2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

Mike Smalling said:
She got 1,279 votes in probably the most blue area in the country :lol:

I subscribe to the idea that the results in general have shown weaknesses for Trump, but the D.C. results hardly matter. Wake me up when she wins an actual state.
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An L is an L, especially when a virtuwl incumbent is involved.
 
The Supreme Court keeps Trump on the ballot.

We only have ourselves to defend our democracy.
 
At least this time we know he's gonna win, I guess.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
The Supreme Court keeps Trump on the ballot.
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It's worse than that.

calodo2003 said:
Unanimous decision as well.
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Only in the judgement regarding states specifically.

Sadly the judgement goes further than that. A majority (5-4) invented new rules and explicitly dictated the mechanism federal institutions must use in order to remove federal candidates in the future. They have essentially decreed that a court judgement is not enough. It will now require a specific act of congress. This insulates Trump should he be found guilty of insurrection in a court of law prior to the election. The Supreme Court is essentially legislating.

Here are the opinions: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

Here's the relevant part:

Sotomayor/Jackson/Kagan said:
Yet the Court continues on to resolve questions not before us. In a case involving no federal action whatsoever, the Court opines on how federal enforcement of Section 3 must proceed. Congress, the majority says, must enact legislation under Section 5 prescribing the procedures to “ascertain what particular individuals” should be disqualified…These musings are as inadequately supported as they are gratuitous...

...Ultimately, under the guise of providing a more “complete explanation for the judgment,” the majority resolves many unsettled questions about Section 3. It forecloses judicial enforcement of that provision, such as might occur when a party is prosecuted by an insurrectionist and raises a defense on that score. The majority further holds that any legislation to enforce this provision must prescribe certain procedures “‘tailor[ed]’” to Section 3, ruling out enforcement under general federal statutes requiring the government to comply with the law. By resolving these and other questions, the majority attempts to insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their holding federal office.
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Who would have thought RBG not giving up her seat voluntarily so she could die on the job and enable the GoP to effectively abolish the rule of law would be a bad idea? Only about any reasonable person outside of the Dems.
 
HTG said:
Who would have thought RBG not giving up her seat voluntarily so she could die on the job and enable the GoP to effectively abolish the rule of law would be a bad idea? Only about any reasonable person outside of the Dems.
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I think many Dems probably saw it as well, but it’s not like they could force her out.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I think many Dems probably saw it as well, but it’s not like they could force her out.
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If they saw it, they did very little to prevent the very thing that just happened. It doesn’t even matter how they would have done it. It needed to be done. Desperately. Instead they proved their believe that some moronic traditions and rules from a time, where getting older than 60 was impressive, should dictate their society. Which is sheer stupidity.
 
HTG said:
If they saw it, they did very little to prevent the very thing that just happened. It doesn’t even matter how they would have done it. It needed to be done. Desperately. Instead they proved their believe that some moronic traditions and rules from a time, where getting older than 60 was impressive, should dictate their society. Which is sheer stupidity.
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I think RBG, the Dem leadership and indeed most Dem voters thought Clinton would walk the election so this would be a non-issue. To be fair, though, even if RBG had wanted to resign during that final year Mitch would have held up her replacement - just as he did with Scalia's.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
It's worse than that.



Only in the judgement regarding states specifically.

Sadly the judgement goes further than that. A majority (5-4) invented new rules and explicitly dictated the mechanism federal institutions must use in order to remove federal candidates in the future. They have essentially decreed that a court judgement is not enough. It will now require a specific act of congress. This insulates Trump should he be found guilty of insurrection in a court of law prior to the election. The Supreme Court is essentially legislating.

Here are the opinions: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

Here's the relevant part:
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As I see it the thing is, the founding arguments of representative democracy are that:

A) the representatives elected for the people by the people are esentially statesmen that put the country, its people and its constitution above everything, especially above themselves, and wouldn't go against any of them neither against the rule of law;
B) If A fails, a group of peer statesmen representatives elected for the people by the people will correct course via legislative power, taking measures that could go even to impeachment and removal from office;
C) If A and B fail, the people will punish these statesmen in periodical elections, removing from power those who have betrayed their trust;
D) If everything else fails, there's a separate group of non partisan statesmen fully devoted to the rule of law that have the legal resources to punish those in power who abuse their power, the people, the constitution and the laws.

So when all of the above fails, then what's left of representative democracy?
 
I brought up the disdain that Biden’s handling of the war has engendered among Arab Americans and young Democrats. “I don’t want to see any Palestinians killed—I think that it’s contrary to what we believe as Americans,” he said. But he urged his critics to wait. “I think they have to give this just a little bit of time, understanding what would happen if they came into their state or their neighborhood and saw what happened with Hamas,” he said. “The pressure on the leadership to move with every ounce of capacity against Hamas is real. But it doesn’t mean it should be continued. It doesn’t mean it’s right. And so, I think you’re going to see—I’m praying you’re going to see—a significant downturn in the use of force.”
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When I asked one of Biden’s political advisers how much disillusionment over the war will matter, he said, “The single biggest thing is whether it’s a three- or four-month thing—or does it go on longer?”
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Mike Smalling said:
I think many Dems probably saw it as well, but it’s not like they could force her out.
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And yet, GOP seem to be able to retire their justices earlier. If Trump wins and GOP gain the senate (the later is almost surely to happen if Trump wins cause of VP vote), I think it is likely to see Clarence and Alito resign.
 
Revan said:
And yet, GOP seem to be able to retire their justices earlier. If Trump wins and GOP gain the senate (the later is almost surely to happen if Trump wins cause of VP vote), I think it is likely to see Clarence and Alito resign.
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True. First of all, Republicans are clearly not averse to giving and accepting bribes. Take John Oliver’s latest segment on the SCOTUS for the absurdity of Clarence Thomas in particular. So if Trump is reelected they will either step down because of what they owe their mega donors or they will receive something on top.
Second, the likes of RBG and Biden have an inflated view of their importance to the point, where they end up becoming a hindrance to progress instead.

What’s that old line? Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. They are simply better at the game.
 
Mike Smalling said:
True. First of all, Republicans are clearly not averse to giving and accepting bribes. Take John Oliver’s latest segment on the SCOTUS for the absurdity of Clarence Thomas in particular. So if Trump is reelected they will either step down because of what they owe their mega donors or they will receive something on top.
Second, the likes of RBG and Biden have an inflated view of their importance to the point, where they end up becoming a hindrance to progress instead.

What’s that old line? Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. They are simply better at the game.
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Dunno. Dems have been pretty disciplined to be fair. Schumers for example has had total control over the senate, and both Pelosi and Jeffries had full control over their conference, far better than GOP leaders (except McTurtle).

I think RGB just had an inflated opinion of herself and desperately wanted a female president to replace a female scotus with another female scotus. Which means that now abortion is not allowed in some states.

I haven’t checked John Oliver’s latest episode, but I’ll note that he is as biased as someone can be.
 
HTG said:
If they saw it, they did very little to prevent the very thing that just happened. It doesn’t even matter how they would have done it. It needed to be done. Desperately. Instead they proved their believe that some moronic traditions and rules from a time, where getting older than 60 was impressive, should dictate their society. Which is sheer stupidity.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/...e_code=1.aE0.RUCv.KjOWik5eof3T&smid=url-share

President Obama met with Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, hinting at retirement, but the art of nudging justices off the court is politically delicate and psychologically complicated.
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Krakenzero said:
As I see it the thing is, the founding arguments of representative democracy are that:

A) the representatives elected for the people by the people are esentially statesmen that put the country, its people and its constitution above everything, especially above themselves, and wouldn't go against any of them neither against the rule of law;
B) If A fails, a group of peer statesmen representatives elected for the people by the people will correct course via legislative power, taking measures that could go even to impeachment and removal from office;
C) If A and B fail, the people will punish these statesmen in periodical elections, removing from power those who have betrayed their trust;
D) If everything else fails, there's a separate group of non partisan statesmen fully devoted to the rule of law that have the legal resources to punish those in power who abuse their power, the people, the constitution and the laws.

So when all of the above fails, then what's left of representative democracy?
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Not much. I think the curtain came down once and for all with the Citizens United judgement. US is pretty much a hybrid state somewhere between an oligarchy, democracy and corporatocracy.
 
Cute that Lake is trying to moderate her stance on abortion, or trying(and failing miserably) to make amends with McCain family/voters.

She overplayed her hands last time, Arizona is not red enough that you can get away with anything, i think the voters there will remember that.
 
I agree broadly, but the polls were not exactly accurate in 2020 and probably not in 2016. They very well could be wrong. It's just insane for the campaign to believe that and say it publicly.
 
At this point I'm not sure who is worse: Biden or his campaign staff. The levels of ineptitude to be losing to this Donald Trump are staggering.

It's easy and sometimes right to complain about the media eco-system being biased (it is) but these people are paid a lot of money to play that game, and they're watching from the sidelines as their team loses. It's bizarre. Biden has absolutely tons of money to be spending on campaigns, but for some reason isn't starting early.

Just air videos of Trump over the weekend, the man's brain is utterly broken. If independents still want to vote to for that mess I'll be shocked. I'd also be airing ads showing that the Trump broke the supreme court, broke abortion and oh yeah, committed insurrection. I don't care that he was impeached, I'd have the fact that the majority of both houses - including X and Y republicans voted for his impeachment. I'd make sure every single voter in America knew those stats. I'd juxtapose images of wildfires and hurricane damage with his sharpie moment and 'science doesn't know' about climate change comments. Play over and over again his clip of being a dictator on day 1.

It's honestly child's play. It's fish in a barrel stuff.
 
Frosty said:
Does this mean Biden won't win the popular vote nationwide? Surely that won't be the case.
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That would be truly shocking. He could well win the Electoral College, but Trump has to make up a 6 million vote deficit from 2020 to win the popular vote. Can't see that happening.

On another note, the election system in the US is dumb.
 
GDaly95 said:
Didn't the polling predict a Clinton win in 2016? And a much bigger Republican win in 2022 including control of the senate?
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I don't think it's correct to say polls were accurate in 2016 or 2020. What you can say is that the size of the polling error was not historically large and therefore the polls were not particularly inaccurate which is something very different.
 
FAO everyone: SPOILER ALERT!

Donald Trump will sweep tonight.

PSA to quell the fever dreams.
 
I’m guessing Haley was hoping Trump would get caught up in legal issues and she could step in. With the recent judgement from Supreme Court, there’s no need for Hayley to continue
 
iKnowNothing said:
I’m guessing Haley was hoping Trump would get caught up in legal issues and she could step in. With the recent judgement from Supreme Court, there’s no need for Hayley to continue
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Think you're right. She might be eyeing the trial coming up in NY in three weeks if anything, but wouldn't be surprised to see her jettison tonight or tomorrow.
 
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