2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Difficult to disagree with that.
Agree with her main message. But also think that Biden (or whoever is in charge of the muppet) fecked things up by leaving a year too late to quit, and Harris was the most uninspiring candidate the Dems could have chosen.
Thanks for reminding me Tucker Carlson will have an active role in an administration this time, if he s not in Russia praising Putin that is.
I mean, that's exactly who they are?
If they want to move further to right, there's not much of a policy distinction between the parties anymore, besides social issues like reproductive rights and gay marriage. The Democrats do not get back the working class by getting rid of voices like AOC.
Agree to disagree. I don't fault her and her messaging for this - but I honestly feel like she will not make in roads with the working class at all. She has even shifted her positions to be much more mainstream these days. Why? Because she has to to stay relevant. It's really that simple to me. I'm not asking you or expecting you to agree with that assessment - it's just based on anecdotal what I see around my type conversations and observations. If you're on the coast - that assessment may be different. Here in the industrial heartland though - I have yet to meet someone who thinks an AOC is the answer.
I'm Jon Stewart.
I don't expect her to be "the answer". I just reject the notion that she is so reviled among independents that she somehow contributed meaningfully to this loss. Centrist Democrats are obsessed with blaming the left wing of their party, when really they should take a long hard look at themselves.
I suppose we might be thinking of different definitions, but I'm pretty sure AOC's district is working class.
She's definitely a bit college-lib-coded, though. Moreso now than before.
In case I wasn't clear enough on that - I don't disagree with that at all. But similarly taking a hard left turn - somewhat unfortunately - seems to never work here outside of the local levels. Hence my point earlier about Dems needing to take some stock in still winning several local elections through split votes. Unlike the Rs they unfortunately dont (currently anyway) have one singular message that can reverberate in every corner of this country.
Working class background yes. But per my post below my PT is more that she doesn't have the ability to have that resonate as much outside her own district.
If these next 4 years are the disaster it appears will be the Buttigieg has a real shot.
Yeah, and that message needs to be economic populism, I would imagine. It's been proven that identity politics won't work, and abortion was powerful for one election cycle, but I don't think it can be relied on again. Basically, they should capture some of what Bernie Sanders had in 2016. Even though they are opposites in many ways, him and Trump were feeding off the same type of energy. Trump blamed the Mexicans, while Bernie blamed the billionaires.
And then they obviously need someone charismatic to deliver that message.
I think you are absolutely spot on with that.
My only one concern is the losses in the male voters in particular because of the Rogan type of influences. And it's easy to forget the Gen Z kids who have now all grown up thinking the Trump way of communicating and doing is somewhat normalized. And now we ll get another 4 years of that on the next group of impressionable youth. That goes back to what I blame Trump for the most: the complete failure of maintaining any sense of acceptable social and cultural sensitivity and norms.
There’s apparently been some push back
It's not so much what the democrats paint themselves like as much as what repuhlicans paint them like. It's not just in the US either. The populist right is winning in alot of places. Populist pipedreams, fearmongering and creating an easy to comprehend enemy resonates well with many people. Especially lower educated people who have less of a grasp on how running a country actually works.
Saying you want to improve healthcare, but that this means you will have to raise taxes or take the money from somewhere else is less appealing than screaming THE COMMUNIST DEMS ARE SENDING YOUR MONEY TO UKRAINE, THATS WHY YOU'RE POOR. Trump ran on zero policy, nothing, it's 100% bullshit and villifying the other side. The dems problem is they are now sort of trying that tactic, but try to be civilized about it.
Populism is more effective on the uninformed and while being poorly educated doesnt make you inferior, it does usually make you a bit more susceptible to falling for populist nonsense. The only way to beat populism is to have them win and show they're incompetent. That's why populism still exists after thousands of years.
And it's always a bit hard for me to feel sad for Trumpers (or Geert Wilders voters) when people demean them and call them stupid for voting the way they do. They disdain people for being gay or black, they're disdained for being racist cnuts. Boohoo.
Perhaps he'll be the US Ambassador there
Feck me that is embarrassing
Feels insane that a single aide to a Democratic politician, not even a politician themselves, can create this kind of story.
Definitely a concern. From a communication strategy perspective, Democratic candidates will have to hit these audiences themselves. Gavin Newsom needs to do Joe Rogan, Theo Von, and all the rest of the bullshit. And they probably shouldn't wait until the next presidential election either.
If only there were more than 2 choices.
Somehow blaming the actual left for not supporting whatever Kamala Harris is supposed to be (I'd say firmly rightwing in the classical sense) is ridiculous.
It's even more ridiculous than that, as AOC clearly and vocally supported Kamala Harris in this election. This time they're not saying the left is to blame for not supporting Harris, they're saying the left is to blame for supporting Harris. Well, they're saying both.
Turning "the left" into some sort of global boogyman of the working claas is one of the modern world's biggest ironies.
How the feck have rightwing lunatics like Donald fecking Trump convinced so many people they're the working man's friend.
Just. How.
I guess the one comfort I have in this, is normally politicians do about 5 % of what they say they will on the election trail. It's worth remembering all politicians are self promoting lying corrupt arseholes. Yes trump is that turned up to 11, but the world didn't end last time this idiot was president and it won't this time. Its just a bit sad people voted for some one who is so openly a C**T, but that seems to be his appeal.
So somehow either Biden or Bush were absolute box office
But you are right, any ticket would struggle with the economic reality. I'm just saying that running a ticket that was separate from the administration and that had the chance to run a full campaign would have given them a chance. Harris was hampered by both her connection to Biden, and campaigning for about 100 days against a guy that's basically been campaigning for 10 years.
This the the bottom line. Harris just couldn't do it in 100 days when she was tarred buy the same brush a Biden.
It needed to be someone that actually looked like real change. And even then, as you say, a Dem Governor would have stuggeld. Perhaps a Shapiro / Whitmer ticket could have achieved the extra few % needed in PA and MI, but they still would have needed WI.
70% of the respondents in the exit poll said the country was on the wrong track. 45% said they had suffered financial hardship in the the last two years. Biden had a 40% approval rating, which isn't much better than Trump when he left.
When Trumps message was "you were better off under me" and "Harris is a continuation of Biden" she had no chance. We thought the country remembered how badly Trump screwed up COVID, but they forgot that because today's issue is the price of goods and services, which were undeniable cheaper under him.
Any talk of Gaza, her being a woman, being too liberal, policy flip flops, Liz Cheney are all side dressing.
I wouldn't discount the woman part, but agree it wasn't the difference between winning and losing.
Completely agree. I think Biden was probably spurred on by positive midterm results - ie. only just losing the house!
If he had his way, he would have continued too. Thankfully he didn't, or else it could have been a Reagan v Mondale map.
For every chauvinist that decided not to vote for her, there may be a woman that chooses to.
Plus, she was probably the best voice on the abortion issue, which did help to bring more women to the polls. Biden was never comfortable talking about abortion.
Has there been no post COVID inflation, she would have won. Im convinced of that.
She was killed by the price of bacon and eggs, more than anything! What will Trump voters say when their groceries, insurance and rent doesnt go down?
Not heard Latin X for a long time, certainly not from Harris.
Bit of a strange take when the other side are talking like this (video on 5th post) ...
Biden had a bigger margin with women though. I know, you can't separate all the various reasons, but that's a fact. I think there is still a lot of "Well, a woman can't possibly negotiate with Putin and Xi Jinping" mentality out there, as sad as that is.
Who knows how things go from here. It would be typical if the economy does well under Trump. Inflation has already been brought down, so people may not feel prices increase further, and there are good programs introduced under Biden already. And then he's probably going to drill, baby, drill, which may be good for gas prices.
This says a lot.
I picked the wrong time to start reading On Tyranny, by Timothy Snyder.
It’s about the dangers of authoritarianism and how democracy is fragile unless people actively defend it. While I don’t think democracy in the US will fall, just because Trump is elected, the similarities between the US now and parts of Europe that fell to tyranny in the 20th century are there.
It’s about the dangers of authoritarianism and how democracy is fragile unless people actively defend it. While I don’t think democracy in the US will fall, just because Trump is elected, the similarities between the US now and parts of Europe that fell to tyranny in the 20th century are there.
...Does it really? That a highly concentrated Muslim/Arab population would vote for....a Muslim/Arab representative at the local level?
No convincing needed when it’s clear as daylight. The Democratic Party may be called “the left”, but all they represent is racism, censorship and corruption. No one cares about races and genders, people care about grocery prices and interest rates. They are so out of touch with Americans and it is reflected by them royally losing the presidency, the senate and hopefully the house too. As long as they’re controlled by the Obama mafia they will remain the memes/vibes good for nothing party.