3-4-3 Ain’t it

gulli_G said:
You can play as many formations as you like, when will the penny drop? It is the players. Papering over the cracks will not work anymore as the league has got much better now, with the likes of Forest, Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth not only good, but better than us.
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Ofcourse it’s the players but we have no money to replace them so Amorim has to work with them for now.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
Yeah. ETH, Onana and poor set piece defending has nothing to do with that. It's 3-4-3.
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Never said that. I'm saying people are entitled to be upset, and going into games knowing the opposition will be licking their lips at the square peg/round hole structure of our team isnt helping yet.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
I don’t think Martinez is the best wingback there is, not at all. But as we can buy no one without selling, I do think he could be better than Dalot or Malacia who play there now. He is aggressive, has a good passing range, can defend against a winger, can play left back and can play in midfield. Maybe worth a try, has to be better than Dalot and Malacia. Keep doing the same thing is not helping as well.
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One of the reasons why we struggle so much with this system is that our wingplayers don't offer any threat forward and do not support the rest of the team by offering width and therefor a less cluttered middle of the park. The idea that we should place Martinez there is creative but it doesn't make sense. He is not a left back just because he played there once or twice. If we want to get this going, how about Dalot and Martinez starting to focus a little more, Dalot to be more engaged and willing to challenge his opponent and Martinez more ready to have his back when he does so.

We can't just walk around put some "not good enough" stickers to this player and that one, roll the dice with position switch experiments and then really really hope for the summer to finally bring new players in. Martinez is a CB. If he can't play there then don't play him at all.
 
gaffs said:
The objective for MUFC is to be competing for the big competitions. We need to get in a place where we can look to win our 21st league title. We have not even been close for a decade. So we are not going to get there by following the Ten Hag "ad hoc" football style where you hope that a player like Bruno, Garnacho

Systems with well organised, fit and well drilled players win football games these days - as shown by Bournemouth, Brighton, Forest etc. Add some world class players to that and you have a team that can compete for titles. We have had many top quality players (at least they were when they joined) but never a coach who could get them to play in a winning system. So after a while, these top players become unfit, unmotivated and start to look bang average.

7th or 17th this season, it really doesn't matter. We all know the team needs an overhaul (or at the least a pre season where there team learns a modern football system) and this would have been the case with Amorim or under any other top class manager that happened to have played a more traditional 433.

Now we all hoped there would be more of a bounce when Amorim came in, but it has not happened. Is is because of the system? I don't think so because im seeing individual errors costing us more than anything.

And no, he is not getting sacked. I believe the club are going to stay the course with him. Everyone insure and outside the club knows a drastic change is needed. It won't be fixed by a manager coming in and turning it around overnight. This is not like Klopp handing over very good team to Slot who, now some of Klopps signings have bedded in, have kicked on.
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Well said. It is a little disheartening to still see so much fans, who carry some shortsighted entitlement with them even though we experienced so much that should have had a humbling effect.
 
We should be playing Mainoo, Ugarte and Bruno as a 3, Amad and Garnacho wide and Hojlund up top. That maximises our potential. Figure out the rest at the back.
 
It does not matter what kind of system you play with this lot...slow..lazy..no pace and no will or workrate. Systems are not the main problem...there would not be a single player from us that would get into the City or Arsenal teams let alone many more top teams in Europe. It is just astounding how many bad players we have been able to sign..it´s either a curse or a very black joke at the best.
 
BluesJr said:
We should be playing Mainoo, Ugarte and Bruno as a 3, Amad and Garnacho wide and Hojlund up top. That maximises our potential. Figure out the rest at the back.
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It wouldn't even take that much to achieve this. We did it in the second half against Viktoria Pilsen.

You literally have the #10s play on the outside and provide the width rather than the wingbacks, and have the wingbacks invert and play in the half space where the #10s are currently playing. That's it. That's the sum total of the tactical change needed.
 
#07 said:
It wouldn't even take that much to achieve this. We did it in the second half against Viktoria Pilsen.

You literally have the #10s play on the outside and provide the width rather than the wingbacks, and have the wingbacks invert and play in the half space where the #10s are currently playing. That's it. That's the sum total of the tactical change needed.
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Not sure there is a concept of inverted wingbacks. I also think thats just a change for changes sake. And if we had players who would be able to contribute on the flanks, we wouldn't have struggled there with ETH.
 
#07 said:
It wouldn't even take that much to achieve this. We did it in the second half against Viktoria Pilsen.

You literally have the #10s play on the outside and provide the width rather than the wingbacks, and have the wingbacks invert and play in the half space where the #10s are currently playing. That's it. That's the sum total of the tactical change needed.
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So go from 3421 to standard 343?
 
It would be insane to get a manager in with a clear vision and tactics that have always worked for his teams and then suddenly demand that he stops using his tactics to suit the players. Then we could just as well kept Ten Hag for that matter.

The problem is not the formation and definitely not Amorim. It’s the players who don’t know what it means to play for man united and they are just not good enough.

We should back this manager and his tactics!
 
giggs-beckham said:
So go from 3421 to standard 343?
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That's basically what he did that night in the Europa League. Garnacho was playing outside of Dalot in possession, however Dalot dropped into the backline for defensive transitions. I think it would help a lot of our players to do something a bit more familiar to them.
 
BluesJr said:
We need 3 in the middle. You cannot survive in the PL with 2.
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I'm no expert on his system but there will be at least 3 in the middle won't there?

Two CM's and two 10's, we shouldn't be outnumbered in the middle of the pitch.

If anything it'd be the wide areas where the numbers are low.
 
Marwood said:
I'm no expert on his system but there will be at least 3 in the middle won't there?

Two CM's and two 10's, we shouldn't be outnumbered in the middle of the pitch.

If anything it'd be the wide areas where the numbers are low.
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One of the main things about our system, 4 in the middle.
 
Amauri said:
It would be insane to get a manager in with a clear vision and tactics that have always worked for his teams and then suddenly demand that he stops using his tactics to suit the players. Then we could just as well kept Ten Hag for that matter.

The problem is not the formation and definitely not Amorim. It’s the players who don’t know what it means to play for man united and they are just not good enough.

We should back this manager and his tactics!
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Always worked for his teams - ie worked at Sporting Lisbon in a relatively weak league?
 
Seen this online and 100% agree:

Antonio Conte won the Premier League with a 3-4-3 formation (or even a back 5).

Thomas Tuchel won the UCL with a 3-4-3 formation.

Xabi Alonso made Bayern Leverkusen invicible with a 3-4-3 formation (3-4-2-1).

Simeone Inzaghi won the Scudetto with a 3-4-3 formation and advanced to the UCL Final.

Ruben Amorim transformed Sporting Lisbon with a 3-4-3 and also did well in the UCL.

Pep Guardiola sometimes plays with a back three formation at Man City.

But I'm meant to believe Ruben Amorim 3-4-3
formation can't work in the Premier League at
Manchester United because of this average and
lazy squad at United.

It's best we set the record straight at this club,
because we've seen every type of formation since SAF before Amorim and all previous managers still got sacked.

Trust & Embrace the process. #MUFC
 
BluesJr said:
We need 3 in the middle. You cannot survive in the PL with 2.
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This is true, but somehow we don't do it.

Yes, we have 3 named or even 4 supposedly 'in the middle', but they don't stay there, so when we lose the ball in their last third or just outside their box, the opposition just run at us straight down the middle, they don't even 'bob and weave' they just go full pelt into the gap we leave.
I've began to think it's me.... seeing illusions.... why can nobody else see the gap, at times you could have driven a coach and horses down the centre of the pitch.
Admittedly Ugarte has been very good lately at putting 'his foot in' (legally) just outside their box, but if they pass him its just follow the 'yellow brick road' for our opponents to score.

Wonder how much it would cost to get Mary Poppins in the middle with Ugarte and Mainoo?
 
gulli_G said:
It's best we set the record straight at this club, because we've seen every type of formation since SAF before Amorim and all previous bosses still got sacked.
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And all managers had to revert back to 4-2-3-1 and drop their principles because the players were to dumb and shit, not anymore. The manager is in charge now, not the players anymore. Even if we finish 14th this season because the players don’t understand what to do, sell them or let them go in the next couple of years. You either join Amorim or you’re gone.
 
3-4-3 isn't adopted by any of Europes top club teams. Why?

If we put all of our eggs in this basket and start offloading talented players such as Garnacho to accommodate specialist wing backs we could end up failing and end up back to square one 2 years from now.

Amorim as good as he is needs to be flexible depending on our squad, the opposition, opponents tactics, and so on. I would doubt any manager rocks up at a club and plays a formation to death regardless of results.
 
NZT-One said:
One of the reasons why we struggle so much with this system is that our wingplayers don't offer any threat forward and do not support the rest of the team by offering width and therefor a less cluttered middle of the park. The idea that we should place Martinez there is creative but it doesn't make sense. He is not a left back just because he played there once or twice. If we want to get this going, how about Dalot and Martinez starting to focus a little more, Dalot to be more engaged and willing to challenge his opponent and Martinez more ready to have his back when he does so.

We can't just walk around put some "not good enough" stickers to this player and that one, roll the dice with position switch experiments and then really really hope for the summer to finally bring new players in. Martinez is a CB. If he can't play there then don't play him at all.
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Dalot is really not capable of beating his defender. Once in a while he'll get lucky and get a cross in (not a very good cross with his left). And Martinez would be the exact same...can't beat a defender. We have to buy or train Garnacho in that role.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
And all managers had to revert back to 4-2-3-1 and drop their principles because the players were to dumb and shit, not anymore. The manager is in charge now, not the players anymore. Even if we finish 14th this season because the players don’t understand what to do, sell them or let them go in the next couple of years. You either join Amorim or you’re gone.
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This
 
RedCoffee said:
3-4-3 isn't adopted by any of Europes top club teams. Why?

If we put all of our eggs in this basket and start offloading talented players such as Garnacho to accommodate specialist wing backs we could end up failing and end up back to square one 2 years from now.

Amorim as good as he is needs to be flexible depending on our squad, the opposition, opponents tactics, and so on. I would doubt any manager rocks up at a club and plays a formation to death regardless of results.
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So Inter or Bayern Leverkusen are not top teams? Chelsea when they last won the CL are not a top team? Heck even Sporting under Amorim were up there with Liverpool at the tope of the CL rankings. Seemky other post for more examples.
 
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RedCoffee said:
3-4-3 isn't adopted by any of Europes top club teams. Why?

If we put all of our eggs in this basket and start offloading talented players such as Garnacho to accommodate specialist wing backs we could end up failing and end up back to square one 2 years from now.

Amorim as good as he is needs to be flexible depending on our squad, the opposition, opponents tactics, and so on. I would doubt any manager rocks up at a club and plays a formation to death regardless of results.
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How many top managers don't play their style?
 
BluesJr said:
We should be playing Mainoo, Ugarte and Bruno as a 3, Amad and Garnacho wide and Hojlund up top. That maximises our potential. Figure out the rest at the back.
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Like the sound of that. Its our best team.

It amazes me how often United can press the self destruct button.
 
You can play any formation you want, but if you have the flakes we have, when the going gets tough they go into hiding. Back Amorim with leaders who will kick the team into shape. Bruno, Maguire, Martinez are not leaders.
 
its not the system, its the personnel. Amorim's Sporting demolition of Man City showed that clearly enough.
 
BluesJr said:
We need 3 in the middle. You cannot survive in the PL with 2.
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We technically have 4 in the middle, that is one of the benefits of this system, the issue is when you start Eriksen, Case, Zirkzee and Amad, you get about the workrate/pace of a 2 man pair.
 


343 ain’t the problem.


P.S. Shame Dumfries signed a new contract. He could have been a cheap option to add in at RWB in the summer.
 
Credit to Amorim for somehow making it work at the Etihad and Anfield with this squad.

I’m interested to see how it’ll look when we have true wing backs in, a dynamic No.10 who can create and finish then finally a proflic striker in there. It could be exciting.
 
daba said:


343 ain’t the problem.


P.S. Shame Dumfries signed a new contract. He could have been a cheap option to add in at RWB in the summer.
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In this system the wing backs are effectively wingers rather than defenders, we really do need a new RWB and LWB if Amorim has any hope of making the system work long term, Conte got it to work at Chelsea brilliantly and won the league.
 
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