2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

Suedesi said:
He's crooked, senile, incoherent and the country is run by his un-elected handlers. What the Dems are doing to Biden is elderly abuse, he needs to be in a retirement home somewhere, not working 60-70hr weeks.
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Much better a much ypunger trump that didnt show to breifings and was golfing every weekend
 
gaffs said:
In the short term. But they have been a major factor in inflation.
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Not a major factor at all. Most estimates had stimulus at maybe 0.5 to 1.0% contribution which wouldn't really qualify as major. The two major factors were the supply chain fallout from COVID and Russia invading Ukraine which contributed the bulk of the increase in inflation worldwide. By comparison the stimulus was a perfectly acceptable and beneficial tradeoff.
 
Carolina Red said:
The country can't be run by his un-elected handlers due to his mental state AND Biden be working 60-70 hour work weeks.

Your post here is no different than the Trumpers argument that he's both senile AND a criminal mastermind that rigged an entire election.
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Did i read trump is a mastermind of anything?
 
iamking said:
I read this and laughed out loud at how far away this is from reality. The easiest step in the immigrant entry process is writing the civic test. It is clearly given to people who have been selected to become immigrants to learn about the country. Like the brochure you get after you enter the zoo. It is sometimes better to refrain from saying things we are not aware of.



Also, comparing this to Jim Crow has to be the most ridiculous media narrative parroted here by many users. I have discussed about the merits of this test at length with Raoul in the previous conversations. Jim Crow era is the darkest part of American History remnants of which is still impacting modern black americans in many forms. However, tying this to literacy test has to be the kind of demagoguery absurdity used by politicians to obfuscate things.

Black Americans were maimed/lynched/burnt alive for getting near any form of literacy or books. Even learning basic alphabets was a rarity among the black community and even that was considered to be a serious threat by the racists in the Jim Crow era. Conducting literacy tests during this era was patently racist and cynical with the only intention of denying their voting rights.
Now lets compare this with Vivek's test: This test mandates young voters age of 18 of ALL colors/religion/race etc. to learn about their country and its governance before they vote, similar to the half a million immigrants who take these tests every year or else serve in first responder positions or wait to vote till 25, and this is mentioned in the year 2023 not 1965 and has nothing to do with race. These two are the same because the questions are identical? Have some sense of proportion and reality in criticizing something. The rest of the people chirping here have to research their contents better and stop making fancy headline idealism hyperboles to curb honest analysis.

Also stop lecturing about ad-hominem. It will take seconds to learn what it is by googling. It means, your argument is about a person than their position. Any half-witted person would know that in this forum apart from very few matured posters most of them have nothing to say in terms of substance and readily jump the gun at the other person without understanding their position using their own moral hypocrisy to judge and bash the person in order to cover up their own ignorance -ad hominem right there. Also, when I said childish posters (like yourself), it would definitely be ad-hominem but I was also stating the facts.
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Why not all voters? Or voters over 65? Or rural voters in areas were education is lagging behind? Or just the poorly educated? Age is a very weird and arbitrary metric to draw the line.
 
Imagine calling those who disagree with one's blather 'childish.' Imagine being that person.
 
Suedesi said:
He just nods, stumbles around and signs whatever is put on his desk.
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Unlike other presidents who are subject matter experts on everything put on the desk and can read 100 or 1000 pages of reports, analyze and understand every word and predict futures and impacts and only then proceed to sign it?
 
iamking said:
Now lets compare this with Vivek's test: This test mandates young voters age of 18 of ALL colors/religion/race etc. to learn about their country and its governance before they vote,
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Of all ages too?
 
calodo2003 said:
Imagine calling those who disagree with one's blather 'childish.' Imagine being that person.
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Yeah, it's clear he's not capable of defending his views so it's an easy way to ignore the multitude of good points he can't address.
 
Krakenzero said:
Of all ages too?
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Yes. he wants all of them to take the civic test and this is only a practical start point.

Also, lets get the truth about Biden here. I voted for Biden only because it was Trump on the other side. There were only two candidates fighting for presidential election in the last term. Trump vs Anybody but Trump. I refuse to believe anybody would have picked Biden against any other candidate but Trump. Democrats could have had a donkey standing against Trump, I would have voted for that donkey for Trump is the most divisive, 3rd rate inhuman demagogue the country has ever seen. He has done more damage to the country than any single politician has in the recent history of US.

That said, if somebody asked me who was the worst president of this century, my answer would be Biden. Tell me why somebody like Biden was selected to represent Democrats last election, while they have somebody brilliant like Pete Buttigieg. I will tell you why - He is a non-gay white christian and this is an undeniable fact. Despite his genuine inability to string two sentences together he was nominated as the presidential candidate by the Democrats for what? because he was great at the debates? because he is a brilliant career politician with great policies? Naah. It's because the supposed woke and LGBTQ progressive Democrats didn't want to select Buttigieg like candidates because they need the racist/religionist/non-LGBTQ anti woke votes. Nothing else. Why is Kamala Harris a VP? on Merit? She is a brilliant prosecutor and could have done something good with the Justice Department. But why is she VP Candidate and I will tell you why, its because of the we-are-not-racist democratic party choosing a person without any merit in the name of woke. For some reason this is considered highly progressive. The hypocrisy is stunning. A truly progressive state as the great MLK put it should identify an American only based on the content of his character not the color of his skin.

Biden's policy have been absolutely disastrous for the country, because his vision is severely limited by his vote bank. Its much worse than Trump on many counts and that should say something. He had the senate in control and I wanted him to go all out and make a change and guess what he has done so far. Absolutely nothing. If I have to vote between Vivek and vote bank collecter Biden, its Vivek for me and its not even a competition. Vivek is a flawed politician sure, but he is definitely better than the I-will-please-people-without-doing-what-I-promised Biden.
 
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iamking said:
I am ignoring lazy questions. You can research it yourself. Once you have figured out how he is planning to do it, we can discuss it here.
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See, your problem here is that I know how it can happen… and I know it isn’t something the President has the power to do.
 
Carolina Red said:
I still don’t know what you’re trying to ask me here bud.
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Well, now the joke is off. But I was joking on you calling Trump a mastermind that as per definition: " a person with an outstanding intellect "
 
Carolina Red said:
See, your problem here is that I know how it can happen… and I know it isn’t something the President has the power to do.
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The way you go about it, if you genuinely want to share ideas instead of i want to win this argument, is to educate me as to why it can't happen and then point out to his hypocrisy. i would respect that. Instead you pose it as some kinda test - you say something and I will say gotcha, that way we don't have to discuss the policy anymore and call out the person's capacity in this matter to reduce all his ideas to nothing. Its not healthy - Just a suggestion.
 
iamking said:
The way you go about it, if you genuinely want to share ideas instead of i want to win this argument, is to educate me as to why it can't happen and then point out to his hypocrisy. i would respect that. Instead you pose it as some kinda test - you say something and I will say gotcha, that way we don't have to discuss the policy anymore and call out the person's capacity in this matter to reduce all his ideas to nothing. Its not healthy - Just a suggestion.
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How’s Vivek going to amend the Constitution?
 
Carolina Red said:
How’s Vivek going to amend the Constitution?
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Just like every other politician. First make it the cornerstone of your election. Then win the primary. Then win the election. The likelihood of it going through the congress will depend on how well he performs in the election. And if not congress then he can push it through some sympathetic state's legislature to see how it performs and then convince it at the congress level. We have to wait and see. Why do you ask?
 
iamking said:
I am ignoring lazy questions. You can research it yourself. Once you have figured out how he is planning to do it, we can discuss it here.
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Why not start with people over 65? Or poorly educated rural voters? Why use an arbitrairy metric like age while there are many more logical starting points?

Are people who fail no longer obliged to pay tax? No tax without representation and all that.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Why not start with people over 65? Or poorly educated rural voters? Why use an arbitrairy metric like age while there are many more logical starting points?

Are people who fail no longer obliged to pay tax? No tax without representation and all that.
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I can't speak for him, But my sense is that there will be bigger resistance and harder to implement from the top as it expects people who have already been voting to go through some hoops and will become contentious as voter suppression. Doesn't sound practical. But for 18 year olds, they are just getting started and change has to start from there. Having seen the contents of these tests online, I am certain any high school kid will be able to clear it with minimal effort as long as they are vested in it. This is my understanding.
 
iamking said:
The way you go about it, if you genuinely want to share ideas instead of i want to win this argument, is to educate me as to why it can't happen and then point out to his hypocrisy. i would respect that. Instead you pose it as some kinda test - you say something and I will say gotcha, that way we don't have to discuss the policy anymore and call out the person's capacity in this matter to reduce all his ideas to nothing. Its not healthy - Just a suggestion.
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To change the voting rights (so that 18-25 age group cannot vote until they do Vivik’s test) it requires a constitutional change, so an amendment. That requires a supermajority on both chambers, plus 3/4th of states.

Even if Vivek somehow wins, there is 0 chance that GOP gets to 67 senators, 300+ representatives and 39 state legislatures.

In other words, there is no chance of this happening. It is the usual nonsense that populist candidates say.
 
I would recommend iamking and others to read:

U.S. Constitution - Fifteenth Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote
Exclusion from Primaries and Literacy Tests | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote in greater detail
U.S. Constitution - Twenty-Sixth Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Voting age

What vivek is suggesting with a civic test for aged 18-25 would in fact hinder citizens right to vote and thus is completely unconstitutional in nature. Anyone over the age of 18 got the constitutional right to vote as can seen in the link 3. This type proposal have no constitutional basis to ever be made.
 
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iamking said:
Just like every other politician. First make it the cornerstone of your election. Then win the primary. Then win the election. The likelihood of it going through the congress will depend on how well he performs in the election. And if not congress then he can push it through some sympathetic state's legislature to see how it performs and then convince it at the congress level. We have to wait and see. Why do you ask?
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That’s not how the amendment process works.
 
I’m shocked that this fascistic nonsense idea is also entirely impossible and never going to happen.

Sadly the repubs have plenty of other such voter suppression methods nailed down.
 
iamking said:
I can't speak for him, But my sense is that there will be bigger resistance and harder to implement from the top as it expects people who have already been voting to go through some hoops and will become contentious as voter suppression. Doesn't sound practical. But for 18 year olds, they are just getting started and change has to start from there. Having seen the contents of these tests online, I am certain any high school kid will be able to clear it with minimal effort as long as they are vested in it. This is my understanding.
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I'm quite sure there will be unprecedented resistance from all over the world over implementing it for 18-25 year olds as well, since it's a very clear infringement on voting rights, but with his rationale (wanting to make sure only informed people vote) a much better case could be made for people from states with poor educational records.

And even then, politics and (inter)national policy making is very complicated. This civics test that any high school kid can clear doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of measuring someone's understanding of politics.

Encouring young people to take an interest in politics is great, but putting obstacles in front of people before they can vote is a ridiculous notion, especially in light of the spirit of the US' founding fathers. That's what makes it so ridiculous, Vivek is talking about heritage and people needing to understand the principles on which the country was build, but this idea is the exact opposite of that.

And once again, one of the principles of the colonists; no tax without representation. Are people who fail the test no longer obliged to pay taxes? Because a government levying taxes from people who aren't allowed a say in politics is as unamerican as French fries with mayonaise.

Of course it doesnt matter, because even if he is elected (he has no chance), there is no way he will ever (ever ever ever) get this through. Of course he knows this, as all populists do.
 
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Red Viking said:
I would recommend iamking and others to read:

U.S. Constitution - Fifteenth Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote
Exclusion from Primaries and Literacy Tests | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote in greater detail
Exclusion from Primaries and Literacy Tests | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Voting age

What vivek is suggesting with a civic test for aged 18-25 would in fact hinder citizens right to vote and thus is completely unconstitutional in nature. Anyone over the age of 18 got the constitutional right to vote as can seen in the link 3. This type proposal have have no constitutional basis to ever be made.
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Bingo.
Rado_N said:
I’m shocked that this fascistic nonsense idea is also entirely impossible and never going to happen.
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Right? Wild how that works
 
Red Viking said:
I would recommend iamking and others to read:

U.S. Constitution - Fifteenth Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote
Exclusion from Primaries and Literacy Tests | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - The right to vote in greater detail
Exclusion from Primaries and Literacy Tests | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - Voting age

What vivek is suggesting with a civic test for aged 18-25 would in fact hinder citizens right to vote and thus is completely unconstitutional in nature. Anyone over the age of 18 got the constitutional right to vote as can seen in the link 3. This type proposal have have no constitutional basis to ever be made.
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"Change the constitution duh!!!"

That was the plan as per another post :D
 
Revan said:
To change the voting rights (so that 18-25 age group cannot vote until they do Vivik’s test) it requires a constitutional change, so an amendment. That requires a supermajority on both chambers, plus 3/4th of states.

Even if Vivek somehow wins, there is 0 chance that GOP gets to 67 senators, 300+ representatives and 39 state legislatures.

In other words, there is no chance of this happening. It is the usual nonsense that populist candidates say.
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^ also a bingo
 
iamking said:
Yes. he wants all of them to take the civic test and this is only a practical start point.

Also, lets get the truth about Biden here. I voted for Biden only because it was Trump on the other side. There were only two candidates fighting for presidential election in the last term. Trump vs Anybody but Trump. I refuse to believe anybody would have picked Biden against any other candidate but Trump. Democrats could have had a donkey standing against Trump, I would have voted for that donkey for Trump is the most divisive, 3rd rate inhuman demagogue the country has ever seen. He has done more damage to the country than any single politician has in the recent history of US.

That said, if somebody asked me who was the worst president of this century, my answer would be Biden. Tell me why somebody like Biden was selected to represent Democrats last election, while they have somebody brilliant like Pete Buttigieg. I will tell you why - He is a non-gay white christian and this is an undeniable fact. Despite his genuine inability to string two sentences together he was nominated as the presidential candidate by the Democrats for what? because he was great at the debates? because he is a brilliant career politician with great policies? Naah. It's because the supposed woke and LGBTQ progressive Democrats didn't want to select Buttigieg like candidates because they need the racist/religionist/non-LGBTQ anti woke votes. Nothing else. Why is Kamala Harris a VP? on Merit? She is a brilliant prosecutor and could have done something good with the Justice Department. But why is she VP Candidate and I will tell you why, its because of the we-are-not-racist democratic party choosing a person without any merit in the name of woke. For some reason this is considered highly progressive. The hypocrisy is stunning. A truly progressive state as the great MLK put it should identify an American only based on the content of his character not the color of his skin.

Biden's policy have been absolutely disastrous for the country, because his vision is severely limited by his vote bank. Its much worse than Trump on many counts and that should say something. He had the senate in control and I wanted him to go all out and make a change and guess what he has done so far. Absolutely nothing. If I have to vote between Vivek and vote bank collecter Biden, its Vivek for me and its not even a competition. Vivek is a flawed politician sure, but he is definitely better than the I-will-please-people-without-doing-what-I-promised Biden.
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How is Biden's policy 'absolutely disastrous for the country?' How did he break his promises?

Why is it so difficult for you to expound on one of your vitriolic statements?
 
iamking said:
I am ignoring lazy questions. You can research it yourself. Once you have figured out how he is planning to do it, we can discuss it here.
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You undoubtedly consider yourself very erudite, but you are using the most inevitable & weak escape hatch here.

Children use the 'DYOR' hatch.
 
Imagine wanting to die on the hill of insisting that 18-25 year olds (except arbitrary "first responders") have to take a test to vote.

Oh and the take that Biden is the worst President of the 21st century ignoring Bush and the War on Terror and Trump.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Imagine wanting to die on the hill of insisting that 18-25 year olds (except arbitrary "first responders") have to take a test to vote.

Oh and the take that Biden is the worst President of the 21st century ignoring Bush and the War on Terror and Trump.
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Bizarre, isn't it?
 
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