Yeah, they should. But the outrage doesn't seem to be over Australia and New Zealand aren't getting a turn is it. Maybe Saudis paid FIFA more which is wrong but that doesn't seem to be the problem people are bothered about. Outrage seems to be it's because it's Saudi. Doubt if it seemed Spain paid FIFA off to host there would be this much outrage.
2034 WC to be Held in Saudi Arabia after Australia Pulls out
- Thread starter Ahmer Baig
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Yeah, they should. But the outrage doesn't seem to be over Australia and New Zealand aren't getting a turn is it. Maybe Saudis paid FIFA more which is wrong but that doesn't seem to be the problem people are bothered about. Outrage seems to be it's because it's Saudi. Doubt if it seemed Spain paid FIFA off to host there would be this much outrage.
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Doesn't matter what you can or can't do in your country compared to Saudi. It's a month long football toruanment. Nobody is going to Saudi to try build a church. They're all there to play and watch football. Gay, trans whatever you are can still go to Saudi for that month or even now. Nothing is stopping them. There is no check they do at the airport to make sure you're not gay or trans.
Yes, you can't publicly be affectionate and be open about your sexuality if you're in that group. It's illegal to commit heterosexual sex acts in public in western countries, their rules are more extreme. At the end of the day nothing is stopping you from playing and watching football in Saudi. That shouldn't stop them from being allowed to host.
Oh and I doubt you were this outraged over homophobic and transphobic religious Russia hosting the WC. They were still in a convenient timezone and a white country you would be comfortable enough to visit (before the Ukraine invasion).
You're a pathetic apologist and I'll take the points.
Except that it is illegal to be homosexual, but yeah, other than that, nothing is stopping non-straight people from visiting!
Nobody should be going to Saudi to play football either. Football is a representation of togetherness and acceptance. You can't prosecute an entire community then expect to represent a sport that brings people together. It's hypocrisy to the highest degree.
Saudi is only a nation who wants to flaunt their wealth. They don't give a feck about me, you or football. It's just a "look at me" exhibition for all their pretty things.
What? Ffs
I’m bloody South African and my response had nothing to do with Russia (or the World Cup) ffs. I just called out an untruth about my own country. Don’t know what you’re on about bud. I have no agenda.Most of that is nonsense. Gay people have to be very careful when visiting Saudi and even more liberal UAE. The authorities may not actively hunt you down but if you get reported they will. And you can get reported for the obvious things like holding hands and less obvious things like sharing a hotel room, especially if you don't book single beds. Once you come to attention you better be sure your socials don't make it obvious that you are gay or you are fecked. I know gay people who travel to UAE for business who book separate rooms and lock their socials down when visiting on the advice of the local gay community (mainly expats).
And what does Russia have to do with it? Would Saudi's stance suddenly be worse in your eyes if Russia was a bastion of acceptance? I'd guess no and you are just upset that Saudi's fundamentalist regime is getting criticised. And what makes you think anyone wanted Russia as a WC host?
- Human Rights
- LGBTQ+
- Women's Rights
- Migrant Workers Rights
- Sportswashing
- No free press
- No freedom of political or social expression e.g. State sanctioned murder of Khashoggi
- No historic footballing culture
- Summer hosting
- Environmental concerns
- Geopolitical concerns e.g. their role in Yemen and funding extremism and terrorism
Most of which are a direct contraventions of FIFA's alleged values.
Yeah, but...
Yes it's unfortunate but gay people can still visit. Isolating Saudi from these things won't lead to change.
I'm not upset. I'm just calling out the double standards. If America and Russia get to host so should Saudi. If Israel isn't banned right now then that isn't right. So stopped caring about who hosts now. Qatar I was bothered about at the time but not anymore.
And yes if Russia a were great accepting country and if all other hosts were, then yes this Saudi appointment would be an issue for me. But as mentioned don't care now given the double standards.
Yes there was controversy over Russia at the time but not to the level Saudi and Qatar received / are receiving.
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It isn't a double standard because that you have invented that people here were pro-Russia getting the World Cup.
Only valid claim you have there is the migrant workers. Their conditions should be watched closely. Last I heard they've improved on that but none of us know exactly how hard it is for them. Also migrant workers have it tough at all countries they work menial jobs.
The rest of your points:
- Russia is homophobic
- wow funding Yemen look at the terrorists USA and Russia and the proxy wars they create and fund, far greater
- bet you don't go protesting about the oil Saudi provides and about Newcastle United
- historic football culture is irrelevant and elitist. Football is about letting others get better not just Europe and South America
- it will be in winter like Qatar
- free press is an issue everywhere
- environment concerns? What building stadiums? Have America and the world gone full carbon green or something and not building anything
- America have killed way more innocent people in the middle east and everywhere
- women have more freedom now and are getting more freedom. Isolating Saudi won't encourage progressive change.
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I'm not saying people were pro Russia. I've already mentioned this. The level of outrage wasn't as big for Russia like it is with Qatar and Saudi.
Whataboutery writ large.
America has killed 'loads more' so Saudi Arabia is dead on.
Same as on the infamous Club Sale thread. Qatar were unimpeachable
It has to be done, though.
There was plenty of outrage but JBR didn't participate so now has to project his own hypocrisy onto others, whilst simultaneously accusing them of the same racial profiling he's espoused on a variety of occasions.
So two wrongs make a right?
Why are you going on about Russia?
The (only) point is that Saudi isn't fit to be a host.
Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics in the past. That doesn't mean literally anyone is a fit host in the future.
I don't think many countries it in the world are a 'fit host'. You can argue all day about one country vs another, but I do feel there is a greater outcry when it's a middle eastern country vs others.
The only reason I don't agree with Saudi Arabia getting it is because of the potential of the World Cup being moved to the winter.
The only reason I don't agree with Saudi Arabia getting it is because of the potential of the World Cup being moved to the winter.
Maybe?
Are you not paying attention?
It's not simply because it's Saudi Arabia. People have in great detail explained their concerns and objections to holding a traditionally held summer tournamnet in the searing heat of the middle eastern desert. It potentially moving to winter and messing the football calendar up for 1-2 years. And the biggest one Saudi Arabias deplorable human rights record and the way in which they have done or still might treat migrant workers in their construction projects. And that's just a few of the legitimate concerns people have with them hosting.
Stop pretending people have something against Saudi Arabia for no reason. People have valid criticisms.
'A vote without a vote: the Saudi World Cup is an act of violence and disdain'
"Football is making death happen"
Barney Ronay on the decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...i-world-cup-is-an-act-of-violence-and-disdain
(Not sure if that has been posted already.)
"Football is making death happen"
Barney Ronay on the decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...i-world-cup-is-an-act-of-violence-and-disdain
(Not sure if that has been posted already.)
Just as a note that will surprise a few on here. It much more of a social norm for men to hold hands with each other in pubic in Saudi and the UAE than it is over here. A LOT of men hold hands in public over there as a sign of friendship.
And you can quite easily book a shared hotel room in Saudi, regardless of sex.
What’s the KSA stance on Italian men saying goodbye to each other by kissing each other on each cheek?
Men holding hands isn't seen as gay in Arab society so it is irrelevant.
A gay couple could book a room together but they would be mad to do so (same in most of the region including UAE) because all it takes is someone to report you to the police and you can be in a world of trouble.
In Saudi, Kissing on the cheek (touching cheeks together and doing a kiss gesture (for men and women) is considered the polite and right way to greet friends. Even relatives of opposite sex (a guy kissing his parent or aunt). Two kisses on the same cheek or one to each cheek (depending on the area you come from).
Hugs among same sex are also very common place and not seen as gay even in public. So is holding hands among same or opposite sex. Even quick hugs between opposite sexes are seen as a hug between couples and is generally fine (might get you few weird looks).
In fact, in some areas, they do a nose kiss (touching noses and doing a kiss gesture), but it’s not common place anymore cause it goes wrong sometimes
Public displays of affection require, you know, affection. A passionate kiss on the mouth or a very long hug with lots of groping and touching for example.