You've been watching too much Eurovision
2034 WC to be Held in Saudi Arabia after Australia Pulls out
- Thread starter Ahmer Baig
- Start date
I like the idea, but you cannot force a small/poorer country to build stadia.
Well they’d likely pool with other countries I.e. what Morocco has done already. So Croatia - already a very friendly tourist and football mad country - could join with Serbia or even Italy. The issue would come if North Korea somehow did well…
It's impossible TBH, how many countries could create the necessay infrastructure in time
The reason for Saudi Arabia hosting the World Cup is money, money, money. He could be taking them backwards instead of forwards and it wouldn't matter remotely with Fifa. They follow the money, like they did with Qatar, USA and Russia for the past 3 World Cups. I don't agree that it's been rewarded for 'progress' reasons, they run the world's oil system. They have bought boxing, they have bought golf, they bought most of the best race horses, they have bought as much as is possible in football (Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar and various stars, a Premier League team and now the World Cup).
Their story in LIV golf sums up the Saudis, they have basically upended the professional game so that Yasir Al-Rumayyan can get a membership at Augusta National and be seen as level with the American billionaires. It's like Mohammed Al Fayed buying Harods to get a seat with the royal family. It's entirely a status thing, which they're trying to crowbar into every conversation with... the most money in the world.
Couldn't be openly gay in South Africa? Hmmm, that's news to me...as a South African. Gosh, I think we're even one of the first countries to allow same sex marriages. Unless i've been dreaming all this, of course?
only 5 or 6 countries actually play football on decent level anyway and majority of them already have stadiums.
it's not like Serbia or Hungary are winning it any time soon. we have the same nations winning it for eternity. Italy, Spain, Germany, Brazil, France and now Argentina. that will most likely never change.
As someone with a Croatian wife: no.
Healing the world, one step at a time brotherAs someone with a Croatian wife: no.
I mean, I literally worked on the construction sites so I think i'd be in quite a good position to see how health and safety etc was carried out.
Now, that isn't to say there wasn't some issues, and I also went to the UAE between 2016-2020 and I'm aware that 25 years ago things were likely much worse than they were by the time I arrived.
I'm also going to Saudi with a very open mind. If there are major issues, I will be the first to admit it and try to change things. It will definitely be an experience. So far everything i've seen first hand has been very positive and I honestly can't fault any of it.
Oh, I am laughing at them when we visit, but the whole ex-Yugo sphere is so toxic. Gotta hand it to Slovenia though. They basically said, "F this, we're out" and left.
It's the only thing that makes sense.
Maybe
Who needs big fancy stadiums? Football fans would watch the games anywhere in any stadium. Building fancy stadiums is just another way for undeserving countries to flaunt their money. FIFA can help with building the stadiums needed for countries who can't afford to build it themselves. World Cup has lost its meaning.
The romantic in me likes the idea very much. Let's stick with Croatia as an example, since they would be one of the favorites, if we compare population to success or whatever metric we can come up with. They only have a handful of usable stadia and the rest are plain unsafe and small. But yes, maybe that is the way: make FIFA renovate the existing stadia and let's have the game there.
The downside being, that the blackmarket would go through the roof, since these stadia only seat like 10k people.
But now that I wrote that down I warm up to the idea more and more.
Also, on your last point. We surely aren't that far away from people buying VR world cup tickets. You can buy a load of tickets with all your mates with no worries about if you'll sit next to each other or your views, they will add in a load if interactive stuff to do as you watch as well (in play betting vs people 'sitting' near you, games, probably integrate FIFA into it somehow so you can play whilst watching).It's the only thing that makes sense.
Maybe
Who needs big fancy stadiums? Football fans would watch the games anywhere in any stadium. Building fancy stadiums is just another way for undeserving countries to flaunt their money. FIFA can help with building the stadiums needed for countries who can't afford to build it themselves. World Cup has lost its meaning.
Most countries at the WC will have a decent level of football infrastructure, hence why they are at the WC in the first place, really you need 1 or 2 great stadia and then others that are serviceable (and can be revamped in the build up). You'd still get people with money/who win tickets who go physically but then you get millions who will join virtually because it's so much cheaper thus reducing the need for what is really a waste of money on building huge stadiums that then won't be used much, or at least will be far too big for purpose.
let’s just hope he’s not gay and she doesn’t get ideas above her station.
So another winter WC, except this time in Jan and Feb to accomodate.....Ramadan. That's going to wreak havoc on all the league calendars again, except this time worse since Feb will be a WC month, which could stretch into March if WC NT players are given time off. Maybe the Saudis should go all in and have all the matches after dark during Ramadan.
Apart from the human rights there; what bothers me is simply that the World Cup is apparently being held in winter again. With all the consequences for club football and the players.
In future, the World Cups will be organised like this: spread over one or two continents, then an oil state or an autocratic country. Then spread out again and then another oil country.
FIFA can shrug its shoulders and say ‘but every continent has its turn’.
In future, the World Cups will be organised like this: spread over one or two continents, then an oil state or an autocratic country. Then spread out again and then another oil country.
FIFA can shrug its shoulders and say ‘but every continent has its turn’.
What have they done for the footballing community to deserve all this special treatment? What exactly is their contribution to football as a sport that warrants all these inconveniences? If a country like Argentina or Brazil made these demands it would make more sense.
That's a question for FIFA, who have given recent WCs to Qatar and Saudi Arabia
That's a sensible position to take. The human rights angle can be applied to quite a few nations, and ultimately, there are a significant number of fans who aren't interested in mixing politics with their footaball.
The winter WC issue however is inexcusable. Ideally, the Saudis will get around this by building air conditioned stadiums by 2034, which if combined with having some games at night, may be a reasonable workaround to being forced to hold it in the winter again.
Not sure doing it after Ramadan works either, all the months from Ramadan until Al-Hajj are very busy for them.
We're still 10 years away though, so a lot of time to plan.
Yep, regular, individual countries with annoying things like ‘democracy’ and ‘human rights’ can no longer provide FIFA with the profits its shareholders demand, so I imagine the future is very much how you describe it.
There is hope....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cn4xy2el3jno
Could it be another winter tournament?
Speaking to the BBC, sports minister Prince Abdulaziz said organisers were "definitely studying" whether it could be staged in the summer."Why not see what the possibilities are to do it in the summer? Whether it is summer or winter it doesn't matter for us, as long as we make sure that we [deliver] the right atmosphere to host such an event," he said.
The Winter thing is a cop-out excuse, for half the world it's their summer
Which is still progress, the sort of progress only possible under a visionary and magnificant leader like MBS.
*Not funded by the Saudi PIF, honestly.
Couldn't FIFA fund it from the billions they earn from advertising and merchandise? You know funneling money back into the infrastructure of the game.
Or would that cut into all the backhanders for the suits?
Then all the countries that paid out fortunes to build their stadiums in the past will moan about having done so!!Couldn't FIFA fund it from the billions they earn from advertising and merchandise? You know funneling money back into the infrastructure of the game.
Or would that cut into all the backhanders for the suits?
Tough shit. We've got to the stage where we're moving the World Cup to winter to accomodate desert countries. Under the rationale that every country deserves a chance to host the WC. Yeah as long as you are super rich and can spend hundreds of billions on it lining FIFAs pockets. Currently probably 80% of the worlds countries can't afford to even think about hosting.
That is a very slippery slope. Advocating some kind of eliticism or an exclusive group, a super league of big teams or associations whose convenience will be the sole criteria to take WC decisions.
Aussies decided to have World championship in Breakdancing instead of football. They are better in breakdance
Nobody cares. You're on a western forum following European league football, so don't expect any outpouring of sympathy for fans in Madacascar or Vanatu.
Sorry but this entire thing has been pissing me off today and I need to get it out. I'll happily reply to anyone of this post but I'll duck out afterwards.
The primary aim of the World Cup, in FIFA's very own words, is "to improve the game of football constantly and promote it globally in the light of its unifying, educational, cultural and humanitarian values, particularly through youth and development programmes".
Since the announcement was made a few hours ago, two different arguments to the outcry have already popped up ad nauseum. "The West shouldn't force their ideals on others" and "Watch your tone and respect their culture, you massive racist." There's also been alot of "but what about..." which have already been quashed countless times by anyone who has even glanced at the Caf's current events forum. There's also been plenty of blokes saying to ignore the numerous human rights organisations and to just trust their anecdotal, bubbled experience of life for others in Saudi Arabia. Those points have already been covered.
But on the subject of "The West shouldn't force their ideals on others" and "Watch your tone and respect their culture" I keep having this little pinch at the back of my head that won't go away. So, feck it. I'm going to dive in to these two arguments and just leave it at that.
If the West are forcing nations like Qatar and Saudi Arabia to comply, then they've done a poor job of it already. After flying the rainbow flag atop Fifa HQ in 2021 and officially celebrating Pride Month, a statement was released saying that "the FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022™ will be a celebration of unity and diversity – a joining of people from all walks of life – regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, age, disability, sex characteristics, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression – everybody will be welcome."
Qatar waved their hand and all of that work, all of that progress from grassroots organisations to get that fecking flag waving on top of the sport's primary headquarters, was overturned. Qatar literally forced their ideals on an entire international organisations own policy.
And as for "their country, their rules." I'm from Scotland. For the most part we're alright. My kid can identify as transgender in public without fear of persecution. If anyone tries then it's a hate crime. My wife can tell me to feck off if I deserve it for being a massive arse. My daughter too. If someone, for some mad reason, decides to come here to live then the majority of the country welcomes them, whether it's for asylum or simply because they want a better life for their families. Come in, welcome, let's share our mudpit of a nation together.
I can type the following and not worry about finding myself in front of a committee, knowing that I'm likely to be thrown in jail; feck Scotland, feck the UK, feck the King and feck Jesus. The last one especially; would my family be upset with me? Probably. But they wouldn't accuse me of apostasy, beat me in the street and, if I'm lucky, have me arrested.
My final point. A few years ago a mosque was finally built in my town. It was a community effort paid for by the local Muslim community and anyone who wanted to donate. I can't think of anyone I know who didn't put their hand in their pocket and at least give something. That same community group shared their respective ancestral nation's customs or practices, their food, their art, with plebs like me at various local events. We're all part of the same community, all Scottish even if we weren't born here, all equal. We've definitely got plenty of bigoted dickheads kicking about but our leaders haven't wagged their fingers at the outside world and said "remember your place when you come here and don't disrespect our culture." But try wearing a cross in Saudi Arabia and it's a coin toss what will happen to you.
Once again. FIFA's opening statement; "to improve the game of football constantly and promote it globally in the light of its unifying, educational, cultural and humanitarian values, particularly through youth and development programmes". Show me where that factored in the decision to award the competition to Saudi Arabia. Or just accept that the entire thing is a farce.
The primary aim of the World Cup, in FIFA's very own words, is "to improve the game of football constantly and promote it globally in the light of its unifying, educational, cultural and humanitarian values, particularly through youth and development programmes".
Since the announcement was made a few hours ago, two different arguments to the outcry have already popped up ad nauseum. "The West shouldn't force their ideals on others" and "Watch your tone and respect their culture, you massive racist." There's also been alot of "but what about..." which have already been quashed countless times by anyone who has even glanced at the Caf's current events forum. There's also been plenty of blokes saying to ignore the numerous human rights organisations and to just trust their anecdotal, bubbled experience of life for others in Saudi Arabia. Those points have already been covered.
But on the subject of "The West shouldn't force their ideals on others" and "Watch your tone and respect their culture" I keep having this little pinch at the back of my head that won't go away. So, feck it. I'm going to dive in to these two arguments and just leave it at that.
If the West are forcing nations like Qatar and Saudi Arabia to comply, then they've done a poor job of it already. After flying the rainbow flag atop Fifa HQ in 2021 and officially celebrating Pride Month, a statement was released saying that "the FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022™ will be a celebration of unity and diversity – a joining of people from all walks of life – regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, age, disability, sex characteristics, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression – everybody will be welcome."
Qatar waved their hand and all of that work, all of that progress from grassroots organisations to get that fecking flag waving on top of the sport's primary headquarters, was overturned. Qatar literally forced their ideals on an entire international organisations own policy.
And as for "their country, their rules." I'm from Scotland. For the most part we're alright. My kid can identify as transgender in public without fear of persecution. If anyone tries then it's a hate crime. My wife can tell me to feck off if I deserve it for being a massive arse. My daughter too. If someone, for some mad reason, decides to come here to live then the majority of the country welcomes them, whether it's for asylum or simply because they want a better life for their families. Come in, welcome, let's share our mudpit of a nation together.
I can type the following and not worry about finding myself in front of a committee, knowing that I'm likely to be thrown in jail; feck Scotland, feck the UK, feck the King and feck Jesus. The last one especially; would my family be upset with me? Probably. But they wouldn't accuse me of apostasy, beat me in the street and, if I'm lucky, have me arrested.
My final point. A few years ago a mosque was finally built in my town. It was a community effort paid for by the local Muslim community and anyone who wanted to donate. I can't think of anyone I know who didn't put their hand in their pocket and at least give something. That same community group shared their respective ancestral nation's customs or practices, their food, their art, with plebs like me at various local events. We're all part of the same community, all Scottish even if we weren't born here, all equal. We've definitely got plenty of bigoted dickheads kicking about but our leaders haven't wagged their fingers at the outside world and said "remember your place when you come here and don't disrespect our culture." But try wearing a cross in Saudi Arabia and it's a coin toss what will happen to you.
Once again. FIFA's opening statement; "to improve the game of football constantly and promote it globally in the light of its unifying, educational, cultural and humanitarian values, particularly through youth and development programmes". Show me where that factored in the decision to award the competition to Saudi Arabia. Or just accept that the entire thing is a farce.
@Mr Pigeon you’re not bad for a Scotsman.
As opposed to a super exclusive group of mega rich states who can afford to dish out billions to build stadiums to host a football tournament for a month?
For about 15% of the world’s population. And, given all the best S Americans play in Europe, 0% of the main football leagues.
Anyway, we’re not talking about holding it in the southern hemisphere to let them have a summer tournament. Arabia is in the north but too murderously hot to play for half the year.
How much of the league season gets disrupted this time? Will be tricker than 2022 to implement given the CL expansion.
I'm guessing play up to Boxing day then WC starts perhaps Jan 8th? Then leagues start up again. However the domestic cups are going to be massively disrupted as rounds 3-5 of FA cup and SFs of league cup are always scheduled in that period.
Going to be playing well into June 2035 I guess with hundreds of nations league games to fit in...No doubt FIFA will be complete idiots and schedule a FIFA World club cup for summer 2034 aswell.
I'm guessing play up to Boxing day then WC starts perhaps Jan 8th? Then leagues start up again. However the domestic cups are going to be massively disrupted as rounds 3-5 of FA cup and SFs of league cup are always scheduled in that period.
Going to be playing well into June 2035 I guess with hundreds of nations league games to fit in...No doubt FIFA will be complete idiots and schedule a FIFA World club cup for summer 2034 aswell.
An amazing and very articulate post, thank you very much. It gave me a pause to think.
Let me share my perspective as a Saudi. I won’t pretend that Saudi has diversity on the level of the west (I haven’t visited Scotland but it’s been on my travel list and now I’m more eager to visit).
However, let’s appreciate how the west got to be so diverse. This didn’t happen overnight (at least as per my understanding). It happened over many years of educated, smart migrants who came to learn, work and mingle with the local culture. Colonization also played a role (but I’ll admit, maybe not a huge one).
Up till recently, most people didn’t have a reason to visit Saudi (unless you’re a Muslim). This is changing and it’ll take time for all different cultures to mingle and create the level of impact you’re speaking of.
Every culture is rooted in something, be it religion, values or a constitution.
Saudi cultural is deeply rooted on spirituality (religion) and family values. We’re very proud of our culture but it’s evolving and adapting with all the changes we’re experiencing.
10 years is a long time, but I suspect that if you want to visit Saudi and experience the same values you have in the west you’ll be disappointed. That does not make it bad, it’s just a different culture with different values and a different way of life. We prioritize different things.
On a smaller scale, if I was visiting a friend’s house whom I know they have different values than mine, I would do my best not to offend them (I’m just visiting). I’ll enjoy their food, their music, their art but ultimately, I wouldn’t try to change it and I’ll go back to my home where I can be myself again.
I think most people in Qatar who approached their visit that way, enjoyed the experience. While those who kept focusing on how their values are different were disappointed.
There’re many ways to live life and it’s too short to spend it claiming your way of life is superior. This is why, we’re all better off trying to learn about and from each others and take good values that can fit our way of life and let others live the way they like.
Again, I do believe we have a long way to go and a lot to learn when it comes to diversity, but this will come with time and constant mingling with others (just like the west did it).
Thank you this interesting response. It's also given me something to think about. Be well.
Nice to you ignore Russia then because it suits your agenda.
Absolutely nails it.