Definitely. Im sure it will be the priority this summer. For now though, especially against stronger teams, i would much rather have the full backs there than trying to make it work with a winger.
3-4-3 Ain’t it
- Thread starter RedDevilCanuck
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Definitely. Im sure it will be the priority this summer. For now though, especially against stronger teams, i would much rather have the full backs there than trying to make it work with a winger.
Its never been about systems* its about players doing what they're supposed to do week in week out.
*EtH near the end was weird, granted.
*EtH near the end was weird, granted.
The centre backs seemed to be much more aggressive stepping out of defence today which I think made a difference.
It would help if we had 3 quick centre backs so they could push up high and step out of defence with some confidence that what's behind them can deal with situations and spaces if something goes wrong.
Unfortunately, we have the slowest centre back options ever assembled, and that will likely hold us back over the course of a season, despite the excellent performance today.
It would help if we had 3 quick centre backs so they could push up high and step out of defence with some confidence that what's behind them can deal with situations and spaces if something goes wrong.
Unfortunately, we have the slowest centre back options ever assembled, and that will likely hold us back over the course of a season, despite the excellent performance today.
Big point.
Amorim at Sporting would have one of his center backs joining midfield with the ball, as well as stepping up and being aggressive when his 2 midfielders were outnumbered by the three opposition midfielders. I saw Maguire and Martinez make tackles on Jones and Macalister yesterday. Good to see.
This is key though isn't it and I made this point after the Newcastle game.
Carragher seemed to think he'd found some kind of "hack", by suggesting that there was a huge amount of space in the pockets either side of United's midfield two - but the point is, the CBs are supposed to be stepping out onto these opposition midfielders.
It's not surprising though, that after only a few training sessions, this wasn't happening and we were getting overran
Close the thread, 343 is it, we took on the current best form side in the world with a mish mash of players from previous managers and played better and nearly won at their famed home ground!
While i agree that 343 works, i wouldnt say this based upon just one game. Think a larger sample size is needed, especially with Amorim has some signings and more time with these player.
But it is also really lazy to bash the system because of some defeats, like some have done. Most posters are not even able to point to what it is in the system that is the issue - It is TalkSport level analysis. Without that, it is as relevant as saying we lost because we worse white socks instead of black.
Any system can work with the right players and any system will not work with the wrong players. Simples
I think what a majority are missing here is we had a week to prepare for this game, a week for Amorim to instill what he needs in the system, and a full week to work with the players on individual expectations.
For a lot of yesterday's players it was one of their best games all season, Dalot, Martinez, Bruno especially.
That left side has been a problem for the system since day 1 but yesterday they were almost infallible.
Give the manager time and resources, I trust in what he's doing.
For a lot of yesterday's players it was one of their best games all season, Dalot, Martinez, Bruno especially.
That left side has been a problem for the system since day 1 but yesterday they were almost infallible.
Give the manager time and resources, I trust in what he's doing.
What I did notice yesterday was that despite Liverpool arguably being the best pressing side in the league, with the 3 at the back it always felt like we had an extra man which made it feel like we were never under too much pressure and helped us avoid getting trapped so easily. It looks like teams will have to commit a lot of men forward in the press to match us, which could lead to large gaps in the centre of the pitch for us to exploit.
It must be said, we still struggled to fluidly play our way out without resulting a long ball forward most of the time, but that will improve with time as we learn the patterns and how to set-up properly as well as hopefully getting in another ball playing CB in during the summer (someone like Diomande from Sporting).
It must be said, we still struggled to fluidly play our way out without resulting a long ball forward most of the time, but that will improve with time as we learn the patterns and how to set-up properly as well as hopefully getting in another ball playing CB in during the summer (someone like Diomande from Sporting).
Its a good system we always have an extra player at the back and up front in different stages of play WHEN the players are adept at it.
Even in the first few games we saw it due to the structure alone. Dalot especially has had so many chances from the right. Of course most of them ended up into nothing but put a world class RWB there and there would be goals galore. Still not sure about Dalot. He is decent but not a goal threat nor a good asisster..
Licha's goal was another example, I guess.
Even in the first few games we saw it due to the structure alone. Dalot especially has had so many chances from the right. Of course most of them ended up into nothing but put a world class RWB there and there would be goals galore. Still not sure about Dalot. He is decent but not a goal threat nor a good asisster..
Licha's goal was another example, I guess.
This was the issue vs Newcastle. The CBs didn't push into the space next to the two CMs when the CAMs were high. In this formation either the wide CBs push up, the CAMs come back to form a 4 or the wingbacks occupy that space. Vs Newcastle neither of that happened. Tbf, the players on the pitch need to understand the game situations that they are in to know when it should be CBs pushing up or CAMs dropping back. I don't think we made any major tactical changes vs Pool, the team just played a bit more cohesively which may be because the positions of the liverprool players caused less concern than the Newcastle players did. It was clear against Newcastle both Martinez and Dalot were unsure of what to do with the winger as well as Isak, so Dalot spent most of his time in a traditional fullback position and Martinez being hesistant about whether to engage in midfield. Which we then get the obesrvations of playing a back 5 over a back 3. To me its the same tactic, just whether the opposition pins our wingbacks back with their positioning or our uncertainty.
The wingbacks are absolutely key, because as you said, they are meant to provide an extra man at both ends of the pitch at all times.
Reminds me of when Spurs had 2 quality options at both fullback positions under Poch (Walker + Trippier at RB, Rose + Davies at LB) because the fullbacks were crucial to his system and required them to be incredibly fit to get up and down.
We need similar.
LWB is obvious, we need a new left footed starting option there, someone like Nuno Mendes. Dalot has shown he can do a very good job there too as the second option.
At RWB, I think we arguably need two new options. I’d go for Quenda from Sporting, plus maybe look at Lamptey from Brighton on a free as he is OOC in the summer. Dalot and Mazraoui can obvs provide depth.
Or in our case also dependent on the amount of effort our players put in.
Really good points.
I would suggest some of that heisitation may have also been from Casemiro and Eriksen not being able to cover the three, far more dynamic, Newcastle midfielders. If as a CB, you see multiple center mids not covered, do you really want to push out and it be 2 v 1, knowing that they could easily find the space you vacate?
Having Ugate, Bruno and Mainoo in there yesterday definitely gave the center backs more confidence.
That's the dilemma of the tactic and tbh any tactic. If you play the high line, your dilemma is when the ball is turnt over you have to press to stop the counter that you are now more vulnerable to. In this tactic Casemiro and Eriksen definitely played a part in all that space being there but if you play a 2 in cm there will always be occasions where they are outnumbered by a 3 man midfield at some point in the game. It's in those occasions where the space appears that the CB or CAM has to make the decision to step up or drop back. Against Newcastle they hesitated in those occasions and there were more of those occasions than normal because it was Eriksen and Casemiro in midfield. This is the issue with a system as we know, all the pieces have to work in harmony. As we have seen with Pep or Klopp at times, the minute there is disharmony in the system it gets exploited.
Blue eyes, blonde skin, tanned hair don’t cut it: you need a particular bag of neat meat to fill it out.
Typical kneejerk thread made immediately after a disappointing result. Let Ruben have some time to train his players into his tactics and philosophy before wetting the bed about his preferred formation. The City and Liverpool results are evidence he's in the midst of recalibrating the squad in the right direction.
Amorim said it clearly in an interview during the depths of our miserable December that he won't change tactics, because as he put it "when you abandon your principles, you are dead as a coach". I believe him. And I think the Board knows this and will back him in the coming windows. The main challenge is money.
This is exactly it. We have barely had time to train, most times they are playing a system they are not coached.
A week of coaching, we showed that we look alot better but we looked okay against Arsenal away too.
This team has always had a mentality issue, the test will be Southampton at home, can we replicate the same desire?
When was the last time we actually went away to Liverpool and looked comfortable on the ball? LVG game?
People forget this Liverpool team dominated City at home, they are a brilliant attacking team.
These types of threads rarely age well.
I think they’re great. We all just spitball our ideas and then someone calls someone else an armchair analyst and it all kicks off
Been thinking, does this 3-4-3 formation need a late-career busquets type in the middle, like would Casemiro still have a role if he tried to reinvent as ball playing centre back? He has the aggression, ball playing, good in the air etc, or would his pace be absolutely murdered? I dunno just trying to find a job for the boy before Saudi calls.
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