2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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rpitroda said:
Where does it say 1% is outstanding? Fulton, which is a the largest county, stopped counting ages ago and the outstanding amount in that county alone is >1%.
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NYT says there is 8% outstanding in Georgia.
 
Olly Gunnar Solskjær said:
Anyone that voted for Trump is either a racist/sexist/etc and voted for him for those reasons, or they are not racist/sexist/etc directly themselves but have no problem that Trump is. Those are the only two options.

Neither group of people is good people in my opinion. I know that seems very controversial these days.

If someone doesn't see Trump and find reasons to not support him every single fecking day for four years, sees the harm he's doing to millions of people and still decide to hop down from their fence to his side because someone called out those specific things or called them something online, there was no hope anyway.

This isn't a slight difference in opinion on how taxes are spent, or what the military budget should be, it's about supporting one of the worst human beings on the planet.

If you think you can convince someone by being polite or whatever then go for it, I genuinely hope you succeed. But the fact someone even needs to be convinced not to support Trump in my opinion tells me it's a waste of time and that it should not be up to others to be nice and accomodating.
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This is it.
 
Just catching up, can't believe Trump has actually declared victory and said votes shouldn't be counted :lol:

He always manages to turn the worse expectations into reality.
 
DavelinaJolie said:
But the exits suggested the economy is a big issue for voters, in that case isn't it expected the republicans win the presidency?
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Yes. The economy has always been a top reason why people vote, and in this case voters seem to have bought into Trump’s line that the pre-Covid economy was in great shape.
 
FireballXL5 said:
Who'd have thought that putting kids in cages, tearing families apart, having snatch squads on the streets, having your police murder black people every other day, sucking up to dictators, blatant nepotism and ignoring a worldwide pandemic would be such a vote winner?
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What a world and time to live in. I lose hope for this world every day. Human beings are stupid.
 
Olly Gunnar Solskjær said:
Anyone that voted for Trump is either a racist/sexist/etc and voted for him for those reasons, or they are not racist/sexist/etc directly themselves but have no problem that Trump is. Those are the only two options.

Neither group of people is good people in my opinion. I know that seems very controversial these days.

If someone doesn't see Trump and find reasons to not support him every single fecking day for four years, sees the harm he's doing to millions of people and still decide to hop down from their fence to his side because someone called out those specific things or called them something online, there was no hope anyway.

This isn't a slight difference in opinion on how taxes are spent, or what the military budget should be, it's about supporting one of the worst human beings on the planet.

If you think you can convince someone by being polite or whatever then go for it, I genuinely hope you succeed. But the fact someone even needs to be convinced not to support Trump in my opinion tells me it's a waste of time and that it should not be up to others to be nice and accomodating.
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No, Olly, there is a third option. The third option is that they are stupid/misinformed. And it is those individuals to whom my initial reply relates.
 
Dem needs to own up they fecked up royally. Those trumps voters arent gonna go away anytime soon. Trumpist is a formidable opponent

They'd other have to whore themselves harder, play dirty, scracth and claw and basically fightback.

The they go low we go high hollier than thou attitude isnt gonna win them nothing
Mike Smalling said:
Whoever wins, the very sobering fact of this election will be, that tens of millions of people still support Trump. A Biden win, would not fix anything - the country would still more divided than ever. Until Republicans across the board actively starts rebuking Trump for his lunacy, there is no way the country is going back to normal - whatever that was.
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Why would they? Mitch still win. Trump still win. The crowd are loving it.

Why would they change?
 
tombombadil said:
It's down to 2 last states, MI and PA and they are showing Trump leading by around 6% with 60 - 70% votes counted.

GA, WI and NC are will probably lose fall to Trump. Just a matter of time to make it official.
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Thanks. Was kind of expecting it given Biden’s age.
 
Siorac said:
But... Trump did not even have a platform in 2020. Biden did have one. A detailed one. You can still look at it. It's full of stuff he wants to do. All about his plans. Go and read it. Watch his town hall; it's an hour of him talking about his vision. It's his opponent who had none except "Keep America great" and "fake news liberal media".
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"Get Brexit Done!" won over a population that was offered free broadband, a better funded NHS, a green new deal, etc.

Can't underestimate empty slogans. Biden could have slung mud at Trump and made a huge deal of the Epstein/Maxwell links.
 
Olly Gunnar Solskjær said:
Anyone that voted for Trump is either a racist/sexist/etc and voted for him for those reasons, or they are not racist/sexist/etc directly themselves but have no problem that Trump is. Those are the only two options.

Neither group of people is good people in my opinion. I know that seems very controversial these days.

If someone doesn't see Trump and find reasons to not support him every single fecking day for four years, sees the harm he's doing to millions of people and still decide to hop down from their fence to his side because someone called out those specific things or called them something online, there was no hope anyway.

This isn't a slight difference in opinion on how taxes are spent, or what the military budget should be, it's about supporting one of the worst human beings on the planet.

If you think you can convince someone by being polite or whatever then go for it, I genuinely hope you succeed. But the fact someone even needs to be convinced not to support Trump in my opinion tells me it's a waste of time and that it should not be up to others to be nice and accomodating.
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Totally agree.
 
Siorac said:
But... Trump did not even have a platform in 2020. Biden did have one. A detailed one. You can still look at it. It's full of stuff he wants to do. All about his plans. Go and read it. Watch his town hall; it's an hour of him talking about his vision. It's his opponent who had none except "Keep America great" and "fake news liberal media".
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Again, though, whilst I agree he had to have a manifesto, the talking points were always Trump. The average voter will not read/watch all that. They will watch the big debates etc.

Trump didn't need a platform again because everyone knows what he is. His whole political game is to create a us vs them situation. Biden by, for the most part, focusing on Trump helped that narrative. The last thing Trump wants is a policy based election, he wanted a dog fight.

I feel the Dems let themselves openly get pulled into the wrong type of election. You can't bring in Trump voters/fence sitters if you don't clearly tell them what they would get with you.

They kept saying Trump divided the country which he did. Then their platform should have shown more clearly how they plan to bring it back together

Equally, if they were going to get down and dirty the Trump way then go fecking hard. Throw in all his sexual assult charges, bankruptcy, Epstein etc. Don't half arse it
 
Raoul said:
None of that is because of Biden. It’s down to Trump voters simply outperforming due to their cultish devotion to him. There’s no evidence any other Dem candidate would’ve been even remotely as successful at being competitive in these rather unique circumstances.
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I think the DNC shoot themselves in the foot by smearing Tulsi Gabbard as a Russian asset. She has great centrist appeal, earned her stripes as a multi tour veteran, would have out-debated Trump with ease and put on a more energizing performance on the road.
 
Raoul said:
Yes. The economy has always been a top reason why people vote, and in this case voters seem to have bought into Trump’s line that the pre-Covid economy was in great shape.
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well it was though.

lowest unemployment numbers and people’s 401ks were at all time highs.

Obviously, Obama should get a lot of credit for that.
 
FireballXL5 said:
Who'd have thought that putting kids in cages, tearing families apart, having snatch squads on the streets, having your police murder black people every other day, sucking up to dictators, blatant nepotism and ignoring a worldwide pandemic would be such a vote winner?
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Hitler was a pretty popular dude tbf. The fact that Covid, debt and poor tax and spending policy will continue to tank the American economy for the next 4 years if Trump gets in will be what does for him, not being a fat, horrible, evil piss-eyed Tango monster.
 
langster said:
I think it's time the entire world cuts off the USA. feck Trump removing the US from Nato, just kick them out. Kick them out the UN and the G8(7)

If Trump does win or cheats his way back in then he has no right to force his bullshit on anyone else in the world.
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Not happening, especially the UK. Trade deal is going to be even worse than we could have envisaged.
 
TwoSheds said:
But you have to explain it to people. Door knocking is a good start. Good advertising comes next. Most Trump supporters probably couldn't tell you one Biden policy other than "he wants a complete lockdown" (which isn't true) "which would be a disaster for our economy" (also not true).
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I don't believe that anyone who is a Trump supporter after the last four years can be convinced by policy talk. That's just not what they're about.

I don't know how well the Biden campaign did in reaching out to independents. I'm very much looking forward to the data about that. But my opinion is that we're in a culture war. It's all over the planet: it's about "owning the libs", it's about "stopping political correctness", it's about "the gay agenda", whatever the feck that is. Policy is now very much secondary to this - people align their policy positions to the candidates who represent them best in this culture struggle and not the other way around.
 
jungledrums said:
No, Olly, there is a third option. The third option is that they are stupid/misinformed. And it is those individuals to whom my initial reply relates.
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So what's your approach, then? Manipulate them? Because I think this is what needs to be done if you want them to vote for you. There's no nice way of convincing those people. Trump has shown how to do it.
 
This situation is looking so ugly. Trump knows full well the damage that could happen as a result of that terribly irresponsible speech. Horrible man.
 
JJ12 said:
So we agree they are rarely wrong. What a waste of time that was.
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Is usually a waste of time if you don't read well what I am saying. read again: "they were mostly wrong"
 
jungledrums said:
No, Olly, there is a third option. The third option is that they are stupid/misinformed. And it is those individuals to whom my initial reply relates.
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Agreed; and in fact I would go so far as to say most voters fall into this category. It’s just a very difficult thing for people to admit.
 
One of the biggest things I think we have to face upto is the bubble the caf is in.
 
NYAS said:
Agreed; and in fact I would go so far as to say most voters fall into this category. It’s just a very difficult thing for people to admit.
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True, people have strong opinions about things they have no idea about.
 
Future advice for Americans who happen to work with political polls:

"I ain't telling you shit! This is 'Murica! Yeeeeee-haaaaaw! *pistol shots*"

The sentence above is a good example of a Trump vote. Don't discount it, even if he/she didn't specifically say Trump.
 
Siorac said:
I don't believe that anyone who is a Trump supporter after the last four years can be convinced by policy talk. That's just not what they're about.

I don't know how well the Biden campaign did in reaching out to independents. I'm very much looking forward to the data about that. But my opinion is that we're in a culture war. It's all over the planet: it's about "owning the libs", it's about "stopping political correctness", it's about "the gay agenda", whatever the feck that is. Policy is now very much secondary to this - people align their policy positions to the candidates who represent them best in this culture struggle and not the other way around.
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My opinion is that you're 100% correct. I see this in Norway as well - there is a worryingly large number of uneducated Norwegians who are supporting the likes of Trump for those exact reasons you are listing. They do not care and/or have any knowledge about the actual political issues - it's about "owning" the other side.
 
jungledrums said:
Look, I’d respond thoughtfully but you’ve completely misinterpreted my post, wilfully or otherwise. Why you’d bring up what people ‘deserve’ is staggering to me. Who cares what they deserve? I’m talking about the practical consequence of arguing not with logic but with emotion.
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Come on, those people voted for Trump. They were not convinced by logical arguments, they were convinced by emotional ones. It's been tried to talk sense into them. They don't care about facts or well reasoned arguments, that's what needs to be understood.
 
WI and GA will be done today.. WI soon... GA a little later today.

It could be all over if things go well.

If not. could drag on till Friday
 
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