2034 WC to be Held in Saudi Arabia after Australia Pulls out

[Crostien]

FA Statement on Saudi WC:

Yea, we are seriously conserned about human rights and migrant labour abuses the KSA is accused of, but we know the vast majority of our customers will watch it all regardless, so will do the bare minimum to protect our brand from the financial repercussions any boycott would incur.

To indicate our serious concirns we will support the team when they wear emblems of solidarity with the gay community or whatever, but we will of course force their removal whenever then PM Lee Anderson tells us to, or when threatened with a points deduction.

Furthermore, and this is the most important aspect, we will kick off and moan if this competition effects the country's (England, obvs) Strictly schedule or has to be played in January, even though we'll go with either.

So, despite our ardent objections, let's get this crap out the way and enjoy the Riyadh sunshine. It's racist to oppose it innit 'Western values' and whatnot...

Three Lions!

The moral virtue signalling predictably stopped as soon as the football started.

Here at the FA, we endorse this attitude. Even though we don't.

Three more Lions!

 

[Fridge chutney]

It's not wrong at all it is what happened. We went from "I'm boycotting the world cup" players threatening to protest etc. To "best world cup ever lolz" in the space of only a few weeks.

Last I checked lots of people still died building the stadiums while working in inhumane comditions, so anyone proclaiming it the best world cup ever really needs a slap in the face. ESPECIALLY if they dared pretend they were appalled by it beforehand..

I will admit being slightly culpable myself but the tournament still leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever I stop to think about it for more than a few seconds.

It's not something to hold against Saudi Arabia BT default but IF any world cup ends up being pit together in similar circumstances I won't be watching it, and will be hoping it kicks up enough outrage to end up being cancelled

Who is "we"? Maybe you are highlighting your own hypocrisy, but many people, including on this forum, boycotted it.

 

[rcoobc]

Why can't the caf host the world cup?

No, not the african federation - redcafe!

If we put everything we own together we should be able to host a world cup with no issues!

 

[ArtetasHair]

This is the great time for those hypocrites who have ignored the brutal genocide the last 1 year will now suddenly wake up and give everyone lectures.

For the record, I find it personally appalling corrupt Gulf states are given tournaments but atleast I am consistent

 

[Crostien]

This is the great time for those hypocrites who have ignored the brutal genocide the last 1 year will now suddenly wake up and give everyone lectures.

Christ.

 

[Fridge chutney]

This is the great time for those hypocrites who have ignored the brutal genocide the last 1 year will now suddenly wake up and give everyone lectures.

For the record, I find it personally appalling corrupt Gulf states are given tournaments but atleast I am consistent

Who are these supposed hypocrites?

 

[MURED]

Make me

What about the women? Genuine question? We hear a lot of things that might not be accurate but as someone living there enlighten us.

I know the question is not directed to me, but if this was a genuine question allow me to answer.

Don’t believe anything you hear about Saudi women in western media. The situation was dire pre-2017 but it has since changed significantly.

Women participation in labor force is now around 40% (ahead of several western countries).

In terms of jobs quality, Saudi has better women participation in tech than EU, Silicon Valley and several other countries. The assistant minister of sports (a very high position and report directly to the highest sports authority) is a woman and she’s making strides on the topic of equal pay for men and women in sports. Pay is equal between men and women in most jobs.

In terms of lifestyle, a lot of western media is criticizing us for women being allowed to drive too late (I agree, it was a huge mistake but it was fixed, can we stop talking about it please? What more can Saudi do?). Also, everything you may read about women requiring a male guardian approval to do anything is not true anymore (except I think maybe in marriage where a father blessing is required).

On hijab, it’s not required by law, women just have to dress modestly (so do men). Lots of women do not wear hijab anymore and those who do, do it by choice (or forced by society, not law).

TLDR, Saudi changed a lot after 2017. Women are (for the most part) equal to men (per law). Some societal norms need time to catch up but that’s to be expected.

 

[Abusian]

Will unaccompanied women be allowed to attend? Will they be able to hire cars and drive? Will visitors be allowed to travel freely within KSA? Will alcohol be permitted? Will there be facilities for attendees to worship if they’re non Muslim? Can fans gather in groups? Will atheists be arrested and jailed? Will fans be able to eat and drink in public during Ramadan?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

This is the great time for those hypocrites who have ignored the brutal genocide the last 1 year will now suddenly wake up and give everyone lectures.

For the record, I find it personally appalling corrupt Gulf states are given tournaments but atleast I am consistent

Surely you don't mean users on this forum? Because a cursory glance in the current events forum shows otherwise.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Will unaccompanied women be allowed to attend? Will they be able to hire cars and drive? Will visitors be allowed to travel freely within KSA? Will alcohol be permitted? Will there be facilities for attendees to worship if they’re non Muslim? Can fans gather in groups? Will atheists be arrested and jailed? Will fans be able to eat and drink in public during Ramadan?

I think the answer to all of these questions is a resounding "Yes, of course" right up until the tournament starts when it'll suddenly be "Wow, you're being bigoted not respecting our culture."

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

 

[RedDevil@84]

Will unaccompanied women be allowed to attend?

There should be a "posts that feel creepy, but aren't" thread.

 

[ArtetasHair]

Surely you don't mean users on this forum? Because a cursory glance in the current events forum shows otherwise.

Certain users. Who were very active in the Qatar thread and even the Ukraine thread and vanished in the Palestine thread or supported the killers.

 

[noodlehair]

Who is "we"? Maybe you are highlighting your own hypocrisy, but many people, including on this forum, boycotted it.

Right, so it's all well and good saying things that sound nice, but this is directly contradicted by viewing statistics, so is just plain false. Maybe the odd person boycotted it. A hugely vast majority, didn't.

As far as this forum goes. Many of the people saying they were going to boycott it, subsequently turned up in the "best world cup of all time" thread. Go and check if you want. Or just don't try to lecture me with demonstrably false arguments.


What I found more interesting at the time was the near unanimous support for the planned England team protest, which was then completely flipped to near unanimous support of not carrying out the protest, on the grounds FIFA had threatened to book Harry Kane. And the reason I found it fascinating is the idea of suppsedly caring enough about a cause to go around lecturing about the importance of it to other people/each other, but when it comes to action, valuing it as less important than a footballer being booked in a football game. I made this point at the time, and large numbers of posters were willing to argue to me that it wasn't worth risking a yellow card for. Not one person was willing to back up the idea that it should be more important than a football game/booking.

Now, if you said to everyone on redcafe that if Harry Kane gets booked in the next England game, they get £5 for free, most would actively want him to be booked. Maybe the odd 1% might care so much about him getting a yellow card that they still would prefer it didn't happen...but I think if anything 1% is extremely generous. Now I know this is very assumption based but I don't think anyone would reasonably argue I'm miles off with that? It's a very insignificant thing to happen.

However, swap the £5 for "making a potentially positive impact for women's and LGBT rights" and, almost without exception, no one wants Harry Kane to get booked. And this is not assumption based. It is in fact what actually happened.

And there in is the problem. It isn't aimed at anyone and it isn't a comfortable truth, but just like when many Liverpool supporters became OK with racial abuse because it was something their best player decided he liked to partake in, sometimes what people will say and what measure of sacrifices they are willing to make to back it up are pretty far apart from each other, due to the latter being at exactly 0.

And this has nothing to do with this thread but don't be preachy about stuff that you simply can't back up.

 

[Stack]

Certain users. Who were very active in the Qatar thread and even the Ukraine thread and vanished in the Palestine thread or supported the killers.

So you are talking about a few certain users? Not some great number of people ?

 

[GazTheLegend]

Can anything actually be done about FIFA? I've mostly lost interest in football but I'm presumably in the minority and most people will watch it but I don't think I've given a single shit for a long time now and that is simply not going to change. I see "why" FA's etc don't bother - you don't bite the golden goose shitting your eggs. But at this point it's surely too brazen even for most average football fans to notice things.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

England, Germany, France and Spain should each host every WC.

 

[TheLiverBird]

Long live his excellency

Did I say it right?

 

[NYAS]

I think the answer to all of these questions is a resounding "Yes, of course" right up until the tournament starts when it'll suddenly be "Wow, you're being bigoted not respecting our culture."

What are you basing this on?

 

[Tibs]

Qatar did a fantastic job, I'm sure the Saudi's will too...it'll defo be a winter World Cup again.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

What a terrible run of World Cup hosts:

South Africa: polluting our ears with those awful vuvuzelas
Brazil: One of the better recent ones, but still that stadium in the Amazon and the expansion in expectations from Fifa
Russia: banned from international sport for systematic doping, possible allowed doping in tournament, then tyrant invades Ukraine
Qatar: migrant worker scandal and everything else
USA, Mexico, Canada: Trump handing over the trophy, start of this 48 team, 3+ countries bollocks
Six country extravaganza across 3 continents: Shite
Saudi Arabia: The worst, but inevitable

 

[Tibs]

Also, are we meant to be getting angry about the World Cup being in America? Or is that one ok?

 

[NYAS]

Also, are we meant to be getting angry about the World Cup being in America? Or is that one ok?

Not allowed to bring up other World Cups in this thread.

Unless it’s the Qatar one, that’s fine apparently.

 

[stevoc]

anyone watching European competitions with Izraeli clubs participating and being perfectly fine with that will be perfectly fine with this as well.

What if you're not perfectly fine with that though? Are we allowed to criticize this World Cup then?

also, "another" winter WC? the last one was in autumn, no?

November to February is winter in Qatar. Like the majority of the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

What are you basing this on?

The Qatar World Cup, where the exact same thing happened.

"yeah, you can drink alcohol" and "yeah, rainbow flags will be permitted" for months leading up to the first game. And then two days before the tournament started; boom.

 

[NYAS]

The Qatar World Cup, where the exact same thing happened.

“They’re all the same” is a slippery slope, don’t you think?

That’s aside from the fact the post you quoted is one of the biggest examples of ignorance I’ve seen on here, as none of what they mentioned was ever going to be an issue except for a last-minute decision on the locations of alcohol availability.

People who actually live in the country have posted in this thread about how it is now regarding those issues (a whole decade before the tournament). I’m sure you didn’t miss it.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The conversation will quickly pivot on to respecting other cultures whilst forgetting that it's a worldwide sporting event that's meant to cross social and political divides.

I agree with the human right and LGBT concerns, but do not agree to the statement that the host country has to do things that cross social or political divides. Or for that matter subvert the laws of that nation to accomodate the visitors.

It is up to FIFA to make sure that such a large scale event happens in places that is agreeable to the bulk of the participating nations and their fans.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

Folks on here need not worry, at the rate MBS is modernizing, Saudi won’t look anything like it looks today, just like how different it is now than 10 years ago.

He’d still be chainsaw guy and brutal dictator, but on social and religious issues, I wouldn’t be too worried

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Beyond all the genuine ethical concerns (it's scandalous it's held there, but it was obvious it was happening, KSA has been very good at washing their image over the past few years), it's just a really shit choice considering the lack of footballing culture and passion, as you can see when looking at highlights of the league games there.

Not that Infantino cares about it. He, or whatever cardboard Bond villain cutout has taken his place in the meantime, will smile through his teeth vomitting PR puff pieces for the next 10 years, maybe have a weird, disturbing I-Had-A-Dream wannabe rant the day before the first game, and it'll just happen and be lauded as incredible, disregarding all the bad things that will have happened to get there. His Swiss bank account having quadrupled in size in the meantime.

 

[Abusian]

There should be a "posts that feel creepy, but aren't" thread.

Exactly. Sadly, ‘unaccompanied women’ are a thing in Saudi, although it is true they have made some small strides…

 

[stevoc]

The conversation will quickly pivot on to respecting other cultures whilst forgetting that it's a worldwide sporting event that's meant to cross social and political divides.

Yeah just like last time, we'll be expected to respect a culture that has no respect for anyone elses culture.

Can't wait until the World Cup switches to every 2 years. Then we get to watch a World Cup in one of these human rights abusing ''lovely places'' every few years.

 

[Tibs]

Not allowed to bring up other World Cups in this thread.

Unless it’s the Qatar one, that’s fine.

Sorry

 

[Mr Pigeon]

“They’re all the same” is a slippery slope, don’t you think?

That’s aside from the fact the post you quoted is one of the biggest examples of ignorance I’ve seen on here, as none of what they mentioned was ever going to be an issue except for a last-minute decision on the locations of alcohol availability.

People who actually live in the country have posted in this thread about how it is now regarding those issues (a whole decade before the tournament). I’m sure you didn’t miss it.

I read some personal accounts about how everything is fine from a bunch of blokes, sure. I've also read that women's rights are still a significant issue according to the UN and the World Economic Forum. Forgive me for believing organisational reports over a couple of folk on here saying "trust me bro, everything is cool." Much like what you're saying now; how all of the issues won't be a problem and to just trust you. Ironically the same things said before the Qatar World Cup until moments before it started.

I also didn't say that "they're all the same", so you can park that bullshit argument for a start.

Deflect, deflect, deflect. It's the same fecking game like last time.

 

[Crostien]

Deflect, deflect, deflect. It's the same fecking game like last time.

• Yeah, but you use oil in your car
• Yeah, but America
• Yeah, but 'the west'
• Yeah, but you didn't boycott Russia
• Yeah, but my mate actually lives there and says it cool
• Yeah, but Westerners cannot force their views onto others
• Yeah, but it's all wokey-cokey virtue signalling
• Yeah, but Israel
• Yeah, but your iPhone
• Yeah, but the Premier League let Newcastle and you watch that

Mostly, the same talking 'points' the pro-Qatar crowd had and have.

 

[Massive Spanner]

FIFA must be the most fecking corrupt organisation in the world.

Infantino is even worse than Blatter. They couldn’t have picked a better successor.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

No issue with Saudi hosting it. Qatar did a good job.

If Saudi or Qatar shouldn't host it, then who in the Arab / Middle East world can host it? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Libya, Egypt? No because all those countries have or have had recent wars and politically turnoil.

So, what's the issue with Saudi and Qatar? They are wealthy countries who are capable of hosting. Must only be racism against people in that part of the world. Eurocentric view and Europeans think only they should be able to watch world cup in the most convenient timezone I guess.

Terrorist war mongering countries hosted in 2018 and will host again in 2026 so no issue with Saudi or Qatar.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

• Yeah, but you use oil in your car
• Yeah, but America
• Yeah, but 'the west'
• Yeah, but you didn't boycott Russia
• Yeah, but my mate actually lives there and says it cool
• Yeah, but Westerners cannot force their views onto others
• Yeah, but it's all wokey-cokey virtue signalling
• Yeah, but Israel
• Yeah, but your iPhone
• Yeah, but the Premier League let Newcastle and you watch that

Mostly, the same talking 'points' the pro-Qatar crowd had and have.

Yeah and typical, you have no counter to any of those arguments. Thanks for proving no point.

 

[NYAS]

I read some personal accounts about how everything is fine from a bunch of blokes, sure. I've also read that women's rights are still a significant issue according to the UN and the World Economic Forum. Forgive me for believing organisational reports over a couple of folk on here saying "trust me bro, everything is cool." Much like what you're saying now; how all of the issues won't be a problem and to just trust you. Ironically the same things said before the Qatar World Cup until moments before it started.

I also didn't say that "they're all the same", so you can park that bullshit argument for a start.

Deflect, deflect, deflect. It's the same fecking game like last time.

“Deflect” Yeah you’re right, I shouldn’t point out that the life my female cousins live is completely different to the life portrayed in that post. Should have shut up and let the people on another continent tell me how women can’t drive nor travel unaccompanied next time they visit me.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I read some personal accounts about how everything is fine from a bunch of blokes, sure. I've also read that women's rights are still a significant issue according to the UN and the World Economic Forum. Forgive me for believing organisational reports over a couple of folk on here saying "trust me bro, everything is cool." Much like what you're saying now; how all of the issues won't be a problem and to just trust you. Ironically the same things said before the Qatar World Cup until moments before it started.

I also didn't say that "they're all the same", so you can park that bullshit argument for a start.

Deflect, deflect, deflect. It's the same fecking game like last time.

The page dedicated to Saudi Arabia on the Human Rights Watch website is also an interesting read - and voices some direct concerns related to the WC. But hey, what would they know, they've only gone out and interviewed firsthand hundreds of migrant workers, like an NGO should do.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

So, what's the issue with Saudi?

Other than it being illegal to practice a religion other than Sunni Islam, it's punishable by death to be gay, press censorship exists and males still have guardianship over women. Oh, and apparently it's a executable offense to practice sorcery. fecking sorcery.

Oh, no. Wait. Like you said it must be racism. That'll shut down any dissenting voices now, won't it? fecking hell.