Agreed, but the voting systems in the US need a huge overhaul. I've never had any worries about how we do things in the UK - no voting machines, no ID required, no signatures no match and polling stations within walking distance of your homes. The only issue I have with it is we should move election days to the weekends, rather than Thursdays and give more people the chance to vote.
2021 American Civil War
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
Wait, why is "no ID required" a good thing?
They already claimed Democrats would drive up to vote counting offices in trucks with "Biden/Harris" signs printed on them and start swapping out whole boxes of ballots in broad daylight.
It's wrong to reason with this kind of stuff, these are people acting in bad faith who don't even attempt to be accountable or reasonable. They don't have real actual grievances with the voting process and are not really concerned about voter fraud, it's BS from start to finish. They have actively decided to be dumb fascist pigs.
CloseWhich one of your uncles told you about that theory?
That’s actually a combo of a few I heard from the crazy cop I worked with at the school I used to teach at.Wait, so you just pop into a polling station and say your name and that's it?
That sounds mental
Wait, so you just pop into a polling station and say your name and that's it?
That sounds mental
We have a ridiculously low amount of voter fraud too.
Everyone has one polling station that they need to vote at, so if I decided to try and vote multiple times in multiple places across my constituency I would not be allowed to. If I am not on the list to vote at a polling station, they won't let me vote.
Because voter fraud isn't really a big thing here, and loads of people don't have voter ID so requiring it of them would disenfranchise many more people:
https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data
For context EDIT: 32 million people cast votes in the 2019 General Election (not counting the others listed below).
592 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, three led to a conviction and an individual was given a police caution.
This table shows the number of cases of alleged fraud the police reported to us, for each election held in 2019.
| Election | Number of cases |
|---|---|
| Local elections | 362 |
| UK Parliamentary general election | 161 |
| European Parliamentary election | 21 |
| Non-election specific (for example, electoral registration) | 21 |
| Local by-election | 12 |
| UK Parliamentary by-election | 7 |
| Mayoral election | 6 |
| Combined authority mayoral election | 1 |
| Police and Crime Commissioner by-election | 1 |
UK is the only country that does not require any form of ID, that I am aware of. Probably there are others in the Commonwealth but to most of us it sounds extremely weird.
To be honest I have no problems with the Government requiring ID to vote, as long as they provide for it and pay for it. Otherwise it is just a way of ensuring the poor are not able to vote, and it is no coincidence that a lot of them do not vote Tory.
Here is another difference, we all have issued ID cards since we turn 16 (I guess that varies by country) and you don't, because...?
But how does it work in practice? I'm not interested in the whole voter fraud issue or anything - but what happens when John Smith walks up, announces that he's John Smith... and there are 13 other John Smiths in that particular district. What happens? Do they ask for his address or date of birth or what?
There is a negative to the one polling station method as it reduces the number voting. My work (pre-covid) means that I could be anywhere on a particular day and there is no way I would know a few weeks in advance. I've missed a couple of votes because of that.
You could argue that I should go for a proxy vote, but I'd rather do it myself if I'm around. Moving the vote to a weekend has been alluded to which would help.
Personally, I think with today's technologies the concept of going in person (particularly when you don't even need ID when you get there) is pretty pointless, a waste of time and reduces the number of people bothering. There's a number of methods that could be used to make remote voting online infallible.
They check our name and will ask for address if there's multiple
There were plans for it in the dying days of the Labour government, didn't get far due to civil liberties complaints.
Fascinating.
In our voting station they confirm the address regardless of duplicate names.
Theoretically anyone could get a letter out of your bin to ge true address and name, then rock up at you voting station pretending to be you. Luckily most people that'd do that kind of thing aren't politically engaged, I guess.
I've had that before too, but the last couple of times I've just been asked my name. They're probably supposed to confirm address in reality. I always take my voting card and have it in hand anyway so they may spot that and don't bother asking.
Close
Oh yeah, you mentioned that guy in the past.
No the insurrection was at Chuck Norris. Or something.
Most unsurprising thing ever. He’s a proper whacko gun nut, pro-war, anti-choice, hick of a Republican.
"We're not a democracy, we're a republic" wasn't bad either
The fact they are a republic actually makes them even more wrong
But what’s there to stop someone from going to your polling station and telling them they are you? Then once you show up you’re not allowed to vote because your vote’s already been registered. I mean, it’s not like someone couldn’t find out someone else’s name and address, and thus figure out which polling station someone belongs to?
Yeah, he is the living embodiment of 'never meet your heroes'.
Basically that it's a bit of a pointless effort for one extra vote, whilst risking jail for electoral fraud if you're caught. Seems to work.
That’s the case with all voter fraud though, isn’t it? Still happens all over the world.
It's pretty easy to sort though as person number two turns up and has already voted. Person 2 can then prove they are who they are through ID and their voter card and the first vote gets nulled. There's also know voter fraud for the first person if they can find them. Judging by the figures posted not long ago that happens around 200 times per election.
Fraud that actually matters would presumably be done by the government or other powerful enteties, not individual normal voters.
He has never been the same since that fight or day.
That is perfectly possible, and yet it doesn't seem to happen - well, it may happen, but not enough that it's ever been an issue.
We used to vote at a small church hall round the corner from our house. I knew my neighbours' names and surnames and I could have gone there and pretended to be my female neighbour. You could even get by the problem of the polling station folk having already seen you - go first thing, and then go again late in the evening when the staff have changed. It's very low-tech in the UK, a few volunteers sit behind trestle tables, the paper lists are checked by hand, your name is struck through and they tear a ballot paper off the pad and hand it to you. You don't even need to take your voting card with you.
However, what benefit would you really get compared to the risks you'd be taking?
They've already covered this in some states, including Georgia (the most contested/cried about state by the repubs, even after 2 recounts) where there is a paper ballot to back up every single vote counted on the electronic machines.
Makes the voting machine claims even more laughable, this isn't in place in all states yet however.
So individual ballots can be tied to specific voters? That sounds ever so slightly like a bad idea.
You can already see Trivette being the one targetted by the FBI.
Yeah, that's a good point. The ballot paper is numbered and can be tracked on the counter-foil which holds our voter registration number.
There's been a few comments about that but it's not considered a huge issue generally (and does allow fraud to be reversed)
Edit - it looks like there are laws around the storage of this and the boxes are sealed and transported to a government location and records are destroyed after 1 year:
"The papers are sealed and kept in storage for one year after an election, to ensure that any allegations of corrupt or illegal practices can be properly investigated.
After this time is up, the sacks of paper are sent to be incinerated and destroyed, meaning there will be no lasting record of your vote."
Last edited:
I was under the impression that anonymity of vote was a basic requirement for a democracy.
I can see the issue with it, but I think the idea is it is anonymous and the sacks are only opened in fraud investigations with specific ballots taken out. To track a person from the vote you would need the ballot number, the paper linking the number to the vote registration number and link that to your name and the ballot paper itself. The papers are destroyed after one year.
It does stop fraud after-the-event, but that's not saying it's great.