2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

Andycoleno9 said:
I get anger because he won but people being surprised is strange to me.
We are all adults here. Economy and financial situation is and always will be priority for voters in every country.
Those who live well, they will choose based on opinion about other things (women rights, human rights, religion, personal preferences, immigration etc....) BUT if you struggle to pay bills during one administration, you vote for change. It is pretty simple.

Harris had campaign where she barely addressed economy.
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Agreed. Ultimately, if people are struggling (or feel that they are), they're likely to vote for change.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
He said he will fix it. :lol:

But nevermind that. My point was that average voter thinks; "I was not happy with my financial situation under blue side. Lets see what will red side do".
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And you do realize he was the one who caused inflation and dropped the ball on the pandemic and left it for Biden to deal with it. I agree people would want a change but it’s stupid to vote for a change on chance that the other person might do something about it. On top of that you’re voting for a literal fascist. The average voter needs to be a bit more smarter than this.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
When ETH was getting shit results week after week, some wanted him changed now, even if it meant interim or whatever.

But others wanted someone better to be identified before firing him. They kept asking "who is available who is better" before agreeing that ETH should be fired.

Different approaches.
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Was ETH a fascist? Your argument would make sense if there was a sane republican running not Trump.
 
Dems also were confident that Independants would break heavily for them. That does not seem to happen?

At the end of the day, people are expert at (over)analyzing losers and their solutions probably would not have changed a dam thing anyway. It is hard to imagine that Trump campaign would have been miles better than hers based on the amount of votes.

It is just what it is. Shit happens.
 
Redplane said:
Trump quotes:
"When I become president, the days of treating Israel like a second-class citizen will end on day one."

"It is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

"A vote for Kamala Harris is a vote to obliterate Israel – that’s what’s going to happen. Israel will not exist in two years."
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I don't understand your point. The poster I replied to said that now with trump gaza will burn. Gaza has been burning for a year and biden was in charge with harris as vp.
 
Someone on 5Live earlier, didn't catch the name, was saying that Trump is able to disguise his wealthy background and engage with the average blue collar voter because he doesn't do the photo ops often. He doesn't pretend to enjoy a beer at a murky bar or anything like that. It made me think about how detached politicians are from the rest of us, and how we all know it.

While it was great watching Walz, and his friendly nature, going to the small town store and chatting with the workers, seeing Harris try to have the same personable attitude just felt wooden. Trump would have been the same so he tried to avoid it as much as possible, opting to just have his grand and dumb as feck rallies where he mumbled like a madman. At least it was honest and authentic to the kind of person he was.

The main point was that Trump being Trump resonated with people and energised them to get out and vote, whereas Harris pretending to be the everywoman had the opposite effect. Nobody knew what she really stood for because she played it safe.
 
simonhch said:
Are we judging Trump by different metrics to everyone else, because whilst you level those accusations at Harris, the same can be said ten fold about Trump. Even worse, there are serious questions about whether Trump has been compromised by Putin and the Russian Intelligence services. In fact, we can almost say that’s a given at this point. So we’ve got all this vitriol aimed at an “unpresidential” candidate in Harris, but if she’s unpresidential, then what does that make Trump? The Dems are constantly held to a much higher standard than the Reps, and it’s not a standard that even helps them. People clearly don’t care if a President is “unpresidential”, that word has no meaning anymore. They’ve just elected a serial sex offender to the highest office. A guy that can barely string a coherent sentence together.

The biggest movement the Dems got in the polls was after the first appearances of Harris and specifically Walz. When he made those quips about Vance not getting off his couch etc., brief 30 second viral sound bites that had no political meaning whatsoever, but resonated in the theatre of a flame war….Harris surged in the polls. Then the political machine kicked in and the Harris campaign started talking about policies, abortion rights, geopolitics….you know, actual important issues….and people switched off. Meanwhile Donald did the usual….”China, China, Me, Me, election fraud, smartest guy ever, electric boat or a shark, immigrants are bad, China….you like my hat?”, and people voted for him in droves. He never said a single thing of any political, real world significance. Never presented anything resembling a plan. Insulted nearly everyone. He was chaos personified. And in people’s mind that’s what he came to encapsulate. A departure from politics as usual, chaos, and entertainment. No one elected the guy because they thought he was presidential or displayed good judgement.

Realistically, how does an intelligent, capable person compete in that arena? Presidents are no longer elected (and I’m not sure how much they ever were) on the basis of their policies or messaging, they are elected on the basis of personality. It’s the ultimate reality show, the business of entertainment. I bet half the people who voted for him, don’t even like him. But Kamala was a suit. Even worse, she was a woman in a suit. Scratch that, she was a woman of colour in a suit. But Trump, he was the Donald. A force of nature. Whether for good or bad. He was entertainment, he was simple, he was a person, not a political figure.

If the Dems learn anything from this, it’s that good policies don’t make good politics. Dignity and qualifications don’t make a good candidate. Men don’t want a woman telling them what to do. And the only basis on which to compete, is on personality. People don’t like Trump, but they think they understand him, and that he understands them. They see him flawed, fallible, and often incompetent, and in that they see themselves.

I’m never going to attack Harris for being an intelligent, highly capable woman, or say she was a terrible candidate, when in reality - viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence - she was ten times the candidate Trump ever was. I think the outpouring of vitriol towards her is appalling. But what is abundantly clear, is that no candidate can ever be viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence ever again. This is no longer the criteria by which Presidents are elected. It’s just really hard for intelligent people to be purposefully thick. But it’s only by understanding that the lens of judgement for all future candidates has to be the strength of their cult of personality, that the Democratic Party can be successful again.

This election was fought and won in 10-30 second sound bites on social media. There was zero communication of any meaningful content. People don’t even know where the new President really stands on any given subject. Just vague impressions of being tough on immigrants, China, and putting more money in your pockets. There is no actual plan for how to accomplish or tackle any of those things. He’s a walking infomercial.

The Dems have two choices moving forwards. The first is to find a candidate that is the living embodiment of hope. Hope beats fear 90% of the time. Obama was exactly that guy. “Yes we can”. Simple, hopeful, powerful, he made people believe and was a brilliant orator. I don’t see an obvious candidate with that platform. It would’ve been Bernie, but that ship has sailed.

The second choice is to go full cult of personality mode. You find your own Trump. A larger than life character, who produces viral soundbites and captures the imagination. Outspoken, and at times controversial. America fecking loves an anti-hero more than anything. Somebody who isn’t afraid to say whatever the feck they want, and be scant on policy around it. They take this approach, and in the right circles, they can still dig deep on strong policy platforms through their VP pick, to keep the college educated crowd on board. But their bombastic Potus pick is there to win the hearts and minds of the “average Joe”, who we have to remember is simple, pretty thick, and won’t engage in politics for more than the regulation 10-30 second sound bites.

People have been searching for deeper meaning. Examining polls. Trawling data for clues. Turning on each other. Attacking their own candidate. But the truth is incredibly fecking simple (just like the electorate):

- Policy details don’t matter in an election.
- The entire campaign has be able to be boiled down to repeatable 30 second sound bites.
- Practicality > idealism. People just want to know if they’ll have more or less money in their pocket.
- Every general issue, whether is foreign affairs, immigration, climate change etc etc., all boils down to how it will affect people financially. Again, will I have more or less money in my pocket.
- Americans generally don’t want a woman telling them what to do.
- It’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you look and sound when you say it.
- Personality >>>>>> Policy. Policies are almost irrelevant. It’s all about personality.

People don’t want Trump, not on the whole, I am largely convinced of this. But they know him and are entertained by him. To the average person, he isn’t a threat. The fact he’s a rambling simpleton makes him even less threatening. Harris is an intelligent, capable woman of colour, who has operated in every branch of government. She’s “thinky”, you can see the wheels turning, you don’t know what’s going on in there….whats she really up to? What’s she really like behind closed doors? Trump, is what you see is what you get. You can trust his untrustworthiness. But Harris, she comes across all smart and caring and shit, but behind closed doors, oooh I bet she’s a devious bitch with Machiavellian plans that I don’t understand. But that’s all the thought I can put into that, because NCIS re-runs are on, and I need to put the kids to bed.

That’s the mindset we are dealing with, that’s the level of thought and engagement most people are committing to this.

Give me a decent social media budget, an outspoken, gregarious, celebrity male between 49 and 69, and a quiet intellectual VP pick, and I’ll win ten elections out of ten for the Dems against a Trump led Republican Party. Give me an intelligent, policy driven man who’s an average speaker, and I’ll win you 8/10 vs Trump. Give me an intelligent, policy driven woman, who’s an average speaker and I’ll win you 3/10 vs Trump. Now make her black, and I’ll get you 0/10.

Dwayne Johnson could have done nothing for three months, if he’d taken over at the same time as Harris, just lifted weights and done whatever the feck The Rock does - and then come out at some point in the middle of the “campaign”, called Trump a pussy, said America needs a real man, made a couple of jokes about his probably tiny penis, taken a whole bunch of media appearances in diners and “regular Joe hangouts” with regular people, and he’d have won by a fecking landslide.

American politics is literally that simple.
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Good analysis. Where I differ is I don't think Trump is thick but, instead, that he has mastered what you point out as a really hard thing to do: being intelligent/clever but acting like you are thick as pigshit.

That whole "entertaining simpleton force of nature" you refer to, it's all an act in my opinion and he has got it spot on, even if most of the time you find yourself shaking your head when he speaks.

Agree hope beats fear, just didn't see any of that on display. Intelligent, well rehearsed, but I didn't find anything even remotely inspiring + red flags everywhere (the entire handling of Biden, no competitive process for candidate, etc). She was indeed a suit.
 
RDCR07 said:
Was ETH a fascist? Your argument would make sense if there was a sane republican running not Trump.
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People don't think that deeply into the pros and cons. Clearly a good % of American people dont look at Trump and immediatly think fascist.

They see that they have a bunch of problems, mainly rising costs. And this has happened during one party's government. So they flip it in hope of a better situation. I think the word I am looking for is anti-incumbency.
 
Honestly though, so much of this can be laid at the feet of Obama. He was granted a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a lasting governing majority in the mold of FDR. Came into office with overwhelming support and a clear mandate, but let his legislative inexperience and conservative instincts took over and failed to deliver on a signature policy (public option/M4A) or robust reforms (Glass Steagal revival/Wall St. prosecution for the financial crisis) that could've cemented the goodwill to the Dems for a generation, also failed to use the bully pulpit to communicate directly to voters in the style of the fireside chats to bypass legacy media/right wing disinformation network, or let the grassroots organisation that fueled his campaign to be dismantled and retreat from rural areas, letting Republicans recover and run unopposed in thousands of state legislative seats that won the 2010 census and created a damnningly tilted playing field for them ever since. Despite his electoral success, his party has been in rough shape ever since, riven by the established interests that adopted him and the activists wing that was the fuel for his rise, that is also increasingly marginalised and engulfed in internecine squabble themselves (Sanders/AOC being disowned by DSA)

It feels like the US have missed the boat this time, the 1939 Nazis were *in* government, the 2024 Nazis are now the government.
 
simonhch said:
Are we judging Trump by different metrics to everyone else, because whilst you level those accusations at Harris, the same can be said ten fold about Trump. Even worse, there are serious questions about whether Trump has been compromised by Putin and the Russian Intelligence services. In fact, we can almost say that’s a given at this point. So we’ve got all this vitriol aimed at an “unpresidential” candidate in Harris, but if she’s unpresidential, then what does that make Trump? The Dems are constantly held to a much higher standard than the Reps, and it’s not a standard that even helps them. People clearly don’t care if a President is “unpresidential”, that word has no meaning anymore. They’ve just elected a serial sex offender to the highest office. A guy that can barely string a coherent sentence together.

The biggest movement the Dems got in the polls was after the first appearances of Harris and specifically Walz. When he made those quips about Vance not getting off his couch etc., brief 30 second viral sound bites that had no political meaning whatsoever, but resonated in the theatre of a flame war….Harris surged in the polls. Then the political machine kicked in and the Harris campaign started talking about policies, abortion rights, geopolitics….you know, actual important issues….and people switched off. Meanwhile Donald did the usual….”China, China, Me, Me, election fraud, smartest guy ever, electric boat or a shark, immigrants are bad, China….you like my hat?”, and people voted for him in droves. He never said a single thing of any political, real world significance. Never presented anything resembling a plan. Insulted nearly everyone. He was chaos personified. And in people’s mind that’s what he came to encapsulate. A departure from politics as usual, chaos, and entertainment. No one elected the guy because they thought he was presidential or displayed good judgement.

Realistically, how does an intelligent, capable person compete in that arena? Presidents are no longer elected (and I’m not sure how much they ever were) on the basis of their policies or messaging, they are elected on the basis of personality. It’s the ultimate reality show, the business of entertainment. I bet half the people who voted for him, don’t even like him. But Kamala was a suit. Even worse, she was a woman in a suit. Scratch that, she was a woman of colour in a suit. But Trump, he was the Donald. A force of nature. Whether for good or bad. He was entertainment, he was simple, he was a person, not a political figure.

If the Dems learn anything from this, it’s that good policies don’t make good politics. Dignity and qualifications don’t make a good candidate. Men don’t want a woman telling them what to do. And the only basis on which to compete, is on personality. People don’t like Trump, but they think they understand him, and that he understands them. They see him flawed, fallible, and often incompetent, and in that they see themselves.

I’m never going to attack Harris for being an intelligent, highly capable woman, or say she was a terrible candidate, when in reality - viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence - she was ten times the candidate Trump ever was. I think the outpouring of vitriol towards her is appalling. But what is abundantly clear, is that no candidate can ever be viewed through the lens of logic and intelligence ever again. This is no longer the criteria by which Presidents are elected. It’s just really hard for intelligent people to be purposefully thick. But it’s only by understanding that the lens of judgement for all future candidates has to be the strength of their cult of personality, that the Democratic Party can be successful again.

This election was fought and won in 10-30 second sound bites on social media. There was zero communication of any meaningful content. People don’t even know where the new President really stands on any given subject. Just vague impressions of being tough on immigrants, China, and putting more money in your pockets. There is no actual plan for how to accomplish or tackle any of those things. He’s a walking infomercial.

The Dems have two choices moving forwards. The first is to find a candidate that is the living embodiment of hope. Hope beats fear 90% of the time. Obama was exactly that guy. “Yes we can”. Simple, hopeful, powerful, he made people believe and was a brilliant orator. I don’t see an obvious candidate with that platform. It would’ve been Bernie, but that ship has sailed.

The second choice is to go full cult of personality mode. You find your own Trump. A larger than life character, who produces viral soundbites and captures the imagination. Outspoken, and at times controversial. America fecking loves an anti-hero more than anything. Somebody who isn’t afraid to say whatever the feck they want, and be scant on policy around it. They take this approach, and in the right circles, they can still dig deep on strong policy platforms through their VP pick, to keep the college educated crowd on board. But their bombastic Potus pick is there to win the hearts and minds of the “average Joe”, who we have to remember is simple, pretty thick, and won’t engage in politics for more than the regulation 10-30 second sound bites.

People have been searching for deeper meaning. Examining polls. Trawling data for clues. Turning on each other. Attacking their own candidate. But the truth is incredibly fecking simple (just like the electorate):

- Policy details don’t matter in an election.
- The entire campaign has be able to be boiled down to repeatable 30 second sound bites.
- Practicality > idealism. People just want to know if they’ll have more or less money in their pocket.
- Every general issue, whether is foreign affairs, immigration, climate change etc etc., all boils down to how it will affect people financially. Again, will I have more or less money in my pocket.
- Americans generally don’t want a woman telling them what to do.
- It’s not WHAT you say, it’s HOW you look and sound when you say it.
- Personality >>>>>> Policy. Policies are almost irrelevant. It’s all about personality.

People don’t want Trump, not on the whole, I am largely convinced of this. But they know him and are entertained by him. To the average person, he isn’t a threat. The fact he’s a rambling simpleton makes him even less threatening. Harris is an intelligent, capable woman of colour, who has operated in every branch of government. She’s “thinky”, you can see the wheels turning, you don’t know what’s going on in there….whats she really up to? What’s she really like behind closed doors? Trump, is what you see is what you get. You can trust his untrustworthiness. But Harris, she comes across all smart and caring and shit, but behind closed doors, oooh I bet she’s a devious bitch with Machiavellian plans that I don’t understand. But that’s all the thought I can put into that, because NCIS re-runs are on, and I need to put the kids to bed.

That’s the mindset we are dealing with, that’s the level of thought and engagement most people are committing to this.

Give me a decent social media budget, an outspoken, gregarious, celebrity male between 49 and 69, and a quiet intellectual VP pick, and I’ll win ten elections out of ten for the Dems against a Trump led Republican Party. Give me an intelligent, policy driven man who’s an average speaker, and I’ll win you 8/10 vs Trump. Give me an intelligent, policy driven woman, who’s an average speaker and I’ll win you 3/10 vs Trump. Now make her black, and I’ll get you 0/10.

Dwayne Johnson could have done nothing for three months, if he’d taken over at the same time as Harris, just lifted weights and done whatever the feck The Rock does - and then come out at some point in the middle of the “campaign”, called Trump a pussy, said America needs a real man, made a couple of jokes about his probably tiny penis, taken a whole bunch of media appearances in diners and “regular Joe hangouts” with regular people, and he’d have won by a fecking landslide.

American politics is literally that simple.
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Great post.
 
Chip said:
That's actually an interesting angle - a lot of people will surely feel that she hadn't earned her candidacy. And tbf, she would probably never have been in contention.

One thing is sure: if you think that democracy is key and you voted for Trump you are an idiot.
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Idiot this idiot that. You aint winning an election calling your voters names.

People are so sick being shot down and being labelled they appeal to Trump. Whenever a republican air serious issue instead of tackling it they got lumped with deplorables and dozens of Trump memes. It's exhausting to read after a while and stopped being funny long time ago.

You cant questioned anything Kamala comes up with, the best response you'll get is a long and winding "but trump is worse", it doesnt matter how many relatives of yours we'll bomb, that guy would be much worse so vote for us.

And it's not like Dems are actually much better beyond the soundbytes. They say things they forgot after winning the election.

Sucks but a vote is a vote. That's democracy.

Untill the demography changes or some savvy democrats can embrace a slice of that demography they ain't gonna win it.

It's one thing being vindicated in an echo chamber, it's another living out there with 1 republican in 2 people you meet daily, or at worst 1 in 3 in some states

Trump attacks the politicians figures, he didnt attack the voters.
 
Sky1981 said:
Idiot this idiot that. You aint winning an election calling your voters names.

People are so sick being shot down and being labelled they appeal to Trump.

Trump attacks the politicians figures, he didnt attack the voters.
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Oh someone doesn’t see the irony here.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I get anger because he won but people being surprised is strange to me.
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Agreed. I see why they are surprised though, its just they are wrong to be surprised.

Numerous left wing media channels/outlets/pundits spent weeks putting out content like "Trump Rally is EMPTY" and "Trump is Losing". Outside of their bubble it was obvious that Trump had huge support. I don't understand the logic of them trying to claim Trump was unpopular or what they hoped to gain from that. Maybe they thought it'd convince swing voters that there team is the winning team? Doesn't strike me as a good strategy.

I see similarities to the Brexit campaign, Boris Johnson becoming PM, the rise of Reform/Farage and arguably Tommy Robinson's recent popularity. The left portray the opposition as a non-credible threat, and then act surprised when that threat turns out to be a credible threat. The left needs to recognise what its up against and produce a stronger campaign against it. I think that involves a much greater emphasis on economic change, cost of living and quality of life for working class and middle class. Both in the US and UK.
 
RDCR07 said:
And you do realize he was the one who caused inflation and dropped the ball on the pandemic and left it for Biden to deal with it. I agree people would want a change but it’s stupid to vote for a change on chance that the other person might do something about it. On top of that you’re voting for a literal fascist. The average voter needs to be a bit more smarter than this.
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Ah, now i remember why i avoid debates about politics. I have centre political orientation so i am "hated" by both sides usually. Ha ha.

Left side will say that Trump is a fascist and right side will say that he is, i don't know....big patriot? Left side say he is against women rights and right side will say that he has "family values". And so on...

As i said; at the end, people who are unhappy with their life standard will always want a change. Unless current administration convince them how they will change things. Harris barely touched that topic.
So, why would they pick left administration again? I wouldn't. I gave you a chance and you failed me. I am going to try with orange dude.
 
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TheGame said:
What did you expect him to say? They lost the election.
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I don't know, maybe something more forceful in along the lines of 'we need to hold the incoming administration accountable for their actions and ensure that the fundamental rights of Americans are not infringed upon'?

You see that playbook from the GOP all the time, screaming about free speech and 2nd amendment anytime a Democrat is in power. Why is it so hard to maintain a consistent message, instead of vacilitating between 'they are an existential threat to our institutions' and ' we must work together in harmony'? No wonder everybody that used to support them is getting whiplash from cognitive dissonance.
 
simonhch said:
Thanks chaps. You know those moments when your clarity of vision, and passion for a topic coalesce? Well, this election, and this post, was it for me. It’s the nose that’s been sitting on my face the entire time, but I was blinkered by my own intellectual lens. A fate that I feel has befallen most of us on here. Being intelligent, logical, critical thinking, these are the qualities that make discussions with like minded individuals on here rewarding, but they are also the qualities that make us blind to simplistic reality of the arena we are attempting to comment on. The only thing defeating democrats, are democrats, and more specifically their dogmatic adherence to social and political norms. But all identity construction is essentially social in nature. So to successfully construct a “winning” identity, one has to first understand the social construct. And a core, fundamental component of that is the incredibly limited window of engagement available, and the simplicity of the processing capabilities at the other end.

“Grab him by the pussy” might not be a dignified, intelligent, politically correct or relevant campaign mantra, but in the reality of US politics, it would be a winning one. Trump positions himself as an alpha male. Well, stick him next to Dwayne Johnson, calling him a pussy, and his entire schtick is gone. 30 seconds soundbites on “tough on crime” (easy sell with the Rock), “tough on drugs” (easy sell), “self made man, American dream” (easiest sell ever), “Love America, Mr. Patriot” (this is too easy), “America’s the greatest country on earth” (like candy from a baby), “I’ll kick the ass of our enemies” (come on, give me challenge!). Etc etc etc.

Perceptions of strong leadership qualities. Camera friendly. Tough, yet positive and hopeful. Male vote. Black vote. Dem vote. Huge cross party appeal. You can’t question his patriotism, his manliness, you can’t fill a room (literally and figuratively) better than you can with the Rock. And, he does that thing that Americans want an American president to do, he projects strength.

It’s seriously alarming on so many levels that the best candidate, far and away, that I can think of for the Dems is a former WWE star, and current action movie star, who is roided to the tits. But that sentence right there is the entire encapsulation of the American political landscape. The fact people are debating whether it’s Newsome or Shapiro next, just shows how badly they are missing the point of how political engagement is digested by the masses in America today.

At this point the President is just a marketing figurehead to get the political apparatus in place that you want to govern. He’s (because let’s be honest, it’s not going to be a she) the equivalent of a “Huge Savings! 50% off” banner to get people in the store, where once inside, the real business begins. That’s the presidential campaign. “Massive tax cuts - today only”, “Be better off - vote now”, “ROCK the establishment - vote Johnson”, “Can you smell the [tax] cuts I’m cooking?”

There is no policy, there is only marketing. And the marketing is personality. It’s entertainment. Its familiarity. You don’t even need to agree with him to vote for him. And you certainly don’t need to like him, not in the traditional sense. You just need to be entertained or intrigued by him, and above all else, you can’t be bored by him. That’s the Trump secret. And that’s American politics.
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Looking back it is a locker room talk. Like we says shits in her handbag. If one of use becomes POTUS nominee and somehow they dig at our shit on her handbag comment.

And we're talking about American male voters here.

One man's crude remarks is another's damn right shin in her handbag, go get em bro!
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The main point was that Trump being Trump resonated with people and energised them to get out and vote, whereas Harris pretending to be the everywoman had the opposite effect. Nobody knew what she really stood for because she played it safe.
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He didn’t grow his support compared to 2020. Back then he lost by a good margin. This time he won.

When 10-15 million voters don’t show up to support your opponent, you will win. Trump won two elections when the turnout was low, but lost the one with high turnout.

I suggest not to give him superhuman attributes. He’s a capable candidate and hard to beat, but let’s not make too much of 1-2% wins in three states.

And let’s be honest, he never faced a 55-60 year old white man.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Ah, now i remember why i avoid debates about politics. I have centre political orientation so i am "hated" by both sides usually. Ha ha.

Left side will say that Trump is a fascist and right side will say that he is, i don't know....big patriot? Left side say he is against women rights and right side will say that he has "family values". And so on...

As i said; at the end, people who are unhappy with their life standard will always want a change. Unless current administration convince them how they will change things. Harris barely touched that topic.
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How is this the “left” calling him a fascist? His own VP called him Hitler. His own staff from his administration called him fascist. But yeah he definitely is a “big patriot”.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I don't know, maybe something more forceful in along the lines of 'we need to hold the incoming administration accountable for their actions and ensure that the fundamental rights of Americans are not infringed upon'?

You see that playbook from the GOP all the time, screaming about free speech and 2nd amendment anytime a Democrat is in power. Why is it so hard to maintain a consistent message, instead of vacilitating between 'they are an existential threat to our institutions' and ' we must work together in harmony'? No wonder everybody that used to support them is getting whiplash from cognitive dissonance.
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Yeah I can agree with you there I suppose.
I think he may be just trying to act noble in defeat. Let’s hope there is better holding them to account going forward.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
He didn’t grow his support compared to 2020. Back then he lost by a good margin. This time he won.

When 10-15 million voters don’t show up to support your opponent, you will win. Trump won two elections when the turnout was low, but lost the one with high turnout.

I suggest not to give him superhuman attributes. He’s a capable candidate and hard to beat, but let’s not make too much of 1-2% wins in three states.

And let’s be honest, he never faced a 55-60 year old white man.
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Sorry if it came across like that, but I'm not saying he was brilliant in any way. I'm just saying that because he was honest about how much of a dick he is it managed to resonate with enough voters. Whereas Harris just didn't do enough to energise her base, which would have been enough to beat this moron.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Sorry if it came across like that, but I'm not saying he was brilliant in any way. I'm just saying that because he was honest about how much of a dick he is it managed to resonate with enough voters. Whereas Harris just didn't do enough to energise her base, which would have been enough to beat this moron.
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A Democrat will never get away with what a Republican (especially Trump) can get away with.

I read the long post few pages back, and I see what that poster was saying. But, imagine Harris/Democrat not behaving presidential or offering policy solutions, and think of the past three months:
1. “Harris is not talking about her policies”
2. “Voters want to hear more SPECIFICS about her policies”
3. “Voters want to know what she would do if she’s elected… more details.”

We heard that a million times. Those who made these statements didn’t make the same demands of Trump.

Now, you have those who say “policies don’t matter… just be a d*ck and someone to enjoy a beer with.” Do people really believe that Harris would have gotten away with that approach?

The Democrat will always be held to totally different standards, not just by the right-wing media, but also by the mainstream media, political pundits, politicians, operatives and so on.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
A Democrat will never get away with what a Republican (especially Trump) can get away with.

I read the long post few pages back, and I see what that poster was saying. But, imagine Harris/Democrat not behaving presidential or offering policy solutions, and think of the past three months:
1. “Harris is not talking about her policies”
2. “Voters want to hear more SPECIFICS about her policies”
3. “Voters want to know what she would do if she’s elected… more details.”

We heard that a million times. Those who made these statements didn’t make the same demands of Trump.

Now, you have those who say “policies don’t matter… just be a d*ck and someone to enjoy a beer with.” Do people really believe that Harris would have gotten away with that approach?

The Democrat will always be held to totally different standards, not just by the right-wing media, but also by the mainstream media, political pundits, politicians, operatives and so on.
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Exactly and she did talk so much about her policies and she released specifics about her policies and details on how she manages to accomplish those policies. But people are so lazy to do a google search to educate themselves yet they complain and whine.

Also agree on the fact that it’s always up to the dems to be morally righteous and always do the right thing. That’s how fecked and normalized the right wing of this country has become that the onus is always on the left to be the bigger person.
 
RDCR07 said:
Exactly and she did talk so much about her policies and she released specifics about her policies and details on how she manages to accomplish those policies. But people are so lazy to do a google search to educate themselves yet they complain and whine.
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Doomed if she does not offer details… doomed if she does.
 
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