2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

Are we judging Trump by different metrics to everyone else, because whilst you level those accusations at Harris, the same can be said ten fold about Trump. Even worse, there are serious questions about whether Trump has been compromised by Putin and the Russian Intelligence services. In fact, we can almost say that’s a given at this point. So we’ve got all this vitriol aimed at an “unpresidential” candidate in Harris, but if she’s unpresidential, then what does that make Trump? The Dems are constantly held to a much higher standard than the Reps, and it’s not a standard that even helps them. People clearly don’t care if a President is “unpresidential”, that word has no meaning anymore. They’ve just elected a serial sex offender to the highest office. A guy that can barely string a coherent sentence together.

The biggest movement the Dems got in the polls was after the first appearances of Harris and specifically Walz. When he made those quips about Vance not getting off his couch etc., brief 30 second viral sound bites that had no political meaning whatsoever, but resonated in the theatre of a flame war….Harris surged in the polls. Then the political machine kicked in and the Harris campaign started talking about policies, abortion rights, geopolitics….you know, actual important issues….and people switched off. Meanwhile Donald did the usual….”China, China, Me, Me, election fraud, smartest guy ever, electric boat or a shark, immigrants are bad, China….you like my hat?”, and people voted for him in droves. He never said a single thing of any political, real world significance. Never presented anything resembling a plan. Insulted nearly everyone. He was chaos personified. And in people’s mind that’s what he came to encapsulate. A departure from politics as usual, chaos, and entertainment. No one elected the guy because they thought he was presidential or displayed good judgement.

Realistically, how does an intelligent, capable person compete in that arena? Presidents are no longer elected (and I’m not sure how much they ever were) on the basis of their policies or messaging, they are elected on the basis of personality. It’s the ultimate reality show, the business of entertainment. I bet half the people who voted for him, don’t even like him. But Kamala was a suit. Even worse, she was a woman in a suit. Scratch that, she was a woman of colour in a suit. But Trump, he was the Donald. A force of nature. Whether for good or bad. He was entertainment, he was simple, he was a person, not a political figure.

If the Dems learn anything from this, it’s that good policies don’t make good politics. Dignity and qualifications don’t make a good candidate. Men don’t want a woman telling them what to do. And the only basis on which to compete, is on personality. People don’t like Trump, but they think they understand him, and that he understands them. They see him flawed, fallible, and often incompetent, and in that they see themselves.

I’m never going to attack Harris for being an intelligent, highly capable woman, or say she was a terrible candidate, when in reality - viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence - she was ten times the candidate Trump ever was. I think the outpouring of vitriol towards her is appalling. But what is abundantly clear, is that no candidate can ever be viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence ever again. This is no longer the criteria by which Presidents are elected. It’s just really hard for intelligent people to be purposefully thick. But it’s only by understanding that the lens of judgement for all future candidates has to be the strength of their cult of personality, that the Democratic Party can be successful again.

This election was fought and won in 10-30 second sound bites on social media. There was zero communication of any meaningful content. People don’t even know where the new President really stands on any given subject. Just vague impressions of being tough on immigrants, China, and putting more money in your pockets. There is no actual plan for how to accomplish or tackle any of those things. He’s a walking infomercial.

The Dems have two choices moving forwards. The first is to find a candidate that is the living embodiment of hope. Hope beats fear 90% of the time. Obama was exactly that guy. “Yes we can”. Simple, hopeful, powerful, he made people believe and was a brilliant orator. I don’t see an obvious candidate with that platform. It would’ve been Bernie, but that ship has sailed.

The second choice is to go full cult of personality mode. You find your own Trump. A larger than life character, who produces viral soundbites and captures the imagination. Outspoken, and at times controversial. America fecking loves an anti-hero more than anything. Somebody who isn’t afraid to say whatever the feck they want, and be scant on policy around it. They take this approach, and in the right circles, they can still dig deep on strong policy platforms through their VP pick, to keep the college educated crowd on board. But their bombastic Potus pick is there to win the hearts and minds of the “average Joe”, who we have to remember is simple, pretty thick, and won’t engage in politics for more than the regulation 10-30 second sound bites.

People have been searching for deeper meaning. Examining polls. Trawling data for clues. Turning on each other. Attacking their own candidate. But the truth is incredibly fecking simple (just like the electorate):

- Policy details don’t matter in an election.
- The entire campaign has be able to be boiled down to repeatable 30 second sound bites.
- Practicality > idealism. People just want to know if they’ll have more or less money in their pocket.
- Every general issue, whether is foreign affairs, immigration, climate change etc etc., all boils down to how it will affect people financially. Again, will I have more or less money in my pocket.
- Americans generally don’t want a woman telling them what to do.
- It’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you look and sound when you say it.
- Personality >>>>>> Policy. Policies are almost irrelevant. It’s all about personality.

People don’t want Trump, not on the whole, I am largely convinced of this. But they know him and are entertained by him. To the average person, he isn’t a threat. The fact he’s a rambling simpleton makes him even less threatening. Harris is an intelligent, capable woman of colour, who has operated in every branch of government. She’s “thinky”, you can see the wheels turning, you don’t know what’s going on in there….whats she really up to? What’s she really like behind closed doors? Trump, is what you see is what you get. You can trust his untrustworthiness. But Harris, she comes across all smart and caring and shit, but behind closed doors, oooh I bet she’s a devious bitch with Machiavellian plans that I don’t understand. But that’s all the thought I can put into that, because NCIS re-runs are on, and I need to put the kids to bed.

That’s the mindset we are dealing with, that’s the level of thought and engagement most people are committing to this.

Give me a decent social media budget, an outspoken, gregarious, celebrity male between 49 and 69, and a quiet intellectual VP pick, and I’ll win ten elections out of ten for the Dems against a Trump led Republican Party. Give me an intelligent, policy driven man who’s an average speaker, and I’ll win you 8/10 vs Trump. Give me an intelligent, policy driven woman, who’s an average speaker and I’ll win you 3/10 vs Trump. Now make her black, and I’ll get you 0/10.

Dwayne Johnson could have done nothing for three months, if he’d taken over at the same time as Harris, just lifted weights and done whatever the feck The Rock does - and then come out at some point in the middle of the “campaign”, called Trump a pussy, said America needs a real man, made a couple of jokes about his probably tiny penis, taken a whole bunch of media appearances in diners and “regular Joe hangouts” with regular people, and he’d have won by a fecking landslide.

American politics is literally that simple.
Wonderful post.

I remember reading on Reddit where they broke down why Clinton lost in 2016, and how she understood the science of elections but not the art. Obama was adept at both, and Trump is probably stronger with the latter. Which translates votes.
 
Great post, but would argue this covers how to win over Republicans primarily rather than voters in America in general. But that's why it's harder to run as a Democrat than a Republican - your voters are going to demand you to be variable across a range of concerns rather than reductive.
I don’t disagree. But when writing it, I was faced with the conundrum of asking, how do you answer all the questions and concerns that are out there? And I came to the conclusion that you don’t. You don’t because you can’t. You answer the big, easy questions, and you get the keys to the White House and a stranglehold on power, where hopefully you can actually affect meaningful change. You can’t accomplish anything from the outside.

But look, I agree. There is no perfect approach to this. In the absence of a brilliant, unifying candidate like Obama, there’s only one other obvious road to take.
 
Wonderful post.

I remember reading on Reddit where they broke down why Clinton lost in 2016, and how she understood the science of elections but not the art. Obama was adept at both, and Trump is probably stronger with the latter. Which translates votes.
Thank you. And that is very nicely and succinctly put. The science vs the art. You said in 5 words what it took me 700 to say.
 
Are we judging Trump by different metrics to everyone else, because whilst you level those accusations at Harris, the same can be said ten fold about Trump. Even worse, there are serious questions about whether Trump has been compromised by Putin and the Russian Intelligence services. In fact, we can almost say that’s a given at this point. So we’ve got all this vitriol aimed at an “unpresidential” candidate in Harris, but if she’s unpresidential, then what does that make Trump? The Dems are constantly held to a much higher standard than the Reps, and it’s not a standard that even helps them. People clearly don’t care if a President is “unpresidential”, that word has no meaning anymore. They’ve just elected a serial sex offender to the highest office. A guy that can barely string a coherent sentence together.

The biggest movement the Dems got in the polls was after the first appearances of Harris and specifically Walz. When he made those quips about Vance not getting off his couch etc., brief 30 second viral sound bites that had no political meaning whatsoever, but resonated in the theatre of a flame war….Harris surged in the polls. Then the political machine kicked in and the Harris campaign started talking about policies, abortion rights, geopolitics….you know, actual important issues….and people switched off. Meanwhile Donald did the usual….”China, China, Me, Me, election fraud, smartest guy ever, electric boat or a shark, immigrants are bad, China….you like my hat?”, and people voted for him in droves. He never said a single thing of any political, real world significance. Never presented anything resembling a plan. Insulted nearly everyone. He was chaos personified. And in people’s mind that’s what he came to encapsulate. A departure from politics as usual, chaos, and entertainment. No one elected the guy because they thought he was presidential or displayed good judgement.

Realistically, how does an intelligent, capable person compete in that arena? Presidents are no longer elected (and I’m not sure how much they ever were) on the basis of their policies or messaging, they are elected on the basis of personality. It’s the ultimate reality show, the business of entertainment. I bet half the people who voted for him, don’t even like him. But Kamala was a suit. Even worse, she was a woman in a suit. Scratch that, she was a woman of colour in a suit. But Trump, he was the Donald. A force of nature. Whether for good or bad. He was entertainment, he was simple, he was a person, not a political figure.

If the Dems learn anything from this, it’s that good policies don’t make good politics. Dignity and qualifications don’t make a good candidate. Men don’t want a woman telling them what to do. And the only basis on which to compete, is on personality. People don’t like Trump, but they think they understand him, and that he understands them. They see him flawed, fallible, and often incompetent, and in that they see themselves.

I’m never going to attack Harris for being an intelligent, highly capable woman, or say she was a terrible candidate, when in reality - viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence - she was ten times the candidate Trump ever was. I think the outpouring of vitriol towards her is appalling. But what is abundantly clear, is that no candidate can ever be viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence ever again. This is no longer the criteria by which Presidents are elected. It’s just really hard for intelligent people to be purposefully thick. But it’s only by understanding that the lens of judgement for all future candidates has to be the strength of their cult of personality, that the Democratic Party can be successful again.

This election was fought and won in 10-30 second sound bites on social media. There was zero communication of any meaningful content. People don’t even know where the new President really stands on any given subject. Just vague impressions of being tough on immigrants, China, and putting more money in your pockets. There is no actual plan for how to accomplish or tackle any of those things. He’s a walking infomercial.

The Dems have two choices moving forwards. The first is to find a candidate that is the living embodiment of hope. Hope beats fear 90% of the time. Obama was exactly that guy. “Yes we can”. Simple, hopeful, powerful, he made people believe and was a brilliant orator. I don’t see an obvious candidate with that platform. It would’ve been Bernie, but that ship has sailed.

The second choice is to go full cult of personality mode. You find your own Trump. A larger than life character, who produces viral soundbites and captures the imagination. Outspoken, and at times controversial. America fecking loves an anti-hero more than anything. Somebody who isn’t afraid to say whatever the feck they want, and be scant on policy around it. They take this approach, and in the right circles, they can still dig deep on strong policy platforms through their VP pick, to keep the college educated crowd on board. But their bombastic Potus pick is there to win the hearts and minds of the “average Joe”, who we have to remember is simple, pretty thick, and won’t engage in politics for more than the regulation 10-30 second sound bites.

People have been searching for deeper meaning. Examining polls. Trawling data for clues. Turning on each other. Attacking their own candidate. But the truth is incredibly fecking simple (just like the electorate):

- Policy details don’t matter in an election.
- The entire campaign has be able to be boiled down to repeatable 30 second sound bites.
- Practicality > idealism. People just want to know if they’ll have more or less money in their pocket.
- Every general issue, whether is foreign affairs, immigration, climate change etc etc., all boils down to how it will affect people financially. Again, will I have more or less money in my pocket.
- Americans generally don’t want a woman telling them what to do.
- It’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you look and sound when you say it.
- Personality >>>>>> Policy. Policies are almost irrelevant. It’s all about personality.

People don’t want Trump, not on the whole, I am largely convinced of this. But they know him and are entertained by him. To the average person, he isn’t a threat. The fact he’s a rambling simpleton makes him even less threatening. Harris is an intelligent, capable woman of colour, who has operated in every branch of government. She’s “thinky”, you can see the wheels turning, you don’t know what’s going on in there….whats she really up to? What’s she really like behind closed doors? Trump, is what you see is what you get. You can trust his untrustworthiness. But Harris, she comes across all smart and caring and shit, but behind closed doors, oooh I bet she’s a devious bitch with Machiavellian plans that I don’t understand. But that’s all the thought I can put into that, because NCIS re-runs are on, and I need to put the kids to bed.

That’s the mindset we are dealing with, that’s the level of thought and engagement most people are committing to this.

Give me a decent social media budget, an outspoken, gregarious, celebrity male between 49 and 69, and a quiet intellectual VP pick, and I’ll win ten elections out of ten for the Dems against a Trump led Republican Party. Give me an intelligent, policy driven man who’s an average speaker, and I’ll win you 8/10 vs Trump. Give me an intelligent, policy driven woman, who’s an average speaker and I’ll win you 3/10 vs Trump. Now make her black, and I’ll get you 0/10.

Dwayne Johnson could have done nothing for three months, if he’d taken over at the same time as Harris, just lifted weights and done whatever the feck The Rock does - and then come out at some point in the middle of the “campaign”, called Trump a pussy, said America needs a real man, made a couple of jokes about his probably tiny penis, taken a whole bunch of media appearances in diners and “regular Joe hangouts” with regular people, and he’d have won by a fecking landslide.

American politics is literally that simple.
Imagine Harris saying this:

"I'm smart, I went to school, I got a law degree, I ramble sometimes, bear with me."

I didn't see her once own the fact that she can be a word salad queen.
 
Clearly not enough of those 34% bothered, specially in the swing states… Her numbers are about 10 Millions under 2020-Biden… Too many potential Democrats stayed home and you can’t help thinking the genocide and the genocide related crackdown on university protests did play into it.
Deciding to let Trump into office is an interesting way of showing discontent with that decision. All they’ve done is feck Palestine further and likely shift the Democratic Party further right.
 
genocidal cnuts got their hypocritical faces shat on yet their supporters keep pretending and even try to convince others as well that they will wake up in different, darker, apocalyptic world tomorrow as if they didn't let Israel butcher the civilians for almost a year now hoping everyone will simply forget about that.

it's almost surreal to read this thead at times.
 
Deciding to let Trump into office is an interesting way of showing discontent with that decision. All they’ve done is feck Palestine further and likely shift the Democratic Party further right.
I personally agree with you but if I were a young student and I’d got beaten by the police for protesting against the genocide I would probably fail to see the difference between Trump and Harris…
 
Some Democrats have privately grumbled that the proposal would have been a tiny expenditure for an organization that had raked in more than $1 billion over the course of its 107-day campaign.
 
genocidal cnuts got their hypocritical faces shat on yet their supporters keep pretending and even try to convince others as well that they will wake up in different, darker, apocalyptic world tomorrow as if they didn't let Israel butcher the civilians for almost a year now hoping everyone will simply forget about that.

it's almost surreal to read this thead at times.
I really hope that you're right and this is one of those extremely rare situations where "at least nothing can get any worse" would actually turn out to be true.
 
genocidal cnuts got their hypocritical faces shat on yet their supporters keep pretending and even try to convince others as well that they will wake up in different, darker, apocalyptic world tomorrow as if they didn't let Israel butcher the civilians for almost a year now hoping everyone will simply forget about that.

it's almost surreal to read this thead at times.
I hope you share the same disdain for every other conflict regardless of countries involved that help to fund or supply a conflict that contributed to the deaths of many anywhere else in the world and at any other time.
 
genocidal cnuts got their hypocritical faces shat on yet their supporters keep pretending and even try to convince others as well that they will wake up in different, darker, apocalyptic world tomorrow as if they didn't let Israel butcher the civilians for almost a year now hoping everyone will simply forget about that.

it's almost surreal to read this thead at times.
Aye. They were rejected by their own base and there is one very clear reason for that.
 
God forbid I am angry because I don't want my trans child to get abused or at worse commit suicide. Stop being a dick.
This is something that is going to be occurring now throughout these next 4 yrs. The LGBTQ Community is going to be strongly targeted now by Trump and the right wing government.
It bears thinking about what sick shit they have instore.

But at least @Giggs86 will find amusement in it.
 
Given the low turnout for Harris, do you think that Biden would have done better, at least with the popular vote?

No. He was old and a lot people blame him for inflation. Dems should have run another midwestern white guy who isn't old and they might have won
 
It’s a long post. You probably didn’t read it all. The answers are contained within. That said, I respect your right to disagree, even though the umbrage you’ve taken with my post, actually belies the content.
This comes across as quite smug.

I read the whole post and did not see the answers contained within. Biden in 2020 didn't fit into either of the two categories you say would win the presidency for the Dems. Unless your post doesn't apply to the 2020 election, and only applies to this election and going forward, but that wasn't made clear at all.
 
No. He was old and a lot people blame him for inflation. Dems should have run another midwestern white guy who isn't old and they might have won
That goes to show you this county will never change. It will never progress and it will always be going two steps backwards when most of the civilized nations go two steps forward. It's a joke of a country and should never be heralded as a "great nation" It's a bloody joke and everyone should laugh at us and our stone age policies.
 
God forbid I am angry because I don't want my trans child to get abused or at worse commit suicide. Stop being a dick.
That’s such a heartbreaking response, but I am glad you made it. We have people revelling in the “meltdown” of the losing side, but given the nature of the parties involved, the real life consequences for whole groups of people will be potentially devastating with Trumps victory. This isn’t a standard winners and losers situation, the stakes are so much higher. People taking joy in other people’s misery, especially when it can be so devastating, is really disgusting.

Thank you for calling him out.
 
Yeah I don't we can come to such a conclusion given that both states and candidates are different. It would be like saying former Marine Ruben Gallegos' election is evidence Harris didn't run enough to the right.

?
He's saying Slotkin ran to her right and won, and Baldwin ran to her left and won. So you can easily add Ruben to Slotkin. The point is that ideology wasn't the deciding thing.

Kamala herself ran a mostly substance-free campaign but her main talking points were to the right of Biden 2020, didn't matter, the admin is hated. To be clear, it wouldn't have mattered if she ran to the left either.
 
That goes to show you this county will never change. It will never progress and it will always be going two steps backwards when most of the civilized nations go two steps forward. It's a joke of a country and should never be heralded as a "great nation" It's a bloody joke and everyone should laugh at us and our stone age policies.
I mean, the US just heralds itself as a great nation and if any country disagrees, they'll get punched in the nose.
 
Me getting across an entire campaign, and my opinion on it, in 700 words, shows exactly how simple it is. And my verbosity, and proclivity for intellectual debate and policy detail, would make me the worst candidate for the Dems. But I’m not promoting myself. I’m promoting an idea. One of simplicity. One could write a dissertation on how to be simple in politics, but because the description and analysis is long, it doesn’t change the ultimate output. I assume that is obvious, and you’re just trying to be clever and dismissive.

So if you can get past your own snark, and look at the core message, you might actually find something in there that you realise is right,

Trump's a Russian asset - bold opener for your 700-word ego trip. Maybe, instead of dropping your pseudo-analysis on the fine folks of RedCafe, you'd be better off chatting with a shrink. Some of us are here for actual discussion. It's that simple.
 
I'd wager lot of those who voted Biden in 2020 and stayed home this time do though.

Wasn't voter turn out higher this time round than 4 years ago? Not saying it wasn't a factor but I don't think people avoided voting in telling numbers, unless there was crazy number of first-time voters out.