RE people in the same group voting on other matches in the group....I can't see the harm in it. How would you know what others are going to vote - there isn't much chance of influencing the final outcome. I say you just vote with your own individual instincts / opinion. After all its only a game
50s Retro Football Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
Yes. I'm for it. Gentleman's code. See no problem with that.
I'm in agreeance with the majority, reckon voting on any game but your own is ok.
Carte blanche in regards to the voting system for me. like others have mentioned, we need all the voters we can get.
TBH, I don't think it makes any difference except maybe in the last game as right now there are no clear standout teams. Even then, you could also make an argument for the votes fom the teams in the other group to be more influenced (as they may well determine who they face next).
Much ado about nothing. Fact is we've all been onto this for a good week or so and it would be a shame if we don't get involved and leave the final outcomes entirely to people randomly showing up and providing no feedback whatsoever as to why they voted in a certain way.
Much ado about nothing. Fact is we've all been onto this for a good week or so and it would be a shame if we don't get involved and leave the final outcomes entirely to people randomly showing up and providing no feedback whatsoever as to why they voted in a certain way.
Get it open. Otherwise it's like playing a World Cup in empty stadiums.
Round 1 Group Standings
What can you tell me about Mario Sergio, antohan? Was watching this game and he looked classy as hell but I'd never heard of him before.
I'm astounded at the amount of South American games you can get on youtube from the 70s and onwards, was just reading through this list and there's full games of every team from as far back as the mid 70s, many of them being important finals against great teams. Downloaded about 40-odd of them, I'll never get around to watching them all but useful to have all the same.
I'm astounded at the amount of South American games you can get on youtube from the 70s and onwards, was just reading through this list and there's full games of every team from as far back as the mid 70s, many of them being important finals against great teams. Downloaded about 40-odd of them, I'll never get around to watching them all but useful to have all the same.
Nothing really. All I remember about that Gremio side are the two Libertadores final games where they weren't particularly classy and just kicked the shit out of us throughout. They managed to play out a draw in Montevideo (1-1, Morena scored) forcing us to take the initiative in Brazil due to the away goals rule. It was a rather one-sided display, but with Peñarol having to commit to attack and open at the back they won 2-1 (Morena scored again).
The standout thing about that side was the contrast with Brazil's 82 side. Brazil in 82 played pretty football and got nothing, Gremio in 83 played rough-up defence-first football (with De León as their marshall) and won the Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup.
It only reinforced the results-first brigade. In 86 Brazil got nothing again, while Sao Paulo built their local success on a solid defence (Pereyra-Oscar). I stress this as the role De León and Pereyra played should not be underestimated. While the "results-first" brigade was accused of promoting anti-football, De León and Pereyra were the prime examples cited of how you could defend properly AND be a good footballer.
Santana would be accused of "playing pretty but winning nothing" for years. By the time he managed that great Sao Paulo side of the early 90s, Brazilian football had started to evolve towards a more result-oriented approach, crowned in 94' with their first WC in 24 years. Who did Santana hire as a defence coach for Cafú, Edmilson and others at Sao Paulo? Darío Pereyra.
Updated table just so everyone knows where they stand. Pretty sure it's accurate. 
Thanks for the updated table, makes good reading atm.
Was going to do that myself, just got lazy! Appreciate it Jayvin. Bit of a change for Polaroid!
In reality because we did the whole 4 teams qualify thing - which I agree was a cop-out, and the fact the newbies have generated so much more interest through a simple knockout tournament backs that up - you're not going to benefit much. Finish 1st and you still could end up against antohan. I can finish second last and I'll still get first pick from the losing team.
Thanks for the updated table, makes good reading atm.
In reality because we did the whole 4 teams qualify thing - which I agree was a cop-out, and the fact the newbies have generated so much more interest through a simple knockout tournament backs that up - you're not going to benefit much. Finish 1st and you still could end up against antohan. I can finish second last and I'll still get first pick from the losing team.
The picking in reverse order is a bit of a bummer for us stuck in the middle who didn't get first dibs either way. It is fair I guess, although it is great to have first dibs with a settled squad and after 4 games showing you what to prioritise!!!
Re TDon playing me, doesn't look like it. The idea was 1st vs. 4th and 2nd vs. 3rd across groups.
Then it would be reasonable for the winners of 2nd vs 3rd to play winners of 1st vs 4th (pairing 1st from one group with 2nd from the other, whatever the outcome). Thus the 1st placed teams only get to meet in the final (if at all) while 2nd placed teams get a chance to take out the 1st placed from the other group. Should ensure strongest teams arrive at the final on either side of the fixture really. I'm easy about it, but it would be the way a tournament fixture would be set up.
In a way, it's a bummer to be first if you ask me, 4th placed teams are bound to have less quality to pick from... Mmmm, now I'm considering throwing my game against Gio
Group B Final Rankings:
We now pick one player each from Nani Nana, in this order:
We now pick one player each from Nani Nana, in this order:
- Brwned
- Crustanoid
- Interval Level
- TDon69
I have the option of adding in Tardelli and making it the most difficult midfield three to beat, but lacking in creativity. I could bring in Giresse and go for a proper 4222 with him and Dirceu. Or the simple option and bring in McGrath for Butcher.
Opinions?
Opinions?
bummer, I thought winning the group would give me an advantage. why are we only picking from our own groups though. we should just put the 22 players left into a mini draft.
That's probably what we are doing and I've just not been paying attention to what antohan's said again! Definitely should be doing that. That'd mean I could go for one of Cabrini or Rummenigge.
Your advantage is you get to play either Duffy or Polaroid, which in theory should be easier.
We should pick from 22 here, although if you want to go with this do so, by all means, it would give me first or second dibs within my group
The one thing I've been thinking through is the semifinal draw. That's probably best left to a random draw as if we knew we are playing the winner of X QF game in advance it will make it rather biased and we need as many of us to vote as possible. Better not to know until the QFs are done. In any case, after three picks (this and post QF) the notion of first placed teams being "stronger" goes out of the window entirely.
We should do the draw before picking though. Same as here, I was surprised you guys were considering picking without knowing your opponent yet!
It's basically either a choice of going for creating the best front three in the draft:
Or getting rid of my weakest link (christ knows what came over me picking Tarantini over Gordillo, Demyanenko and others...good player that he was) and replacing him with the best all-round left back in it:
And if I end up sneaking past Jayvin it'd be getting rid of my two worst players and replacing them with arguably the two best in their position...Camacho-Scirea-Vierchowod-Kaltz. I'd love to have such a balanced back four but it just seems like a waste to go for Camacho over Rummenigge when there's so few dangerous right wingers to cause much damage anyway. I'm pretty sure I'm going for Rummenigge based almost entirely on the fact that Cling Bak won the last one based on the Henry-Ronaldo-Overmars trident while ignoring Capdevila right the way through. Even Candela wasn't an outstanding left back now that I think of it.
Or getting rid of my weakest link (christ knows what came over me picking Tarantini over Gordillo, Demyanenko and others...good player that he was) and replacing him with the best all-round left back in it:
And if I end up sneaking past Jayvin it'd be getting rid of my two worst players and replacing them with arguably the two best in their position...Camacho-Scirea-Vierchowod-Kaltz. I'd love to have such a balanced back four but it just seems like a waste to go for Camacho over Rummenigge when there's so few dangerous right wingers to cause much damage anyway. I'm pretty sure I'm going for Rummenigge based almost entirely on the fact that Cling Bak won the last one based on the Henry-Ronaldo-Overmars trident while ignoring Capdevila right the way through. Even Candela wasn't an outstanding left back now that I think of it.
TBH, you would be best served getting a proper left winger but there are none available.
I guess it is accurate to conclude if you beat Jayvin your defence will be well supplied with talent.
Rummenigge looks like an obvious choice, although not sure about that front three. You don't really have width on the left there (we've been there before when you had Coppell and Bettega on either side).
I'm impartial here as he wouldn't last until my turn, Crust is a sucker for frontmen!!!!
Giresse may well be your man, although IL probably needs him a lot more.
I guess it is accurate to conclude if you beat Jayvin your defence will be well supplied with talent.
Rummenigge looks like an obvious choice, although not sure about that front three. You don't really have width on the left there (we've been there before when you had Coppell and Bettega on either side).
I'm impartial here as he wouldn't last until my turn, Crust is a sucker for frontmen!!!!
Giresse may well be your man, although IL probably needs him a lot more.
I'm going for Rummenigge. Every other time I've mulled over going for the more balanced option, this time I'm just going for attack.
Might just go for a 442 and drop Bettega, we'll see.
Might just go for a 442 and drop Bettega, we'll see.
It's going in reverse order for picks so it goes:
Brwned - Rummenigge
Crustanoid -
Interval Level -
antohan -
Gio -
TDon69 -
Duffy -
Jayvin -
Brwned - Rummenigge
Crustanoid -
Interval Level -
antohan -
Gio -
TDon69 -
Duffy -
Jayvin -
Shame the 22 were open to all (which is the right way to go). You now have the two frontmen I would have definitely considered benching Morena for on a football (non-marketing) basis alone. Sanchez being a definite and Rummenigge one to strongly consider relative to the game at hand.
Can't see how I would get away with a little known striker all the way to the end, so unless I meet (and beat!) you on the way there... I'm probably stuffed
Kempes and Blokhin aren't half-bad anyway!
Different players though. At that point it would really be about who I'm playing against.
Morena is unquestionably the better goalscorer for a game where I dominate. Kempes offers more in the buildup through the middle if midfield domination is not clear. Blokhin on the counter... can you imagine Boniek, Simonsen and Blokhin as a frontline playing on the counter?
Sanchez and Rossi are the ones that are more like like-for-like replacements. Sánchez having no major tactical connotations would be a dead cert. Morena slightly more powerful/physical and better in the air, but Sanchez was just incredible. Rossi had a good World Cup, other than that is not half the deadly goalscorer Morena was. I do wonder whether I should just pick the name though.
Rummenigge was immense, but a different type of player altogether. The most complete forward in this generation. I would have been better off with Duffy out as Blokhin may well have slipped through, while Rummenigge was never going to.
The 22 players up for draft...
MCGRATH
TARDELLI
GIRESSE
ROGER MILLA
AUGENTHALER
COLLOVATI
HOENESS
SANTILLANA
ALTOBELLI
GALLEGO
MCILROY
ARCONADA
RUMMENIGGE (Brwned)
KEMPES
CEREZO
CEULEMANS
SCHUMACHER
CAMACHO
BONHOF
SUSIC
BESSONOV
REINALDO
ONDRUS
MILLER
MCGRATH
TARDELLI
GIRESSE
ROGER MILLA
AUGENTHALER
COLLOVATI
HOENESS
SANTILLANA
ALTOBELLI
GALLEGO
MCILROY
ARCONADA
RUMMENIGGE (Brwned)
KEMPES
CEREZO
CEULEMANS
SCHUMACHER
CAMACHO
BONHOF
SUSIC
BESSONOV
REINALDO
ONDRUS
MILLER
I'll go for Tardelli
I expected you to do that, will add some needed steel in your midfield. Looks like Stielike hasn't been enough so far.
Come on IL, I want to see what options I'm left with
I'm confused between Giresse or Kempes. Giresse is more central but what do people think if I drop Cueto and play Kempes as a nos 10?
In a 4231-type setup, or Kempes even deeper than that? I think you'd want to keep him as close to Rossi as possible and see no reason why not to. If anything I'd say Kempes was more central, Giresse was generally the only player from that magic square that pulled out wide. And I'd still keep Cueto as a deep-lying playmaker alongside Breitner.
To be honest your attack looks absolutely fine to me, you just need someone to ensure you'd get a bit more control - someone like Cerezo.
To be honest your attack looks absolutely fine to me, you just need someone to ensure you'd get a bit more control - someone like Cerezo.
I actually came in looking for a central guy. But I had decent success playing Wilkins with Breitner.
Yes, I was thinking a 4-2-3-1 with Wilkins and Breitner in the 2 and Kempes essentially operating as a central attacking/ in the hole striker. This can be converted into a 3-5-2 by dropping Weisse and introducing Pezzey. ie
----Migueli - Pezzey - Passarella
--------Breitner-----Wilkins---
Lato------------Cueto--------Conti
-------------Kempes---------------
-------------Rossi------------------
Who will I be playing against in the next round?
That's that then. I'm taking the plunge and going for Toninho Cerezo.
Where are the match threads gone? I was looking up ILs various formations vs. TDon but they are no longer there.
I thought IL would make this pick easier for me. Now I'm in two minds as to whether to pick Kempes or McGrath...
If I pick McGrath I am left with no other centreforward option until after a *potential* semifinal, but my CB pair would be sorted once I pick Passarella.
If I pick Kempes my CB pair would look odd and he is no real improvement (except in very specific circumstances) on my current one.
I'm comfortable with the competence level from my two CBs and striker, but voters probably won't.
Thoughts?
I thought IL would make this pick easier for me. Now I'm in two minds as to whether to pick Kempes or McGrath...
If I pick McGrath I am left with no other centreforward option until after a *potential* semifinal, but my CB pair would be sorted once I pick Passarella.
If I pick Kempes my CB pair would look odd and he is no real improvement (except in very specific circumstances) on my current one.
I'm comfortable with the competence level from my two CBs and striker, but voters probably won't.
Thoughts?
I had Kempes actually typed into the quick reply box, with my finger hovering over the mouse to click 'reply'.... before fighting off the urge and doing the sensible thing
You see? That's partly my problem here. Kempes would be a great name on the teamsheet, but no significant improvement (or even the opposite).
You clearly aren't seen as particularly incisive upfront and it would have helped there, but in fact there's no real major difference with Dalglish or Valdano (in particular). He has a somewhat better scoring record in 1-2 seasons but not significantly so.
McGrath on the other hand... I would be happy with him all the way to the end.
I'd go for McGrath if I was you. United bias aside, he inspires instant confidence when you glance at whichever defensive lineup he's in
Yeah, and no other defender can claim to have marked Shearer out of a game while drunk. Legend.
Sorry Gio. TDon will be well chuffed though.
Sorry Gio. TDon will be well chuffed though.
For me that's your only area of weakness and not having a holding midfielder is certainly a weakness, while Cerezo offered plenty going forward along with that. Top player. Up against Schuster and Falcao you need someone to stop them just strolling through.