Too late by then though
70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD
- Thread starter Cal?
- Start date
Too late by then though
Sorry still choosing a right back. Several of my picks have gone. This is a load of Arce
It really is slim pickens in the right back department. The reason for me picking one now instead of a center back.
If you're picking a right back....can i go ahead and post mine so I can leave? Not a defender so shouldn't hold you up.
I thought Gutierrez was the Spiderman.
Good call, lovely right foot.
You can then leave your last pick with me if by some reason the draft goes fast ahead in your absence.
I've got a few left in my mind. Tempted to pick one of them and move Babbel into the middle.
I choose Arce
1 Antohan: 1. ZIDANE 2. LUIS ENRIQUE 3. ZANETTI 4. SIMEONE 5. VIERI 6. FORLAN 7. MONTERO 8. RAMELOW 9. BROWN
2 DanNistelrooy: 1. RONALDO 2. LUCIO 3. CAFU 4. GILBERTO SILVA 5. PERNAMBUCANO 6. JUAN 7. JULIO CESAR 8. DENILSON 9. EDU
3 Rood: 1. RIVALDO 2. GUARDIOLA 3. R. CARLOS 4. GALLAS 5. OWEN 6. SCHNEIDER 7. DINO BAGGIO 8. MILITO 9. CARRAGHER
4 TheReligion: 1. NESTA 2. PUYOL 3. RUI COSTA 4. VAN BOMMEL 5. TREZEGUET 6. PERUZZI 7. AMBROSINI 8.ORTEGA 9. SERGINHO
5 Cal? 1. KEANE 2. BECKHAM 3. PIRES 4. CRESPO 5. SOLSKJAER 6. G. NEVILLE 7. GROSSO 8. PANUCCI 9. GUTI
6 Gio 1. DAVIDS 2. MENDIETA 3. VERON 4. AIMAR 5. CLAUDIO LOPEZ 6. MAKAAY 7. GAMARRA 8. BABBEL 9. ZIEGE
7 Cling Bak 1. HENRY 2. RIQUELME 3. OVERMARS 4. CARVALHO 5. VDS 6. ZE ROBERTO 7. EDMILSON 8. MCMANAMAN 9. CAPDEVILA
8 Jayvin 1. VIEIRA 2. AYALA 3. F. DE BOER 4. SCHOLL 5. JEREMIES 6. TOLDO 7. KLOSE 8. GIULY 9. PESSOTTO
9 kps88 1. SCHOLES 2. GATTUSO 3. CAMPBELL 4. LJUNGBERG 5. ANDY COLE 6. YORKE 7. CORDOBA 8. FERRER 9. OKOCHA
10 Ralaks 1. NEDVED, 2. CANNAVARO 3. COCU 4. BARAJA 5. INZAGHI 6. MARCHENA 7. VAN BRONCKHORST 8. SALIHAMIDZIC 9. SOLARI
11 Cold Boy 1. STAM, 2. BALLACK 3. SHEVCHENKO 4. LITMANEN 5. HAMANN 6. ABIDAL 7. WILTORD 8. LAUREN 9. DI NATALE
12 Zen 1. TOTTI, 2. THURAM 3. DECO 4. BUFFON 5. RAFAEL MARQUEZ 6. SENNA 7. SALGADO 8. HARRY KEWELL 9. KALADZE 10. ELBER
13 Crustanoid 1. RAÚL, 2. DEL PIERO, 3. VAN NISTELROOY 4. ALBERTINI 5. CAMORANESI 6. EMERSON 7. SIMIC 8. IULIANO 9. SERGI 10. ARCE
14 Brwned 1. PIRLO, 2. R.FERDINAND, 3. ZAMBROTTA 4. SHEARER 5. HYYPIA 6. VALERON 7. SAGNOL 8. LARSSON 9. RECOBA 10. RECBER
15 Team Brian 1. MAKELELE, 2. SEEDORF, 3. DROGBA 4. STANKOVIC 5. W.SAMUEL 6. HELGUERA 7. HASSELBAINK 8. REIZIGER 9. SORIN 10. CUDICINI
16 Snow 1. GIGGS, 2. FIGO, 3. LAMPARD, 4. PETIT, 5. KUFFOUR, 6. KLUIVERT, 7. HEINZE, 8. FRINGS, 9. DIDA, 10. P. NEVILLE
Zen - you've ruined everything
I remember Van Nistelrooy's face after it, he looked completely bewildered.
Brazilian strikers are ten-a-penny.
I don't agree with Guti being better than Aimar over a longer stretch either, he's had maybe 1 or 2 better seasons, but as stated by someone else, he's mostly been a squad player, Aimar has mostly been a key cog in how his teams work. Guti winning more doesn't make him better(didn't take part in any of the CL finals, barely played for Spain..)
Similar goes for Dida, he had a cracking defence in front of him at Milan, and once it started to wane/Nesta got a serious injury and he was asked to step up more, he couldn't on a consistent basis, and winning the world cup as a backup shouldn't mean much. By no means the worst keeper that will be picked, but I definitely stand by my 10th best choice, maybe 8th or 9th, I dunno, see who else gets picked(I'd have him over Cudicini and Recber anyway)
I only have 3-5 keepers of similar irk. I don't think we rate goalkeepers the same.
DDG or Linde?
DDG or Linde?
My thinking as well. I didn't even count Dida in my list for that reason.
He wasn't first choice in 2002.
He was at Milan
During the World Cup? Maybe... he sure wasn't on the pitch in Korea and Japan.
Dida was nominated for a Ballon d'or after his 02/03 season with Milan. That season he saved 3 penalties that won the game for Milan vs Juventus in the CL final.
The season after that he did really well. And as well after that. It's more than one season he played well. I just named his peak. And it's called a peak for a reason. After that he declined but he had a very good rep from his career in Brazil. Began with them winning the Fifa Youth World Cup. He was also called up to the World Cup in 98. So it's not just the one season he had where he was voted the best goalkeeper in Europe by his peers.
The season after that he did really well. And as well after that. It's more than one season he played well. I just named his peak. And it's called a peak for a reason. After that he declined but he had a very good rep from his career in Brazil. Began with them winning the Fifa Youth World Cup. He was also called up to the World Cup in 98. So it's not just the one season he had where he was voted the best goalkeeper in Europe by his peers.
My list has 3-4 goalkeepers I'd rather than Dida. Maybe five. But fair enough, he certainly was a good goalkeeper, to debate otherwise is a bit foolish.
That sounds about right. My reason I chose him above those others are his achievements and personal recognition he's gotten from his peers.
That being said the stand out goalkeepers had already been taken a long time ago and at least 9 goalkeepers will be picked before my last pick. Dida would have been one of them. So would all the goalkeepers of similar quality. Doesn't really matter which one of the I picked.
Goalkeepers is probably the least important in a draft anyway. Don't think I've ever seen a goalkeeper having a vote changing impact.
I do agree he had two very good seasons. 02-03, his first as a regular, finished in style with those penalty saves. 03-04 I think was his better one, probably building on the confidence/aura from that final. The next one was the one with the "got hit in the head" incident you mention... perfectly timed to make him concede 3 against Pool
I'm just pointing out two things:
1) He was not first choice in WC2002. In fairness, that means bugger all as the GK choice was based on other factors (he had been Scolari's keeper before, was a bible-thumping "good egg" who led the pre-match prayers at a time when discipline and dressing room harmony was an issue, etc). Dida was not even first choice at Milan yet though.
2) Bloopers: both before and after that period he made all sorts of ridiculous mistakes. Had a tendency to stop shots by taking the force of them, letting them bounce and then picking them up, which -unsurprisingly- resulted in several hilarious goals. I can't for the life of me shake that off my head.
I'm not trying to knock him, it's just that part of the fun of this is people sharing and exchanging views on selected players. I lived in Brazil for many years so sometimes I'll have a different perspective on the all-mighty Brazilians.
Dida was first choice at Milan as soon as he arrived. They bought him for that reason. They bought him after the WC and his first season was the 2002/2003 season.
He was 2nd choice at the 2002 WC and didn't play a single minute, true.
Bloopers. Something every goalkeeper left to be picked has with him.
I know you aren't knocking him. I know why he isn't held in a high regard because I remember his decline as well as any. What I thought was that it was about time. He always disappointed me by being good when I didn't rate him (mostly because I said it out loud and was too stubborn to take it back) but he's got the personal recognition by his peers over the keepers that are left and that's the main reason for my pick. There are about 5 keepers that I consider the same quality but I pretty much had to pick a keeper this round and his achievements gave him a nudge above the others.
He was 2nd choice at the 2002 WC and didn't play a single minute, true.
Bloopers. Something every goalkeeper left to be picked has with him.
I know you aren't knocking him. I know why he isn't held in a high regard because I remember his decline as well as any. What I thought was that it was about time. He always disappointed me by being good when I didn't rate him (mostly because I said it out loud and was too stubborn to take it back) but he's got the personal recognition by his peers over the keepers that are left and that's the main reason for my pick. There are about 5 keepers that I consider the same quality but I pretty much had to pick a keeper this round and his achievements gave him a nudge above the others.
I think goalies could make a bigger difference in this one(or the United one) than what I saw in the 60's one. There were far more great goalies from the 60's to cover all 12 teams(and possibly more), not sure if that's the case here.
He's got the recognition by his peers in a year he won a Champions League..and those same peers nominated Henry when he only played like 20 games in a season, and didn't nominate Totti when he scored 30 goals out of nowhere carrying Roma on his back like nothing.
Just sayin'.....these players don't actually really pay a great deal of attention sometimes. Good goalie, but let's not overrate him, definitely 1(and maybe 2) better still availble, both of who have been nominated for Ballon d'Or and FIFA WPOTY numerous times too.
Just sayin'.....these players don't actually really pay a great deal of attention sometimes. Good goalie, but let's not overrate him, definitely 1(and maybe 2) better still availble, both of who have been nominated for Ballon d'Or and FIFA WPOTY numerous times too.
How do you know this?
Apart from the fact that more votes take place than individual user comments in a match thread, how do you know that subconsciously people don't see it and mark them down?
It makes as much difference as any other position, to me.
I thought choosing Schmeichel as first pick last time would help me, but in the end, central midfielders, centre backs and marquee forwards were discussed more in the posts for each game as deciding factors
Well mainly due to the fact that I've never seen anyone write "Oh he has a worse goalkeeper so he won't get my vote.
It's always other positions, hell even when people had the best goalkeepers like Schmeichel no one commented on it. Obviously it's impossible to read minds but I've never seen any comments about goalkeepers. I'm sure if it had any vote winning effect I'm sure we'd have seen a comment by now.
Dida was playing for Corinthians (on loan from Milan) around the time we won the Treble so they sure didn't buy him for that season, he must have been going back and forth not quite convincing until Milan ran out of decent keepers.
I distinctly remember this because (much like you say) I didn't rate him, wondered why Milan had bought him, and then he made a few penalty saves in a big game and made me look silly.
Dida and penalty saves, that definitely is a constant. Ridicule is also a constant.
I know keepers are not flawless but, out of those left, you may have gone for the most obviously error prone.
Mind you, I'll probably end up with one of the many obscure keepers I rate highly
To be honest, I assessed keepers as relevant in the last retro tourno:
Step 1) "On their day any keeper can play a blinder", so I don't underrate the evidently lesser keeper and move on straight to Step 2.
Step 2) Is either keeper error-prone? In that case I have an ever so slight bias for the other team. If undecided, that may make the whole difference.
Step 3) If I'm completely on the fence on who may win the game I apply the logic that in knockout stages draws are decided by penalties. At that point Dida would be handy.
I'd have to judge each on their individual merits. I don't know what was in front of Schmeichel in any previous games.
I just don't think its ever ignored. Yes, all keepers have their good days, but I think if two teams are good and one has an outstanding keeper, I'm leaning that way for a clean sheet.
Just my opinion, I can't read minds either.
BTW, Cold_Boy has 4 hours left to make his pick
1 Antohan: 1. ZIDANE 2. LUIS ENRIQUE 3. ZANETTI 4. SIMEONE 5. VIERI 6. FORLAN 7. MONTERO 8. RAMELOW 9. BROWN
2 DanNistelrooy: 1. RONALDO 2. LUCIO 3. CAFU 4. GILBERTO SILVA 5. PERNAMBUCANO 6. JUAN 7. JULIO CESAR 8. DENILSON 9. EDU
3 Rood: 1. RIVALDO 2. GUARDIOLA 3. R. CARLOS 4. GALLAS 5. OWEN 6. SCHNEIDER 7. DINO BAGGIO 8. MILITO 9. CARRAGHER
4 TheReligion: 1. NESTA 2. PUYOL 3. RUI COSTA 4. VAN BOMMEL 5. TREZEGUET 6. PERUZZI 7. AMBROSINI 8.ORTEGA 9. SERGINHO
5 Cal? 1. KEANE 2. BECKHAM 3. PIRES 4. CRESPO 5. SOLSKJAER 6. G. NEVILLE 7. GROSSO 8. PANUCCI 9. GUTI
6 Gio 1. DAVIDS 2. MENDIETA 3. VERON 4. AIMAR 5. CLAUDIO LOPEZ 6. MAKAAY 7. GAMARRA 8. BABBEL 9. ZIEGE
7 Cling Bak 1. HENRY 2. RIQUELME 3. OVERMARS 4. CARVALHO 5. VDS 6. ZE ROBERTO 7. EDMILSON 8. MCMANAMAN 9. CAPDEVILA
8 Jayvin 1. VIEIRA 2. AYALA 3. F. DE BOER 4. SCHOLL 5. JEREMIES 6. TOLDO 7. KLOSE 8. GIULY 9. PESSOTTO
9 kps88 1. SCHOLES 2. GATTUSO 3. CAMPBELL 4. LJUNGBERG 5. ANDY COLE 6. YORKE 7. CORDOBA 8. FERRER 9. OKOCHA
10 Ralaks 1. NEDVED, 2. CANNAVARO 3. COCU 4. BARAJA 5. INZAGHI 6. MARCHENA 7. VAN BRONCKHORST 8. SALIHAMIDZIC 9. SOLARI
11 Cold Boy 1. STAM, 2. BALLACK 3. SHEVCHENKO 4. LITMANEN 5. HAMANN 6. ABIDAL 7. WILTORD 8. LAUREN 9. DI NATALE
12 Zen 1. TOTTI, 2. THURAM 3. DECO 4. BUFFON 5. RAFAEL MARQUEZ 6. SENNA 7. SALGADO 8. HARRY KEWELL 9. KALADZE 10. ELBER
13 Crustanoid 1. RAÚL, 2. DEL PIERO, 3. VAN NISTELROOY 4. ALBERTINI 5. CAMORANESI 6. EMERSON 7. SIMIC 8. IULIANO 9. SERGI 10. ARCE
14 Brwned 1. PIRLO, 2. R.FERDINAND, 3. ZAMBROTTA 4. SHEARER 5. HYYPIA 6. VALERON 7. SAGNOL 8. LARSSON 9. RECOBA 10. RECBER
15 Team Brian 1. MAKELELE, 2. SEEDORF, 3. DROGBA 4. STANKOVIC 5. W.SAMUEL 6. HELGUERA 7. HASSELBAINK 8. REIZIGER 9. SORIN 10. CUDICINI
16 Snow 1. GIGGS, 2. FIGO, 3. LAMPARD, 4. PETIT, 5. KUFFOUR, 6. KLUIVERT, 7. HEINZE, 8. FRINGS, 9. DIDA, 10. P. NEVILLE
1 Antohan: 1. ZIDANE 2. LUIS ENRIQUE 3. ZANETTI 4. SIMEONE 5. VIERI 6. FORLAN 7. MONTERO 8. RAMELOW 9. BROWN
2 DanNistelrooy: 1. RONALDO 2. LUCIO 3. CAFU 4. GILBERTO SILVA 5. PERNAMBUCANO 6. JUAN 7. JULIO CESAR 8. DENILSON 9. EDU
3 Rood: 1. RIVALDO 2. GUARDIOLA 3. R. CARLOS 4. GALLAS 5. OWEN 6. SCHNEIDER 7. DINO BAGGIO 8. MILITO 9. CARRAGHER
4 TheReligion: 1. NESTA 2. PUYOL 3. RUI COSTA 4. VAN BOMMEL 5. TREZEGUET 6. PERUZZI 7. AMBROSINI 8.ORTEGA 9. SERGINHO
5 Cal? 1. KEANE 2. BECKHAM 3. PIRES 4. CRESPO 5. SOLSKJAER 6. G. NEVILLE 7. GROSSO 8. PANUCCI 9. GUTI
6 Gio 1. DAVIDS 2. MENDIETA 3. VERON 4. AIMAR 5. CLAUDIO LOPEZ 6. MAKAAY 7. GAMARRA 8. BABBEL 9. ZIEGE
7 Cling Bak 1. HENRY 2. RIQUELME 3. OVERMARS 4. CARVALHO 5. VDS 6. ZE ROBERTO 7. EDMILSON 8. MCMANAMAN 9. CAPDEVILA
8 Jayvin 1. VIEIRA 2. AYALA 3. F. DE BOER 4. SCHOLL 5. JEREMIES 6. TOLDO 7. KLOSE 8. GIULY 9. PESSOTTO
9 kps88 1. SCHOLES 2. GATTUSO 3. CAMPBELL 4. LJUNGBERG 5. ANDY COLE 6. YORKE 7. CORDOBA 8. FERRER 9. OKOCHA
10 Ralaks 1. NEDVED, 2. CANNAVARO 3. COCU 4. BARAJA 5. INZAGHI 6. MARCHENA 7. VAN BRONCKHORST 8. SALIHAMIDZIC 9. SOLARI
11 Cold Boy 1. STAM, 2. BALLACK 3. SHEVCHENKO 4. LITMANEN 5. HAMANN 6. ABIDAL 7. WILTORD 8. LAUREN 9. DI NATALE
12 Zen 1. TOTTI, 2. THURAM 3. DECO 4. BUFFON 5. RAFAEL MARQUEZ 6. SENNA 7. SALGADO 8. HARRY KEWELL 9. KALADZE 10. ELBER
13 Crustanoid 1. RAÚL, 2. DEL PIERO, 3. VAN NISTELROOY 4. ALBERTINI 5. CAMORANESI 6. EMERSON 7. SIMIC 8. IULIANO 9. SERGI 10. ARCE
14 Brwned 1. PIRLO, 2. R.FERDINAND, 3. ZAMBROTTA 4. SHEARER 5. HYYPIA 6. VALERON 7. SAGNOL 8. LARSSON 9. RECOBA 10. RECBER
15 Team Brian 1. MAKELELE, 2. SEEDORF, 3. DROGBA 4. STANKOVIC 5. W.SAMUEL 6. HELGUERA 7. HASSELBAINK 8. REIZIGER 9. SORIN 10. CUDICINI
16 Snow 1. GIGGS, 2. FIGO, 3. LAMPARD, 4. PETIT, 5. KUFFOUR, 6. KLUIVERT, 7. HEINZE, 8. FRINGS, 9. DIDA, 10. P. NEVILLE
I'd have to judge each on their individual merits. I don't know what was in front of Schmeichel in any previous games.
I just don't think its ever ignored. Yes, all keepers have their good days, but I think if two teams are good and one has an outstanding keeper, I'm leaning that way for a clean sheet.
Just my opinion, I can't read minds either.
Fair enough, it obviously differs from person to person. Personally the only thing I think that matters much is if the goalkeeper is notoriously error-prone, if not the players in front of him have a bigger impact.
However error prone the keepers may be the errors are in the low ranges of happenings. At his best I rate Dida a long with Valdes. Both keepers are error prone but good enough for their respected teams that have won the CL more than once so good enough for me really.