Hurry up Maniak. I want to go in and console my 9 year old daughter because they had a school lock down and was rushed in to the bathroom to hide and wait. Why should we consider a party who wetdreams over the Handmaid Tale while putting an AR15 in a 10 year Olds hand for a Xmas card?
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Are the Democrats a clear and present danger to democracy in this country?
What has happened in the last three years that would lead you to advise the American voter to not vote for Democrats but vote republican?
What happened under 4 years of trump (that resulted in multiple crimes being committed) that you think we should consider going back to?
Maybe we should just tell our daughters to accept it because Joe didn't bring the Middle East conflict to an end and Hunter is a little shady.
@maniak you should remember that you (like me, not a US citizen!) will be responsible for every bad thing trump does if you don't vote for trump.
but biden voters don't have any culpability in joe's little adventure killing 20000 people, just because they voted for and support the guy who is funding and arming and providing military and diplomatic cover for it. their hands are clean. the thought of personal responsibility for biden's actions- so easy when it insinuating that somebody who doesn't support trump is responsible for trump's actions - doesn't even cross their mind.
but biden voters don't have any culpability in joe's little adventure killing 20000 people, just because they voted for and support the guy who is funding and arming and providing military and diplomatic cover for it. their hands are clean. the thought of personal responsibility for biden's actions- so easy when it insinuating that somebody who doesn't support trump is responsible for trump's actions - doesn't even cross their mind.
So who will the Republicans fund? The Palestinians? Be honest, you don't give a feck about it outside of preaching on the internet
And that's small fecking potatoes to my children's safety and well being. There is no peace in that region of the world so what can i do about it, nothing. I live here mate so keep that sanctimonious crap your yourself.
We do not have democracy in the US currently. What we have is a plutocratic kleptocracy that is dressed up as democracy.
Way do I say this? Congress does what it wants to help itself become rich and it doesn't matter what the people want.
Politicians listen to rich people
If you want to dive deep into how bills and laws are made and passed read up on ALEC.
What is ALEC?
It's quite disturbing.
So I may be a little lost in the plot, but I don't remember at which point the Biden administration started to bomb orphans. People are losing the plot a little bit.
I might add that people casually saying things like that is at the same time A) only feasible in a functioning democracy with freedom of speech and B) used and abused by the guys who already tried to put an end to that type of government, nearly succeeded 80 to 100 years ago, and are still on the go these days (as what happened on the very first day of Biden's tenure shows). Let's try to be a little be more responsable with our words as they tend to create realities.
I might add that people casually saying things like that is at the same time A) only feasible in a functioning democracy with freedom of speech and B) used and abused by the guys who already tried to put an end to that type of government, nearly succeeded 80 to 100 years ago, and are still on the go these days (as what happened on the very first day of Biden's tenure shows). Let's try to be a little be more responsable with our words as they tend to create realities.
" the guy who is funding and arming and providing military and diplomatic cover "
sorry, i will correct myself. freedom of speech is important, and hence, we should not speak freely.
Thanks for proving my point. Any criticism of Biden is automatically invalid because Trump.
Can you quote a post of mine that indicates I like trump? I think there's a name for what you're doing, it starts with straw and ends with man.
It's feckin terrifying and if the two parties functioned on a reasonable level a vote for a sane third party or a no vote would be acceptable to some extent
But that's not the case and anybody that has payed attention to what the republican party has become would fight tooth and nail to stop them obtaining a level of control that would allow them to enact horrendous legislation that should not be accepted in a western democracy.
The thinking that I have commented on above is a factor in us now having an extremist Supreme Court and a lunatic fringe in the house making a mockery of any sense of decorum.
I would love a ticket of Newsom and AOC ramming every fecking peace of common sense reform down America's throat. We don't, so I have to pick between an old center right git or a fecking lunatic that would destroy everything just to try prove every lie in his head to himself.
Every republican running this cycle will say behind closed doors (if trump is the nominee)the election was certainly not stolen but will say in public it was. How is that any alternative to voting for an admittedly docile party in a two party system. I'm shocked that after eight years and everything that has happened some people don't get that.
I would vote for a candidate I like, like I've done my entire life.
You don't even have a point. You have a grievance and no matter how loud you shout it won't affect you because you've no skin in the game. You don't even consider how families like mine are affected. The Biden administration has done far more than you would ever consider giving them credit for.
Ohhhh, someone you like, how beautiful for you. Personally I don't like Biden too much but I'm smart enough not to vote for a cnut like trump. Or sit at home being a whiney bitch because an 80 year old didn't bring peace to the most dangerous region on the planet.
Some might say that with great power comes great responsability. But anyway, it's become more evident now that people will need grim reminders from time to time as apparently the attempted coup based on false claims from less than three years ago (or of course, you know, actual war) wasn't enough.
Yeah I have a grievance, I don't like leaders that support genocide. Very radical view, I know. Why exactly should I be more concerned about your family than the families torn apart by american bombs?
Just asking questions yet to be answered. Guaranteed you don't have an answer.
I have never missed an election in my entire life. I have been part of multiple associations that are politically active, I have helped in a number of charities and I have volunteered my time and money for causes that I support. Sometimes I sit and home and whine a little bit. I will never leave my morals and principles at the door of the voting center, though. So yeah, it's beautiful for me that I always vote in a person or party that will do things I believe in and that I support.
If i was an American, would i take AOC over Biden as president? Absolutely, but who is president doesn't adress the fundamental problem with US democracy though, the US senate.
States with very small populations holds most of the power, and unfortunately, most of them are red states.
Unless you deal with this nonsense-institution, things wont really change.
Your questions are a bit silly because they seem to assume I would vote for trump. I hate that scumbag and would never vote for him. But I also have no sympathy for people who excuse the dreadful behavior of their guy.
You are using a tragedy from a region of this planet that will never find peace to give a bit of mouth to people that have to weigh up a lot of shit in an upcoming election. One that doesn't affect you in the slightest. But you say I have the problem because my children are under constant threat from gun violence and the theft of their own bodies.
If you think the general public in this country are anymore responsible for American bombs and a filthy foreign policy than British people are for colonialism or Germans for facism then you are very mistaken. Surely you are smart enough to know that.
I agree with what you are saying in respects to what's being happening in Palestine but that will never sway me from voting for my families safety and well-being here. It's seems that you and ther other guy just don't give a shit about that at all.
So every person and party you voted for has fulfilled all you dreams and wishes 100%.
Edit: has gun violence, reproductive rights or right wing coups been on the political agenda where you vote?
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It'll never happen unless the people living in the red states stomp it out. So never.
I guess its impossible to abolish it, but its possible to level the playing field somewhat, next time dems gets a trifecta, they can't sleep on Puerto Rico and DC statehood, they have to get it done.
yes, guns and abortion are a masssive problem, which is why one should vote for democrats. after all, the democrats have had 2 trifectas in recent memory, and have passed many massive gun control and pro-abortion legislations like ____ and even ____!
be serious. you are using super-emotive language and then berating others for sanctimony. you are talking about changes that will take literally decades (gun control is fully in the hands of the SC which is 6-3, and will remain republican possibly until we are both dead) to allude to today's problems. for all the talk of pragmatism, that isn't a pragmatic outlook. if your sincere focus is on these issues, you have to be looking at 3-4 successive democratic presidents, something that last happened with fdr, and frankly, given that biden's latest approval poll is at bush 2007 levels, it looks a tough prospect.
e - "bring peace to a part of the world that is at war" is such hilarious framing. nobody is asking this senile man to negotiate anything. god i hope he stays away from that. the minimum being asked of him is to, quoting myself again, stop "funding and arming and providing military and diplomatic cover".
They need some fecking balls though. To get these things they need to play dirty and I don't think they know how. They are legislative cowards while the other side are legislative terrorists. Voting in this country is very frustrating because no election promise is solid and anything that comes to fruition usually involves a hand off or years of political scare mongering and frivolous law suits.
To sit it out is folly though, to not vote for Democrats against Republicans at this moment in this country is like looking at a cake and thinking it looks tasty but I won't eat it because I don't like the taste if flour. Too much is at stake, especially for young people of this shithole.
I think if Trump was President, that is exactly what we would have seen: double the death toll with an even more extended bombing campaign so greater than 60% of the infrastructure destroyed.
On the other end, in the fantasy world where Bernie was somehow President, it's hard to guess how much more he could have reined in the right-wing Israeli government. Probably would have leaned on them more than Biden but could a Bernie Presidency have meant maybe half the death toll? Possibly, but I think that's tougher to imagine than Trump doubling it the other way. For me at least.
Blah blah blah. You are like a broken record. Let's not try people, berbatrick thinks it'll take a hundred years to make any significant progress on anything that most of the countries in the world don't consider a major problem. Jesus man, you sure do let a right wing extremist party get away with so much in your comments while spending the majority of your time giving shit to the opposite side for trying to do something, anything to improve our situation here.
Well done pal and good luck in the impeachment, I hope Hunter's dick pic brings the whole system crashing down.
The thing that amuses me the most is that some in here consider the democrats to be epitome of evil. They are the most benign, beige, white bread party I've ever witnessed in my life. Every failure listed is true. Some is due to their naivety and not rock the boat attitude and some is down to the other party roadblocking and manipulating a lage portion of voters through a right wing media juggernaut.
Both are greedy cnuts who are at the beck and call of the investor class. No difference to most politicians elsewhere except for the system they function in.
Both are greedy cnuts who are at the beck and call of the investor class. No difference to most politicians elsewhere except for the system they function in.
This thread is such a train wreck and misses a lot of ground truths. But that’s par for the course for the CE forum.
The 60% of the destroyed housing stock was at the end of the ceasefire, before they started their more intensive bombing of places like Khan Younis. God knows what it is now.
It is however why I was asking generally how much more brutal could the war have been within just the 2 months that have happened so far, short of a nuke or a very rapid Rwanda style genocide? The scale of killing and destruction combined is already I think genuinely unprecedented in the last few decades.
What are the most brutal wars in the very recent past? Yemen and Syria? We're already at more people displaced than Yemen, I imagine more housing stock destroyed and a similar number of people killed (scaled by population). For a war that's taken 2 months so far as opposed to 9 years and a humanitarian catastrophe. Syria we're at more displaced and about 40% of the casualties, for a 10 year war with great actors like Assad, Russia, ISIS, AQ, Hezbollah involved. Difficult to compare Ukraine as the numbers vary so massively. Should probably include project anfal as well there.
So again, excuse me if I'm going to disagree. I'm not even saying that the situation wouldn't have been worse under Trump, who knows. We don't even know because he actually generally didn't get involved during his presidency.
But the war is already ridiculously brutal and there genuinely isn't much more to destroy. So I'm not massively open to the idea that Biden has been a big moderating factor when he continues to provide weapons, military protection, money and diplomatic cover and basically all Israeli politicians are saying the Americans can suck it and they'll do what they want both now and after.
Of course, there are concerns about the electoral system in the US, and the influence of money in politics.
What most of this discussion boils down to, however, is this. Do you believe that the country as a whole, and the political system, will be better off if Biden is elected rather than Trump (given that they are the candidates, of course)? To me, that is a clear yes. And that also makes voting for him a worthwhile activity. Voting for Trump, or not voting at all, because of Biden's flaws is just pure nihilism, in my opinion.
This, much more than Israel-Gaza, is something Biden isn't going to meaningfully change in any way.
In all seriousness: if you are concerned about Biden losing votes due to Gaza and want to persuade people to support him, the starting point should be: treat the matter with the gravity it deserves. Acknowledge people's legitimate grievances. Don't try to tell them that it doesn't matter because it's happening "over there", that Biden has no responsibility or agency on the matter, or any other position that amounts to "this is not a real issue."
It's hard not see this stuff as an identity struggle. A certain class of Democrats have seen themselves as the saviors of 'democracy' against 'fascism' and 'foreign interference' since the election of Trump. They're not merely casting a vote, they're keeping the barbarians at bay.
That identity has taken a beating after Biden's actions re: Gaza.
Yes, I'm using a tragedy to judge the protagonists that have the power to do something about it. I don't like seeing little children being blown up in gaza, yemen or afghanistan, and Biden's administration has been helping or directly killing in all 3 scenarios. Why should I, as a portuguese living across the ocean, care more about american families than afghani families?
I'm not criticizing the way you vote, if you like Biden or think he's good to your family, go ahead. My original point was that a lot of people who call themselves liberals or even leftists, seem to completely "well what you gonna do" their way out of any debate regarding all the horrible shit Biden does across this planet (and even at home), because Trump is even worse. This will, in my opinion, normalize some behaviors even more and make thing progressively worse.
Your point about people being responsible is an interesting one. We spent the last couple of months hearing about how gazan civilians are in part responsible for what's happening because they voted for hamas. We've heard that russian citizens should be treated differently because of what putins is doing in ukraine.
Why shouldn't voters in democratic countries hold at least a little bit of responsibility of what their governments do? If you vote for Biden and Biden authorizes a drone strike in afghanistan that kills a bunch of families, do you have zero responsibility? It's a philosophical one I guess, but let's at least be consistent.