2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

So the strategy is now, ha! JD Vance says weird contradictory things!

Surely at some point the democrats will realise that the republican cult simply doesn't care? They'll just say nuh-uh and move on.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So the strategy is now, ha! JD Vance says weird contradictory things!

Surely at some point the democrats will realise that the republican cult simply doesn't care? They'll just say nuh-uh and move on.
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It's more for swing voters / independents.

Since Trump is 300 years old it's good to remind people his VP has said a bunch of ultra-conservative and weird things.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So the strategy is now, ha! JD Vance says weird contradictory things!

Surely at some point the democrats will realise that the republican cult simply doesn't care? They'll just say nuh-uh and move on.
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Gotcha is a boring game, but you're taking the wrong perspective on this. That cult will not change no matter what happens, so thinking about them for the fall elections would be a complete waste of time for the Dems. (Long-term, sure; short-term, no.) They need to address the people on the fence. They know Trump inside and out, so there isn't huge gain possible there (apart from reminders of the negatives), but Vance is an unknown that's now being defined to the public. So this is really the moment to make really clear where he stands on societal issues, in hopes that that will rub off on Trump and voting choices.
 
Cheimoon said:
Gotcha is a boring game, but you're taking the wrong perspective on this. That cult will not change no matter what happens, so thinking about them for the fall elections would be a complete waste of time for the Dems. (Long-term, sure; short-term, no.) They need to address the people on the fence. They know Trump inside and out, so there isn't huge gain possible there (apart from reminders of the negatives), but Vance is an unknown that's now being defined to the public. So this is really the moment to make really clear where he stands on societal issues, in hopes that that will rub off on Trump and voting choices.
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That's fair enough. Also as @Iker Quesadillas said, should Trump die in office this is the replacement.

Imagine that, a Twitter ragebait troll as POTUS.
 
KirkDuyt said:
That's fair enough. Also as @Iker Quesadillas said, should Trump die in office this is the replacement.

Imagine that, a Twitter ragebait troll as POTUS.
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Like Palin previously. Incredibly irresponsible choices, but then they're putting Trump forward as the main candidate, so...
 
I don’t think Vance is really that bad for what he is, but more for what he isn’t. People put off by Vance will already have been put off by Trump, so it’s more the opportunity missed to balance the ticket or shore up a specific swing state.
 
If Trump loses in November, Vance will surely be viewed as a bigger disaster than Palin, because unlike this election, 08 was an election republicans never could win anyway, i don't think.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I don’t think Vance is really that bad for what he is, but more for what he isn’t. People put off by Vance will already have been put off by Trump, so it’s more the opportunity missed to balance the ticket or shore up a specific swing state.
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Bergum would've done that for Trump. An anomymous, agreeable Pence like conservative who would've taken the VP issue off the table for Trump. As it stands, I'd be surprised if Trump doesn't consider making a change before the election.
 
Raoul said:
Bergum would've done that for Trump. An anomymous, agreeable Pence like conservative who would've taken the VP issue off the table for Trump. As it stands, I'd be surprised if Trump doesn't consider making a change before the election.
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That would be an incredible showing of weakness. Trump would show indecisiveness and poor judgement in the lead up to November. Some would even say he is deferring to the MSM that are really coming after Vance.

Anything is possible, but I’d be very surprised.
 
Mike Smalling said:
That would be an incredible showing of weakness. Trump would show indecisiveness and poor judgement in the lead up to November. Some would even say he is deferring to the MSM that are really coming after Vance.

Anything is possible, but I’d be very surprised.
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It would. But the alternative is for Trump to continue to be disappointed in Vance's lack of popularity.
 
Mike Smalling said:
That would be an incredible showing of weakness. Trump would show indecisiveness and poor judgement in the lead up to November. Some would even say he is deferring to the MSM that are really coming after Vance.

Anything is possible, but I’d be very surprised.
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Then again, we are talking about news cycles that goes to next subject so fast that even an assasination attempt is no longer the main story, less than a week after it happened.

Few will remember that Vance was replaced, if it happens soon.
 
Morty_ said:
Then again, we are talking about news cycles that goes to next subject so fast that even an assasination attempt is no longer the main story, less than a week after it happened.

Few will remember than Vance was replaced, if it happens soon.
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Very true. I still think Trump is too proud to do it, but it would definitely be really funny.
 
Raoul said:
It would. But the alternative is for Trump to continue to be disappointed in Vance's lack of popularity.
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What would be the consequences behind the scenes though? Vance represents some pretty powerful backers. Wouldn't it hurt Trump if those soured on him? Because replacing Vance would put a serious dent in his career.
 
Cheimoon said:
What would be the consequences behind the scenes though? Vance represents some pretty powerful backers. Wouldn't it hurt Trump if those soured on him? Because replacing Vance would put a serious dent in his career.
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Ultimately its still a cult and Trump is the leader. If someone like Thiel pulls his funding, there are others who will step in, because Republicans know they can't afford to lose to Harris.
 
Raoul said:
Ultimately its still a cult and Trump is the leader. If someone like Thiel pulls his funding, there are others who will step in, because Republicans know they can't afford to lose to Harris.
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Yeah, but it seems like Thiel c.s. are planning to take over the party from within. How would they take the frustration?

Also, do you mean losing in general or to Harris specifically? If so, why? Cause she'd likely be a lock for the next elections then as well?
 
Cheimoon said:
Yeah, but it seems like Thiel c.s. are planning to take over the party from within. How would they take the frustration?

Also, do you mean losing in general or to Harris specifically? If so, why? Cause she'd likely be a lock for the next elections then as well?
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The entire silicon valley thing is a bit overblown imo. Thiel is like most wealthy donors. He wants to buy influence for policies he deems helpful to his own financial intererests. If one high net worth benefactor doesn't contribute, there are many others from other industries who will. In the past that has ranged from Carl Icahn to Sheldon Adelson and beyond.

On the second bit, they obviously want to get back into the WH to prevent Dem policies from continuing in the next four years. That's everything from climate change to border policy to energy/drilling to reducing corporate tax rates to SCOTUS nominees etc.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
It's amazing how wrong I seem to have been about the assassination attempt being the defining campaign moment and sealing a Trump second term. That stuff feels like a data point fro a year ago.
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It's remarkable, isn't it. Biden's stepping down and the renewed energy in the Democratic Party have changed the momentum.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
It's amazing how wrong I seem to have been about the assassination attempt being the defining campaign moment and sealing a Trump second term. That stuff feels like a data point from a year ago.
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Also saw a recent NH poll where Harris was well up with numbers resembling Biden's 2020 win margin. Hillary and Trump were basically tied there in 16.
 
Ultimately, presidential candidates are the primary influencers in deciding the election outcome, obviously. I think vice presidential picks are mainly chosen for legislative purposes, such as persuasion or playing roles like 'good cop, bad cop.'

Talking about Vance's past and present actions is interesting and reveals his character, but it likely has little impact on the overall race. And Trump won't dump him.
 
VorZakone said:
It's remarkable, isn't it. Biden's stepping down and the renewed energy in the Democratic Party have changed the momentum.
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There will be even more momentum when she announces her VP and yet more after the convention. That will give them less than a month before early voting starts.
 
Also, how many people are going to be like "mmm I was going to vote for Donald fecking Trump, but his VP is a bit of a cnut, so now I won't"?
 
Raoul said:
Also saw a recent NH poll where Harris was well up with numbers resembling Biden's 2020 win margin. Hillary and Trump were basically tied there in 16.
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I still don't get how Trump can have a slight national lead over Harris, if state polling is kinda okay for her.

Too early to conclude much though.
 
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