a long term injury. But he moved on an went on to Real Madrid and then Marseille, picking up some trophies along the way. A veteran of every stage of football like his other defensive members.

Emmanuel Petit: He paired up with Vieira and won the WC and PL but before that he captained Monaco to a league title. His midfield prowess were rivaled only by his partner and our own midfield at the time and made for heated battles.

Torsten Frings: With Frings I've got a player with great vision and passing, hard tackling and a great shooter. He's like a mix between Pirlo and a regular German defensive midfielder. Sporting the hair, shooting and passing of Pirlo with the tackling, work rate and nationality of a German. Great fit next to Petit.

Luis Figo: I can't describe him properly without filling the page. Best player in the world in 2001 and one of the best almost his whole career. Not many have more trophies than him and he's achieved it with 3 different clubs. Simply a great great great player.

Frank Lampard: We love to hate him because he's just so damn good at scoring goals. Can't think of many midfielders that rival him in that aspect. An intelligent player who's a model of consistency. He plays in his favorite spot where I'll get the most out of him.

Ryan Giggs: It's Ryan fecking Giggs. Great now at age 38 but remember him in his prime? I certainly do

Patrick Kluivert: At birth him and Ruud decided to share their careers fairly. Patrick burst on to the scene with Ajax, who with their golden generation won it all. In his prime he played alone up front at Barcelona with Rivaldo behind him and that is the role he plays for me. In that role he managed to become the 4th ever top goal scorer for the Catalans (now 6th after Messi and Eto'o) and is still the top goal scorer for the Netherlands. He won the golden boot at Euro 2000 where the Dutch lost in penalties to Italy.

Substitute: Nicholas Anelka
A footballer who's been in an endless search to find himself. On his way he's won a number of league titles in different countries and a CL medal as well. Golden boot winner whilst at Chelsea he's a sub that can come on for any one of players really. Gives me the option of changing into a 4-4-2 with Frings, Petit or Ballack out. I could even play a three man defense and take out Neville if drastic measures are needed. Great bench option.

Footnote:
My team has 50 league medals, 9 CL medals, 1 EC winner and 2 WC winners, 1 Copa America and Libertadores winner and 96 different cup medals which include the Cup Winners Cup, FA Cup, various Super Cups etc.

Player honors they've got plenty of as well.

Thinking about tweaking my tactics a bit. People didn't like that there wasn't a man on Rivaldo, despite United playing that way every single time and no one has ever complained about that, so i left Petit to deal with Totti. Frings and Senna are similar players but Frings moves around more. Not sure thought if I'll change to this or keep my tactics as they were.

339085_Iceland.jpg
 
People didn't like that there wasn't a man on Rivaldo, despite United playing that way every single time and no one has ever complained about that

No one complained. It was heartstopping, every time he got the ball there wasn't a red out there who wasn't soiling his underwear, but it made for a fantastic footballing display. We just about managed to come up trumps so no one complained, much the opposite, we were pleased at having witnessed some unique games. now, had we lost...

What I don't get is why you are doing it now that you are not facing Rivaldo and Guardiola.

Zen could play a poor man's Guardiola (Sousa) and an inferior player to Rivaldo (Totti). Somehow I don't think he will and if he does it would be nowhere near as effective.
 
No one complained. It was heartstopping, every time he got the ball there wasn't a red out there who wasn't soiling his underwear, but it made for a fantastic footballing display. We just about managed to come up trumps so no one complained, much the opposite, we were pleased at having witnessed some unique games. now, had we lost...

What I don't get is why you are doing it now that you are not facing Rivaldo and Guardiola.

Zen could play a poor man's Guardiola (Sousa) and an inferior player to Rivaldo (Totti). Somehow I don't think he will and if he does it would be nowhere near as effective.

Because people have the illusion that there is this massive space open and that players are fixated on the position they start in. Team pressing and zonal defending is the tactic to deal with threats like Rivaldo. It's no good chucking a man at him and try to play 10vs10. This isn't handball and doesn't work like that.
I think it was rather the striker partners in front of Rivaldo rather than Guardiola that got Rood votes. With Elber only in front of Totti I'll stick with my normal tactics but I'll have this as a backup. Only need to c/p it from now on and people who view this thread will have a vision of how I can play as well without making substitutions.
 
Coldboy and KPS advance to the next round!
 
Before I think.

We probably could/should start picking as the last round goes through.

As far as second round fixtures goes, aren't we just following the tried and tested rule for international tournos?

1. 1st Group A vs. 2nd Group B
2. 1st Group B vs. 2nd Group A
3. 1st Group C vs. 2nd Group D
4. 1st Group D vs. 2nd Group C

Then:

Winner 1 vs. Winner 3
Winner 2 vs. Winner 4

And the winners playing the final.

That way:

1. Teams from the same group don't meet again until the final.

2. You cross paths with other groups progressively ensuring any group imbalance gets weeded out and better teams reach final stages (e.g. A meets B, then C or D, then A, B, C or D).

3. Teams know who they are likely to play along the way and prepare/strengthen accordingly (no different from real life).

4. Team strength doesn't get unbalanced (1st vs. 1st matchups would produce even better teams and 2nd vs. 2nd would lag further behind, a 2nd from a tough group would get the chance to pick from a 1st in another group, etc.).

Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
 
Because people have the illusion that there is this massive space open and that players are fixated on the position they start in.

It is not an illusion, that teamsheet you just put up has the same people but different roles. When you place Lampard in an advanced role behind the strikers you are indicating that, errr, he has an advanced attacking role behind the strikers, not a central midfield role with an anchor protecting the back four like you do here.

Can he and Petit drop deep? Sure, but you are giving us your shape and your shape indicates you have instructed players to do somethign entirely different. While a game is fluid, you always revert to A shape, otherwise you are out of control and too reliant on all 11 players being supermen who know what the others will do every time over 90 minutes!

Your shape as it was would play out in a very gung ho way. You would batter him (as I said, he would be 7-1-2 most of the time), you have superb players for doing that, but not for playing patiently. Lampard + Gerrard never worked for that reason, that midfield could not control games. Lampard, Giggs and Figo would be pushing up relentlessly and Petit and Frings would have to move further up to keep that pressing...

How would you not leave space in your half then?

Team pressing and zonal defending is the tactic to deal with threats like Rivaldo.
As I said to Ralaks, he could actually opt for that and pull it off because he wouldn't play at such manic pace, thus wouldn't leave all that space and his team pressing/zonal defending would be more effective.

It's no good chucking a man at him and try to play 10vs10. This isn't handball and doesn't work like that.
It does, teams do it all the time when they identify a major threat. Some choose not to and are set up in such a way that it isn't an issue, others just try to ride their luck. You did and couldn't get away with it. SAF in 98 tried to and did.

I think it was rather the striker partners in front of Rivaldo rather than Guardiola that got Rood votes.

Doubt it, there's not a chance he would counter you without Guardiola. Rivaldo could be left unmarked then as he would mostly be chasing desperate aimless long balls.
 
We probably could/should start picking as the last round goes through.

As far as second round fixtures goes, aren't we just following the tried and tested rule for international tournos?

1. 1st Group A vs. 2nd Group B
2. 1st Group B vs. 2nd Group A
3. 1st Group C vs. 2nd Group D
4. 1st Group D vs. 2nd Group C

Then:

Winner 1 vs. Winner 3
Winner 2 vs. Winner 4

And the winners playing the final.

That way:

1. Teams from the same group don't meet again until the final.

2. You cross paths with other groups progressively ensuring any group imbalance gets weeded out and better teams reach final stages (e.g. A meets B, then C or D, then A, B, C or D).

3. Teams know who they are likely to play along the way and prepare/strengthen accordingly (no different from real life).

4. Team strength doesn't get unbalanced (1st vs. 1st matchups would produce even better teams and 2nd vs. 2nd would lag further behind, a 2nd from a tough group would get the chance to pick from a 1st in another group, etc.).

Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

I think we should do a complete random. 1st vs 2nd. And then semis there are no seeds. Rather do it like the CL than WC. With the WC they have to think about travelling fans booking months in advance. Don't need that here.
If we do it randomly you can't be thinking ahead too much. You pick your players and then you get the draw instead of picking players based on who you are up against.
 
It is not an illusion, that teamsheet you just put up has the same people but different roles. When you place Lampard in an advanced role behind the strikers you are indicating that, errr, he has an advanced attacking role behind the strikers, not a central midfield role with an anchor protecting the back four like you do here.

Can he and Petit drop deep? Sure, but you are giving us your shape and your shape indicates you have instructed players to do somethign entirely different. While a game is fluid, you always revert to A shape, otherwise you are out of control and too reliant on all 11 players being supermen who know what the others will do every time over 90 minutes!

Your shape as it was would play out in a very gung ho way. You would batter him (as I said, he would be 7-1-2 most of the time), you have superb players for doing that, but not for playing patiently. Lampard + Gerrard never worked for that reason, that midfield could not control games. Lampard, Giggs and Figo would be pushing up relentlessly and Petit and Frings would have to move further up to keep that pressing...

How would you not leave space in your half then?

As I said to Ralaks, he could actually opt for that and pull it off because he wouldn't play at such manic pace, thus wouldn't leave all that space and his team pressing/zonal defending would be more effective.

It does, teams do it all the time when they identify a major threat. Some choose not to and are set up in such a way that it isn't an issue, others just try to ride their luck. You did and couldn't get away with it. SAF in 98 tried to and did.



Doubt it, there's not a chance he would counter you without Guardiola. Rivaldo could be left unmarked then as he would mostly be chasing desperate aimless long balls.

Every time you see a team sheet from Manchester United the midfield two are next to each other. One isn't below the other even though he plays like that. It's not like I have Makelele, De Jong or someone like that who can just play the one role.

SAF in 98 played 4-4-2. I don't know why you keep bringing up that game. I'm playing like SAF plays generally in Europe now. Not 12 years ago. Can't allow yourself to play like that anymore.

Why don't I use that extra man on Rivaldo? Again, zonal. Frings or Petit go at him, whoever is closest. How am I leaving space exactly. Are my wingers completely out of the defense? Space will open up, sure, you simply can't stop that if the team is good enough. But what then. He gets the ball, turns around. No one to his right and no one to his left. Is he going to waltz through my defense like he did almost never?

I don't believe you can win in these types of matches with no width. There's no team that does that.
 
I think we should do a complete random. 1st vs 2nd. And then semis there are no seeds. Rather do it like the CL than WC. With the WC they have to think about travelling fans booking months in advance. Don't need that here.
If we do it randomly you can't be thinking ahead too much. You pick your players and then you get the draw instead of picking players based on who you are up against.

So long as we make sure teams in the same group don't face each other again until the final, fine by me. Is there an app for that though?
 
So long as we make sure teams in the same group don't face each other again until the final, fine by me. Is there an app for that though?

You just use a random generator.

The winner from the groups each get a number from 1-4. Press the button. comes up 3. Do the same with the 2nd placed teams except you skip the one who was in the same group. And so on.
 
The 60s version used the classic WC system. That was very straightforward and transparent.
 
And I didn't have an opinion of it because I didn't qualify:)

I just think it adds more zaz to it with the unpredictability of random drafting.
 
And I didn't have an opinion of it because I didn't qualify:)

I just think it adds more zaz to it with the unpredictability of random drafting.

To be honest, the unpredictability is limited to three possible teams instead of one. And in the next round we would have to make sure teams from the same group don't meet, etc. It's a total mindfeck and, again, not transparent not once but twice (quarters and semis).

I personally would rather go with the usual system as was used last time around. It's the sort of thing we should have probably sorted earlier if we wanted to change as now people will be looking at who they do or don't get, etc.

I don't think it's a bad thing that people pick their two reinforcements with a clear path, adds that extra bit of tension between the best options for the game at hand, the best options long term, who you may pick next if you go through... That element of present and future squad management adds more zaz than random matchups in my eyes.

With good decision making it would also mean finalists will be stronger, which should make it more interesting.
 
Righto, traditional tournament style progression then. Assuming things stay as they are then it'll be:

1. Cold Boy v Dan Nistelrooy
2. kps88 v antohan

Cold Boy can pick now.
 
Pretty sure ColdBoy's gonna pick Keane from Cal's team.
 
Pretty sure ColdBoy's gonna pick Keane from Cal's team.

Not sure that would be his best first choice TBH. kps probably won't pick him, same holds for kps getting Beckham who I think Cold Boy won't pick.

Very different shapes and weaknesses, only one player I think both will want and other than that they will split the spoils in a way that will suit them well.

kps88 will look very good after this! :nervous: