2024 U.S. Elections | Thread Closed

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Hamnat said:
I agree. And we now see the extent of what people can ignore or put up with because of that "feeling". They don't need to understand the minutia and economics of why just that it is the case and if that feeling can be tied to the candidate.

A seperate funny aside all things considered. What is the over under on somehow THIS election suddenly there is not voter fraud concerns and everything is magically fixed? All those election deniers somehow take credit for fixing it when had he lost we would have heard all manner of nuttery and conspiracy.
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It will surprise you the shit people are willing to take as long as it doesn’t affect their pocket or it improves their pocket. I’m not going to bash Americans for it, it is the same everywhere. Human beings are inherently selfish, Americans probably more than most.
You cannot preside over a cost of living crisis and think you won’t suffer at the polls. It just doesn’t happen in a functioning democracy. People will punish you. It doesn’t even have to be your fault.
 
Marauder1 said:
Hopefully the administration is not all that competant. The last one wasn't, but there were a few adults in the room then, now not so much. 4 years and we'll see where we are at
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The republicans are far more competent than the dems at pushing their agendas through when in power, especially now they have the senate. You should read up on project 2025. They’ve been preparing for a Trump win for years. If anything it was in 2016 they weren’t prepared for a Trump win cause a Hilary landslide was expected. They haven’t made the same mistake this time.
 
I expected to wake up to bad news, but this is really bad.

A George Carlin quote comes to mind.
Imagine how dumb the average American is. Half of them are dumber than that....
 
TheGame said:
In relation to his court cases, I suppose they won't matter now will they because even if found guilty, he will just remain in office?
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Yes. I think they give him a performative suspended sentence and he then pardon himself for it.

The Dems fecked themselves with the appointment of Merrick Garland. He was patently unsuited to be a Law Enforcement official, they could've brought the case against Trump federally a year earlier when passion was hot, instead it fizzled out of public discourse and was weaponised by the right as unjust lawfare.
 
Massive Spanner said:
It’s quite amazing how Trump obliterates the polls every single time.
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Makes sense for there to be shy Trump voters, who want him in but don't want to say it publicly as they know he's shit for the world, but good for their pockets.
 
For all the navelgazing that's going to come, it's hard to shake the idea that if the Dems had just trotted out a non-senile married 6ft+ white fella with a full head of hair and 2.4 kids they'd probably have smashed it and there wouldn't have been much that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan or The Undertaker could have done about it.
 
P-Nut said:
Makes sense for there to be shy Trump voters, who want him in but don't want to say it publicly as they know he's shit for the world, but good for their pockets.
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Except the polls were meant to have accounted for that this time weren’t they? Basically don’t trust the polls.
 
Beachryan said:
At least this is clarifying. It's not close. He's doing better everywhere. This is what America wants. It wants to 'return' to pre-pandemic world. Fair enough, I do too. But it's not possible.

I desperately hope the Dems now go for a change, positive candidate. Please please please don't take a message that moderating is what is needed.

I thought it would work - I thought they could grab some tiny sliver of the 20% of Haley voters. I was dead wrong. Dems need a new face, a new, positive direction to energise. It can't be anti-anything, it has to be for something.

AOC28!!!
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As someone who
1. Supported Bernie in 2016 and am 100% convinced he would have easily beaten Trump then
2. Canvassed for Bernie in 2020 and am moderately confident he would have narrowly beaten Trump
3. Likes his policies and policies to his left

Nah. Things have changed now. The US has moved to the right, quite decisively. AOC at one point spoke of open borders or abolish ICE. That makes her dead on arrival. Bernie, who has been less left-wing than her on immigration, is also DOA. In general, the space for left-wing populism opened in 2008 and closed sometime between 2017 and 2022.

Bernie's key to victory against Trump was his popularity with blue-collar whites (Trump's base) and Latinos (who have swung to Trump in both 2020 and 2024). 8 years of culture war and political polarisation has made these votes extremely difficult for any Dem, including left-wing populists. They might have been floating or gettable but are very likely set in the MAGA party now. AOC never had Bernie's appeal with rural whites, and this election should show that minority-minority appeal is a myth - she has no inbuilt advantage with Latinos at all (quite the opposite IMO). More than that, she shares Bernie's weakness with suburban whites (who were the key for Biden's win). Basically, she all downside, no upside.

2028 Dems have limited chances in the suburbs and with some blue collar workers (white and Latino). The Nebraska independent senate candidate who outperformed Kamala by >10% is a possible type, but will have trouble winning a primary that requires college white voters and black voters. The safest option is a white male moderate, and hope that Trump has turned off enough suburban or Latino voters for next time. 2020 repeat.

Of course, there might be a fundamental shift in these next 4 years that makes all this meaningless, but, unless it's something like climate change becoming an issue, or people suddenly discovering human brotherhood about immigration, I don't see it helping a left candidate. If it's significant inflation caused by tariffs, I can see President Shapiro or Newsom in 2028.


Reading hearing podcasts about history, there are moments not taken that never come back. For some Marxists, we are essentially in an incomprehensible or fallen world since 1914, when the social-democrats of each European country betrayed their class, stayed loyal to their country, and supported the war. Everything, even the Bolshevik revolution, is in the sbadow of that un-washable tainted act.
For modern social democracy, that moment may have been Bernie 2016. It could have led to the kind of political realignments that actually generated a stable majority for a left-liberal party. But that perfect storm of circumstances is (IMO of course) lost for a generation now.
 
Massive Spanner said:
The republicans are far more competent than the dems at pushing their agendas through when in power, especially now they have the senate. You should read up on project 2025. They’ve been preparing for a Trump win for years. If anything it was in 2016 they weren’t prepared for a Trump win cause a Hilary landslide was expected. They haven’t made the same mistake this time.
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I actually meant some those adults might have held that administrations worst impulses in check, don't see where that comes from this time. And yes, I know about project 2025, its an extremists agenda.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Except the polls were meant to have accounted for that this time weren’t they? Basically don’t trust the polls.
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How do you account for that though? Guess the amount of people that lie when they say Harris? Basically makes the poll worthless at that point.
 
V.O. said:
For all the navelgazing that's going to come, it's hard to shake the idea that if the Dems had just trotted out a non-senile married 6ft+ white fella with a full head of hair and 2.4 kids they'd probably have smashed it and there wouldn't have been much that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan or The Undertaker could have done about it.
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As others have said, with the economy and inflation, not sure if it would have made a difference to the end result.
 
So what is Trump's plan to manage inflation and ensure that workers feel the befit in their pockets? Tariffs and consequently increasing the costs of goods coming in? Tax cuts (probably not for the working classes)?

He's going to leave another financial hole.
 
Damn every desk is pointing finger at latino and black so called voting block for the loss, comparing numbers etc. Find it weird that nobody thought of maybe those people after all the work, blood and tears to become American citizen are tired of still being seen as such.
 
V.O. said:
For all the navelgazing that's going to come, it's hard to shake the idea that if the Dems had just trotted out a non-senile married 6ft+ white fella with a full head of hair and 2.4 kids they'd probably have smashed it and there wouldn't have been much that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan or The Undertaker could have done about it.
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I think this was a factor but I disagree overall. The ultimate reason was the economy. And the Democratic Party’s inability to come up with a galvanising winning message, despite all the stuff Trump stands for.
 
I'm genuinely a bit distraught.

He represents everything I despise and his policies are going to have catastrophic impact around the globe.
 
R'hllor said:
Yea but isnt that different from, you should vote for me because i am male just like you, or we have same skin tone or same hair color, i meant like that
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The issue of body autonomy and choice is not an identity issue it's a policy issue.

Iker Quesadillas said:
Biden was on track to lose quite heavily. Maybe worse than this, though I guess you never know.
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Samid said:
Because Biden has been doing a shite job for the past 4 years? Let’s not pretend the outcome would’ve been different if he was still running.
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Wasn't Biden's low polling more a result of worries about his competency rather than concerns over his policies?


berbatrick said:
they weren't? he quit in july with months of polls showing him down as much or more in all the states she lost, and he was also losing virginia and NH in some polls (where she has clung on). his approval rating has been sub-40% in all polls including exit polls after the election.

if you're comparing to 2020: covid and trump's handling of it was a big issue, raising questions about his competence, people had disliked having to hear about politics all the time, biden was the most generic politician imaginable, and would presumably fix those issues. in this election, the issues were different - no covid, it was about inflation and immigration. people want to see immigrants in camps, and they want cheaper burgers. they remembered the low inflation and tough rhetoric and actions of trump against migrants, and punished harris (and the biden admin she was part of) for the opposite.
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I was never under the impression that a Harris victory was a slam dunk, but the margins by which she lost among female voters who voted for Biden in the last race is mind-boggling, Harris is herself a generic politician her policies were pretty much lined up with Biden's and she didn't have his competency problem.
 
Maybe it is time to just let the anti immigration policies play out and once the economy tanks because of it people will finally understand this isn't the cause of all their issues and we can move on from this type of politics which is plaguing the western world. Will cause short term pain but perhaps worth it in the long run, it will also give people what they want and they can experience the actual consequences of it.
 
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2mufc0 said:
Maybe it is time to just let the anti immigration policies play out and once the economy tanks because of it people will finally understand this isn't the cause of all their issues and we can move on from this type of politics which is plaguing the western world. Will cause short term pain but perhaps worth it in the long run, it will also give people what they want and they can experience the actually consequences of it.
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With the massive rise in demagoguery in the US and elsewhere, do you honestly expect the population to come to this conclusion, no matter how things go? And even if they do, another minority scape goat will emerge.

Part of the solution would be to have people better educated and a more robust media, but Trump is going to undermine both of these.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I'm genuinely a bit distraught.

He represents everything I despise and his policies are going to have catastrophic impact around the globe.
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Yeah, I feel for you considering your Ukraine connections. Hopefully the rest of NATO picks up the slack.

On the plus side he's 78 years old, morbidly obese, and will maybe be too busy bickering with Elon. He might kick it before doing any long term damage.
 
So the US isn’t ready for a female president. Don’t know where the Dems go from here. Best bet would be convincing Mrs Obama to run next time. She’s got confidence and very quick in her mind.

In the meantime, Trump and his corporate cronies will extract every bit of money they can from natural resources and back away from any environmental initiatives. feck the world. Pockets need lining!
 
V.O. said:
For all the navelgazing that's going to come, it's hard to shake the idea that if the Dems had just trotted out a non-senile married 6ft+ white fella with a full head of hair and 2.4 kids they'd probably have smashed it and there wouldn't have been much that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan or The Undertaker could have done about it.
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I doubt it tbh. No matter who they brought out, maga media machine would destroy them. Taking over twitter probably made a big difference this time around. If one side controls 80% of the media noise, there's no chance.

Bannon explained it quite simply. They have specific messages for every demographic group and hammer them with bullshit reasons why Harris is bad, whatever gets their attention and makes them think, distracts them from Trump, mixed with a half-truth or whatever. All very well curated and targeted, they are only getting better at it.
 
golden_blunder said:
So the US isn’t ready for a female president. Don’t know where the Dems go from here. Best bet would be convincing Mrs Obama to run next time. She’s got confidence and very quick in her mind.

In the meantime, Trump and his corporate cronies will extract every bit of money they can from natural resources and back away from any environmental initiatives. feck the world. Pockets need lining!
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FFS, not this again :lol:
 
Mike Smalling said:
With the massive rise in demagoguery in the US and elsewhere, do you honestly expect the population to come to this conclusion, no matter how things go? And even if they do, another minority scape goat will emerge.

Part of the solution would be to have people better educated and a more robust media, but Trump is going to undermine both of these.
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I'm not sure about that, what most voters care about is their pockets, once those are hit they will flip votes in an instant.
 
Simbo said:
The twisted part of me is actually quite excited to see if he/they is going to do what we think they are going to do...
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Genuinely think this is a collective subconscious nudger towards voting for him. There's this perverse curiosity to see just how far this can go. Basically saying "putting my hand on the hot stove hurt a bit, but not so much that I don't want to find out what happens if I keep my hand there."

This is the game humanity plays with itself, I suppose. With real stakes. Gonna be a ride.
 
golden_blunder said:
So the US isn’t ready for a female president. Don’t know where the Dems go from here. Best bet would be convincing Mrs Obama to run next time. She’s got confidence and very quick in her mind.

In the meantime, Trump and his corporate cronies will extract every bit of money they can from natural resources and back away from any environmental initiatives. feck the world. Pockets need lining!
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Maybe they should promote better female candidate
 
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