2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

[oneniltothearsenal]

The other thing to take into account is that Israel is an issue rising in importance to a few segments of voters that, while small in relation to total population, are still relevant compared to the margins Biden won in swing states.

@Raoul, if I remember, you said back in November that by summer and the conventions everyone would have forgotten about Israel. I believe you said this because, like myself and many others, you believed Israel would retaliate and be out of Gaza within 2-3 months. Israel has far exceeded in duration and brutality what I think most people believed would happen back then.

So ideally, the Dems do not want someone that will bring the issue even more into the spotlight for groups like Muslims in Michigan or Gen Z potential voters in every swing state since they need the biggest turnout there they can muster.

 

[Beachryan]

Anyway, I see Trump has unilaterally decided to move the debate to his safe-space, with no fact checkers and his friends as moderators. Real brave guy.

It's sh*t like that makes me just question how it's possible he reacted how he did in the asassination attempt, even though I'm 100% it was real.

 

[Raoul]

The other thing to take into account is that Israel is an issue rising in importance to a few segments of voters that, while small in relation to total population, are still relevant compared to the margins Biden won in swing states.

@Raoul, if I remember, you said back in November that by summer and the conventions everyone would have forgotten about Israel. I believe you said this because, like myself and many others, you believed Israel would retaliate and be out of Gaza within 2-3 months. Israel has far exceeded in duration and brutality what I think most people believed would happen back then.

So ideally, the Dems do not want someone that will bring the issue even more into the spotlight for groups like Muslims in Michigan or Gen Z potential voters in every swing state since they need the biggest turnout there they can muster.

Its definitely dragged on much longer than expected, but seems to have completely fallen out of the media cycles at this point (same with Ukraine for the most part). Therefore, unless something unexpected happens in the next few months, the main focus will still be the economy/jobs/inflation, the border, and one or two other domestic issues.

 

[Raoul]

Anyway, I see Trump has unilaterally decided to move the debate to his safe-space, with no fact checkers and his friends as moderators. Real brave guy.

It's sh*t like that makes me just question how it's possible he reacted how he did in the asassination attempt, even though I'm 100% it was real.

He's obviously scared. Can't blame him given how Harris debates.

I would question whether we actually need a debate at this point. Beyond the entertainment spectacle of it all, we already know where both of them stand on all the issues, especially since she has already debated Pence and has the entire Biden policy record on her CV now.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Its definitely dragged on much longer than expected, but seems to have completely fallen out of the media cycles at this point (same with Ukraine for the most part). Therefore, unless something unexpected happens in the next few months, the main focus will still be the economy/jobs/inflation, the border, and one or two other domestic issues.

But it hasn't fallen out of the consciousness of a few important voting blocks, relative to Bidens victory margin in 2020, in swing states and as I said, it's rising in importance even if some media are trying to keep it out of the public conversation at the moment.

And you combine that his support of vouchers, not being pro union at a critical time, and a potential cover up of a me too scandal and my conclusion is that he simply is not going to enthuse democrat voters to turn out as much as someone like Walz or Beshear.

 

[Raoul]

But it hasn't fallen out of the consciousness of a few important voting blocks, relative to Bidens victory margin in 2020, in swing states and as I said, it's rising in importance even if some media are trying to keep it out of the public conversation at the moment.

And you combine that his support of vouchers, not being pro union at a critical time, and a potential cover up of a me too scandal and my conclusion is that he simply is not going to enthuse democrat voters to turn out as much as someone like Walz or Beshear.

I would have no complaints if she selects Walz, Pete, or Kelly. Beshear doesn't strike me as a national level guy.

 

[DOTA]

Has there been any more Pete buzz? I think one of you posted something yesterday about a meeting between him and Harris, has there been any further rumblings or was that just an isolated shred of hope for the Pete fan club (and indeed my own anti-Pete/pro-Pete one) ?

 

[Raoul]

Has there been any more Pete buzz? I think one of you posted something yesterday about a meeting between him and Harris, has there been any further rumblings or was that just an isolated shred of hope for the Pete fan club (and indeed my own anti-Pete/pro-Pete one) ?

I believe she met with him for 90 minutes yesterday and his meeting some the others over the weekend. Decision expected by Tuesday.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Has there been any more Pete buzz? I think one of you posted something yesterday about a meeting between him and Harris, has there been any further rumblings or was that just an isolated shred of hope for the Pete fan club (and indeed my own anti-Pete/pro-Pete one) ?

Going by my own view of the headlines, it looks like Beshear or Shapiro as favorites with Walz and Kelly in the tier below that. I'm not seeing a lot of Mayo Pete speculation.

 

[DOTA]

Going by my own view of the headlines, it looks like Beshear or Shapiro as favorites with Walz and Kelly in the tier below that. I'm not seeing a lot of Mayo Pete speculation.

Been a while since I've seen that one around! Do you think it's to blame for the horrific amount of fake tan he's on these days?

 

[Mike Smalling]

Been a while since I've seen that one around! Do you think it's to blame for the horrific amount of fake tan he's on these days?

I've always thought it's a reference to his rather bland and inoffensive personality.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I've always thought it's a reference to his rather bland and inoffensive personality.

I’m not American but from the outside he comes across really well in interviews. His oratory skills are far better than Biden’s ever were or Harris’ are from the limited amount I’ve seen of her.

 

[DOTA]

I've always thought it's a reference to his rather bland and inoffensive personality.

I do think that was a big part of it.

 

[SirAF]

Been a while since I've seen that one around! Do you think it's to blame for the horrific amount of fake tan he's on these days?

Buttiegieg is on a horrific amount of fake tan? Can't say I've noticed.

 

[DOTA]

Buttiegieg is on a horrific amount of fake tan? Can't say I've noticed.

Orange man bad.

 

[SirAF]

Orange man bad.

Nah

 

[nimic]

I've not seen anyone saying he's the logical or enough best choice. What I see is people trying to say he's a non-starter because of his previous support of Israel and something he wrote 30 years ago. Personally, he's last on the list of vetted candidates for me. But I also think he's only being attacked in the way he is (on here) because he's Jewish, and the Gazan situation is more animating on redcafe than any other world topic.

For example, he struggles with unions and that would be a much larger needle mover, politically, than anything he wrote in college.

In this thread?

 

[calodo2003]

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Hopefully she laughs in his stupid face. Agreeing to this would be madness. Muted microphones, no audience, live fact checking: that's the minimum demand.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

There is only one candidate for VP who can drive the youth in endless waves to the polls, who can unite the country, bridge every divide, and that candidate is:

Spoiler

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

The other thing to take into account is that Israel is an issue rising in importance to a few segments of voters that, while small in relation to total population, are still relevant compared to the margins Biden won in swing states.

@Raoul, if I remember, you said back in November that by summer and the conventions everyone would have forgotten about Israel. I believe you said this because, like myself and many others, you believed Israel would retaliate and be out of Gaza within 2-3 months. Israel has far exceeded in duration and brutality what I think most people believed would happen back then.

So ideally, the Dems do not want someone that will bring the issue even more into the spotlight for groups like Muslims in Michigan or Gen Z potential voters in every swing state since they need the biggest turnout there they can muster.

The irony of all this is that it's like Harris is a hostage negotiator, and the hostages (those opposed to what Israel is doing) are fighting the person trying to save them. That they would think a second Trump administration would be anything other than an epic disaster for them is truly staggering.

 

[Eriku]

There is only one candidate for VP who can drive the youth in endless waves to the polls, who can unite the country, bridge every divide, and that candidate is:

Spoiler

Interesting shout. She’ll have just turned 35, would be hard for anybody to become the youngest ever prez after that.

 

[WI_Red]

There is only one candidate for VP who can drive the youth in endless waves to the polls, who can unite the country, bridge every divide, and that candidate is:

Spoiler

Depend on if she needs to be 35 before the election or before assuming office she either makes or misses it by a month.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I’m not American but from the outside he comes across really well in interviews. His oratory skills are far better than Biden’s ever were or Harris’ are from the limited amount I’ve seen of her.

I don't know. He's certainly a very effective communicator in interviews, but I don't see him as an exciting speaker at rallies or someone that can really make his mark in a debate with multiple candidates.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I'd steer clear if I was Harris. He comes across as a bit of an elitist bureaucrat, which has become anathema to US politics in some ways. He might be from Indiana, but he screams DC.

 

[calodo2003]

There is only one candidate for VP who can drive the youth in endless waves to the polls, who can unite the country, bridge every divide, and that candidate is:

Spoiler

That's someone I can get behind.

 

[utdalltheway]

What a puss. Harris should stand her ground and call him out for his antics.

 

[WI_Red]

That's someone I can get behind.

I bet you would

 

[Morty_]

What a puss. Harris should stand her ground and call him out for his antics.

She should tell him he can have his Fox debate, after he shows up at ABC.

Who's words will be trusted more, i think is obvious.

 

[Mike Smalling]

George Slopadopoulos tickles me for some reason. Then I remember this guy could be the next POTUS.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

That's someone I can get behind.

I bet you would

Spoiler

 

[africanspur]

I just don't see the purpose here. There are many posters on this forum for whom Palestine is literally the most important thing in the world. That's fine. But this is a thread about the future US President, in a race between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. The last two pages have been almost exclusively from Palestinian focussed posters basically lamenting that no choice is pro-Palestinian enough. Fine. I get that. I'm hugely in favour of completely reconsidering the federal taxation system, ripping it up and starting again so that we can finally start to address the surging wealth inequality that will one day tear apart the nation. But I know I'm not going to find that in the candidates and parties on offer, so I'm not posting daily about it, or digging out tweets or what not.

As someone that is pretty well-versed in US politics I can very confidently say: it is NOT the most important issue in this election to voters, no matter how much some think it should be. And therefore I don't believe we should be attacking the one Jewish candidate obstensibly because of his religion. I also don't think the same people doing the attacking would stand for that if he weren't Jewish.

The purpose is to talk about what they are passionate about. It is very literally the purpose of a forum. I agree that in certain threads, it can end up almost taking over basically but I do not actually think this is the case here, as it is more of a to and fro (and including other posts on other candidates, other policy outlooks from him), as opposed to a wall of non stop tweets.

Nobody has said it is the most important issue in this election for the majority of American voters. Literally nobody. What has been said is that it might be an important issue for a substantial portion of the Democrat base.

To say that Shapiro is being 'attacked' (as opposed to people just literally quoting stuff he himself has said and done) because of his religion is both incorrect and frankly pathetic.

 

[africanspur]

He is so ridiculously pathetic. His rambling soliloquies now sound even more pathetic up alongside someone who isn't even more senile than he is.

 

[africanspur]

I've not seen anyone saying he's the logical or enough best choice. What I see is people trying to say he's a non-starter because of his previous support of Israel and something he wrote 30 years ago. Personally, he's last on the list of vetted candidates for me. But I also think he's only being attacked in the way he is (on here) because he's Jewish, and the Gazan situation is more animating on redcafe than any other world topic.

For example, he struggles with unions and that would be a much larger needle mover, politically, than anything he wrote in college.

Raoul has literally been saying essentially that in this thread?

And you come steaming in and effectively saying that any criticism of him, particularly when it comes to his stances on the conflict (in the context of him having previously made some, let's be frank, racist comments about Arabs as a 20 year old) must be anti-semitic.

As I said, in the situation where there's an Arab American called Abbas who's governor of Florida and a potential VP pick and it comes out that he's written an article years ago saying that Jews are too battle minded to accept peace, cant create a state and are essentially too violent and dumb to do so, its going to come up as a potential reason for why some groups may not be so happy about him. And this isn't anti-Arab, every politician gets stuff they've written or said before flagged the more well known they become. And it will be expected that Abbas makes some kind of comment repudiating those views (if its not a Trump like blowhard candidate).

Agreed on the unions point.

 

[Raoul]

She should tell him he can have his Fox debate, after he shows up at ABC.

Who's words will be trusted more, i think is obvious.

Beyond the ratings spectacle, what would be the point. She should stick to her guns that they have to debate based on previously agreed to conditions of ABC hosting. If he doesn't want to do it, then he will be perceived as the one ducking it, not her. Moving it to Fox is a non-starter since Trump is simply trying to set up a farcical 2016 type situation where he paraded all of Bill Clinton's former accusers at the debate to intimidate Hillary. There's no need for any of that nonsense this time, particularly, if Harris is in front by the debate date.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Beyond the ratings spectacle, what would be the point. She should stick to her guns that they have to debate based on previously agreed to conditions of ABC hosting. If he doesn't want to do it, then he will be perceived as the one ducking it, not her. Moving it to Fox is a non-starter since Trump is simply trying to set up a farcical 2016 type situation where he paraded all of Bill Clinton's former accusers at the debate to intimidate Hillary. There's no need for any of that nonsense this time, particularly, if Harris is in front by the debate date.

Agree, there's also the problem that going on Fox News somehow legitimizes that circus. Trump wants the circus, he wants the wrestling type crowd booing and cheering his every rambling thought. Harris should refuse and keep the conditions the same as before.

 

[Raoul]

Agree, there's also the problem that going on Fox News somehow legitimizes that circus. Trump wants the circus, he wants the wrestling type crowd booing and cheering his every rambling thought. Harris should refuse and keep the conditions the same as before.

The hope is she gets a couple slight polling bumps following her VP choice and another after her convention speech, so she doesn't need to rely on a debate to make any more progress. I suspect Trump will be doubly desperate and unhinged by then if he's trailing in the rust belt states.

 

[Raoul]

 

[africanspur]

I imagine how much she'll want to engage with the debates and these histrionics will depend to some extent on how internal polling is looking in the key battleground states and how much she feels she needs to move the needle.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It's in the hole!

 

[Raoul]

I imagine how much she'll want to engage with the debates and these histrionics will depend to some extent on how internal polling is looking in the key battleground states and how much she feels she needs to move the needle.

Agreed. The debate is a bit of a banana skin for both candidates, which is why they're jostling about whether to hold it on ABC or Fox. Trump knows that she will be calling him out for any number of things, which he probably thinks he can mitigate if the debate is on Fox and he can have his raucous supporters there to boo her. Predictably thin skinned stuff.