2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

[berbatrick]

Just something i found, not that i know what it actually means, i don't know what any poll actually means anymore, considering exit polls said top issue was "democracy", while "everyone" voted Trump at the same time, meh.

 

[gaffs]

I just don't see how republicans gets blamed for much of anything between now and 2028, they have way better, what you could say, "propoganda" than dems have, they won the mainstream news battle with Fox, internet is largely dominated by right-wing channels, especially on youtube.

They will if the economy is not great. Their key policies are to put more tariffs on imports, deport illegal immigrants and cut corporate tax rates. All three are inflationary and will hurt those people who are already hurting from post COVID inflation.
Plus, with 4 years of Trump chaos and scandal, people will be sick of them.

 

[Redivy]

What would they have wanted to hear?

They wanted answers on the economy and immigration. What is her actual stance on Israel/Palestine. Funding to Ukraine and what the plan is moving forward.

They won't vote for her because shes not trump, they would vote for her based on what she will do.

I assume many people are just like my family, because the Dems have to work out why 10 million people decided to abstain from voting.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No one has said Defund the Police this election cycle, and certainly not Harris… Though ironically when people were saying it, it didn’t negatively affect Biden’s vote at all.

This obsession with leftist messaging just seems like frustrated venting. It didn’t really play a huge part in anything. If anything Dems need more outsider rhetoric.

What would you focus on from the Democratic Party pov? Simpler messaging? More centrist positions? Digital footprint? Or just having a more charismatic nominee.

As an outsider but also someone whose country has fully dunked the extreme right coolaid, it’s certainly a confusing one because the RW cocktail of bigotry, divide and conquer, majoritarian rule, fear of the other, sexism, misinformation, religlous pandering etc - it just works, as it caters to the most depraved human instincts that seemingly most people have. And it’s sensationalist by nature which makes it easy to message and translate into votes.

 

[Morty_]

They will if the economy is not great. Their key policies are to put more tariffs on imports, deport illegal immigrants and cut corporate tax rates. All three are inflationary and will hurt those people who are already hurting from post COVID inflation.
Plus, with 4 years of Trump chaos and scandal, people will be sick of them.

Trump administration will blame any increase in cost on after-effects from the Biden administration, hammer it home endlessly through Fox, while dems goes on MSNBC and politely say its not true, with actual facts about what is going on.

Who will people believe? We will find out next year.

 

[gaffs]

Trump administration will blame any increase in cost on after-effects from the Biden administration, hammer it home endlessly through Fox, while dems goes on MSNBC and politely say its not true, with actual facts about what is going on.

Who will people believe? We will find out next year.

You are probably right. But when you get four years and the issues are not fixed, then it is very hard to pin the blame on the last administration. As Trump kept saying about Harris "you had four years to fix it".

If the majority of people say the country is on the wrong track + the Dems having a candidate more popular than JD Vance (which is hard not to achieve) then I believe they win in 2028.

 

[gaffs]

What would you focus on from the Democratic Party pov? Simpler messaging? More centrist positions? Or just having a more charismatic nominee.

As an outsider but also someone whose country has fully dunked the extreme right coolaid, it’s certainly a confusing one because the RW cocktail of bigotry, divide and conquer, majoritarian rule, fear of the other, sexism, misinformation, religlous pandering etc - it just works, as it caters to the most depraved human instincts that seemingly most people have. And it’s sensationalist by nature which makes it easy to message and translate into votes.

The right wing cocktail does not work for long if people's lives don't improve.

 

[Redivy]

What would you focus on from the Democratic Party pov? Simpler messaging? More centrist positions? Or just having a more charismatic nominee.

As an outsider but also someone whose country has fully dunked the extreme right coolaid, it’s certainly a confusing one because the RW cocktail of bigotry, divide and conquer, majoritarian rule, fear of the other, sexism, misinformation, religlous pandering etc - it just works, as it caters to the most depraved human instincts that seemingly most people have. And it’s sensationalist by nature which makes it easy to message and translate into votes.

They need all three. The Democratic party should take a center-left position, because thats where the majority of people sit. They do need simpler messaging because after listening to countless hours of Harris and Walz, I still don't know where they stand on anything. And people want a charismatic leader, its human nature. Its why Obama was so popular, he did all three very successfully.

Now obviously people will counter this by claiming that the Dems should stand for change and be very progressive, and thats fair, but they will struggle to even have a say if they continue on like that.

 

[gaffs]

For those criticising Harris, let's remember, she absolutely cleaned his clock in the debate. So much so, that he wouldn't do another, even with nearly two months left.

Not having the traditional 3 debates, may have won Trump the election.

 

[dumbo]

‘Straight-up BS’: Democratic chair attacks Bernie Sanders’ election critique​

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/07/bernie-sanders-democrats-election

You adopted Liz Cheney. You sucked Dick in public. You are enthusiastically supporting the extermination of a people, Jaime Harrison. You had your "I'm speaking" moment. Now shut your stupid mouths and feck off out of politics. You lost, go home.

 

[Carolina Red]

 

[Morty_]

You are probably right. But when you get four years and the issues are not fixed, then it is very hard to pin the blame on the last administration. As Trump kept saying about Harris "you had four years to fix it".

If the majority of people say the country is on the wrong track + the Dems having a candidate more popular than JD Vance (which is hard not to achieve) then I believe they win in 2028.

Good on you for keeping some optimism.

I had a lot of it before the election, pretty much all gone now, but its my own fault, set my self up for failure.

Becoming much more cynical now as a result of all that, not going to hope for good things, and just take things as they come, take it as a surprise if something positive happens.

 

[Carolina Red]

They wanted answers on the economy and immigration. What is her actual stance on Israel/Palestine. Funding to Ukraine and what the plan is moving forward.

No, I get that… but what kind of are they wanting to hear a candidate propose to do on those particular issues?

 

[Carolina Red]

What would you focus on from the Democratic Party pov? Simpler messaging?

The Twitter thread I posted above about the canary in Kentucky speaks on that

 

[caid]

The Twitter thread I posted above about the canary in Kentucky speaks on that

I'd have to register to twitter to read past the first tweet

 

[Idxomer]

No one has said Defund the Police this election cycle, and certainly not Harris… Though ironically when people were saying it, it didn’t negatively affect Biden’s vote at all.

This obsession with leftist messaging just seems like frustrated venting. It didn’t really play a huge part in anything. If anything Dems need more outsider rhetoric.

Richie Torres is a pro-genocide piece of shit and you could argue that he's an actual friend of Trump in the Democratic party.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The right wing cocktail does not work for long if people's lives don't improve.

Didn’t we just have both candidates have four years in office (granted one was a VP) and both regimes saw people’s lives deteriorate? Whether economically or in terms of actual loss of lives. But the mandate was clearly to go with the side that fielded a rapist felon, so there’s more to it than just improving lives here. There’s a psychological and sentimental factor as well to Trump’s win, it seems, where he’s connected with stronger despite corruption, raping and costing lives through terrible handling of the pandemic.

Maybe immigration is something where Trump was more effective than Biden? No idea

 

[Sky1981]

Richie Torres is a pro-genocide piece of shit and you could argue that he's an actual friend of Trump in the Democratic party.

What's this tweet even mean?

A terrorist donator? If even a twitter nobody know why they CIA didnt nab him?

Pro genocide? What does that even meant? Israel sympathizer?

Tweets dont even make much sense these days

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It’s interesting that people place morality on a higher padestal when it comes to football clubs than they do their countries. With Greenwood, we all rightfully considered keeping him a no-go for the club with many stating that they would even go so far as to stop supporting the club should we align ourselves with someone who was clearly sexually assaulting his partner and hence validating that as an act. But when it comes to the nation - which most, especially the hyper nationalist crowd, would say “comes first” - it’s all good and anything goes. The US head of state being all those abhorrent things is just fine it seems.

Or is it more than even when it comes to United it’s just the protesting voices are loudest? And that in general, like with politics or anything else, people don’t really care much about morality.

 

[SinNombre]

No cheating allegations either this time. I guess The Democrats just forgot to sent their illegal immigrants to the polls this year!

Tons of cheating allegations from MAGATs who can't comprehend why the Democrats are likely going to win 5 of the 7 swing states in the Senate/Governor elections.

 

[Sky1981]

For those criticising Harris, let's remember, she absolutely cleaned his clock in the debate. So much so, that he wouldn't do another, even with nearly two months left.

Not having the traditional 3 debates, may have won Trump the election.

That's what you think. Both sides see the same debate and sees 2 different thing

They're all tailored made for their base. You wont like Trump's and his base won't like Kamala's. That's just it.

You don't need to beat anybody, you just need to stroke your base's ego by saying the right buzzword.

Even then Kamala choke, she gets all the classy part but none of the feck you attitude part right

 

[NotThatSoph]

What's this tweet even mean?

A terrorist donator? If even a twitter nobody know why they CIA didnt nab him?

Pro genocide? What does that even meant? Israel sympathizer?

Tweets dont even make much sense these days

You can click on the article and find out, that's what the tweet is for.

 

[Idxomer]

What's this tweet even mean?

A terrorist donator? If even a twitter nobody know why they CIA didnt nab him?

Pro genocide? What does that even meant? Israel sympathizer?

Tweets dont even make much sense these days

Nah, it means that he supports their actions in Gaza and goes above and beyond in defending them and attacking anyone critical. You could also read the article about the donors. His tweet posted by @Sweet Square is another clear AIPAC-coded message.

 

[Jippy]

It’s interesting that people place morality on a higher padestal when it comes to football clubs than they do their countries. With Greenwood, we all rightfully considered keeping him a no-go for the club with many stating that they would even go so far as to stop supporting the club should we align ourselves with someone who was clearly sexually assaulting his partner and hence validating that as an act. But when it comes to the nation - which most, especially the hyper nationalist crowd, would say “comes first” - it’s all good and anything goes. The US head of state being all those abhorrent things is just fine it seems.

Or is it more than even when it comes to United it’s just the protesting voices are loudest? And that in general, like with politics or anything else, people don’t really care much about morality.

The last poll showed a majority in favour of keeping him.

 

[Raoul]

For those criticising Harris, let's remember, she absolutely cleaned his clock in the debate. So much so, that he wouldn't do another, even with nearly two months left.

Not having the traditional 3 debates, may have won Trump the election.

They could've had 5 debates and he would've still won. The candidate and the message were the problem. In fact, I'm convinced the "Weekend at Bernie's" version of Biden would've turned his dark brandon powers on in the final months and gotten a better result than Harris did this week.

 

[SinNombre]

Anyways as the dust settles, the few things that are quite apparent

1. Harris was an extremely unpopular candidate and she had some chances/momentum right after the nomination but squandered it in the months later. It is ridiculous that you lose all 7 swing states while your downstream ballots are able to win in 5 of them. And she is going to end up with more than 10m less votes than Biden which is a massive lose in D support and voter enthusiasm. But I guess what more can you expect from someone who failed so miserably the one time she fought nationally in 2020.

2. Democrats as they are today have a serious problem in the House. They lost votes across all the major urban counties and this is trending against them alarmingly. Identity politics, lax immigration and an increase in small crime will do that, and it is noticeable to anyone who lives in one including myself in Chicago. I also know many left leaning folks who still voted all blue but are getting close to the tipping point in SF.

3. The Democratic coalition is untenable with too many splintered groups with interests that work against each other and they need to consolidate. In these MAGA times, the Democrats should have been sweeping suburban and urban centers and not losing vote shares in them for example. Most people in these areas dislike Trump but they dislike that they are getting nothing from Democrats even more. They let Trump cap SALT, while property prices continue to rise with limited new construction and property taxes and state taxes in the blue islands continue to go up due to bad city/state policies and rampant corruption (looking at IL, NJ and CT here).

4. The Democrats will always be held to a higher standard vs the GOP. That's the nature of a progressive movement vs conservatives who can always promise a return to the good old days as their MO. The onus is always on the progressives to prove that the change they are espousing for is the change needed at the time.

5. It is always the economy. Rising stock market is not the economy. Harris would have won despite being a terrible candidate if inflation hadn't been so bad in the post-Covid/Ukraine times. Biden isn't to blame for it but the electorate is always going to blame him and his admin. There is a reason why incumbents globally have struggled in elections in 2024.

Where does it leave the Democrats? Their ironclad popular vote/House majority leads have evaporated and they need to decide which of their many groups they need to focus on. DEI/identity politics should rationally be the first one to go (very few voters are going to vote Ds because of this and many centrists won't). Working to make urban living more affordable in blue states should be a higher focus. Democrats should continue to be the party supporting immigrants but the rate has to come down to pre-pandemic numbers.

 

[Sky1981]

It’s interesting that people place morality on a higher padestal when it comes to football clubs than they do their countries. With Greenwood, we all rightfully considered keeping him a no-go for the club with many stating that they would even go so far as to stop supporting the club should we align ourselves with someone who was clearly sexually assaulting his partner and hence validating that as an act. But when it comes to the nation - which most, especially the hyper nationalist crowd, would say “comes first” - it’s all good and anything goes. The US head of state being all those abhorrent things is just fine it seems.

Or is it more than even when it comes to United it’s just the protesting voices are loudest? And that in general, like with politics or anything else, people don’t really care much about morality.

Same double standard..with Greenings it's a he's not convicted yet. With Trump it's convicted fellon and a rapist.

People just have double standards on things they have preference.

 

[Raoul]

Where does it leave the Democrats? Their ironclad popular vote/House majority leads have evaporated and they need to decide which of their many groups they need to focus on. DEI/identity politics should rationally be the first one to go (very few voters are going to vote Ds because of this and many centrists won't). Working to make urban living more affordable in blue states should be a higher focus. Democrats should continue to be the party supporting immigrants but the rate has to come down to pre-pandemic numbers.

The Dems need a nuclear reboot. Out with the post-Obama/Hillary identity politics mafia and in with a new set of operatives focused on economics and reconnecting with working class voters and promoting a stricter immigration policy. As Fareed Zakaria said this evening, the Dems have gotten trapped in an identity politics bubble where they aren't able to see categories outside of it; a trap that has placed them in a strange position of reversing MLK's famous line where they are judging people by their skin color and not the content of their character.

 

[fishfingers15]

Two parties engage in identity politics. One plays on your fear and one plays on your morality. One that plays on your fear won, with many dog whistles and racist bullshit. That doesn't need to change. The other that played on your hope needs a nuclear reboot?

 

[Raoul]

Two parties engage in identity politics. One plays on your fear and one plays on your morality. One that plays on your fear won, with many dog whistles and racist bullshit. That doesn't need to change. The other that played on your hope needs a nuclear reboot?

We’re talking about the Democratic Party here. If they want to win, they are going to have to reform their ways. The Republicans are a completely different kettle of fish that get judged by a different standard because Trump had created his own Maga bubble.

 

[Laurencio]

Whenever I have long serious discussions about this with someone we always go through the economy, Kamala as a black female candidate, Gaza, Biden's favorability ratings, populist anger, racism.

Then we remind each other America voted for the guy who told people to inject themselves with bleach, has a felony conviction, talked about immigrants eating cats and dogs, staged an insurrection, said the election he won was rigged and has been hawking NFT trading cards. Oh and suggested blowing up a tornado with nukes.

What the feck America?

 

[Redplane]

Whenever I have long serious discussions about this with someone we always go through the economy, Kamala as a black female candidate, Gaza, Biden's favorability ratings, populist anger, racism.

Then we remind each other America voted for the guy who told people to inject themselves with bleach, has a felony conviction, talked about immigrants eating cats and dogs, staged an insurrection, said the election he won was rigged and has been hawking NFT trading cards.

What the feck America?

Exactly this. If the guy had been even just a wee bit less of a terrible human being (along with everyone that helps sustains it) then hey I might even be okay these days to give the populism a bit of a chance - within reason. But this - this is an abject failure of ethical and moral proportions the likes of which we don't often see. Maybe have even never seen.