2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Raoul said:
Its definitely going to be an incremental process. There will definitely be no medicare for all in the next Presidency given the current precarious political dynamics in the house and senate, so the best the Dems (even with Sanders as President) would get is some sort of patchwork fix for Obamacare that will reimpose the individual mandate again to bring costs down.
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That's the worst that could possibly happen. The best realistic result in the next 4 years will be the 70% of the public that wants universal health insurance to force that conversation to the table and force the politicians to build a bridge to public options. What you bold would be a disaster and a huge victory only for amoral profiteers. We need to wind down for-profit health insurance not give them exactly what they want ffs.

Reimposing this outdated Heritage foundation privatization idea that would simply empower the for-profit entities with more cash to fight and lobby against a public option is the worst possible thing that could happen. That would just hurt the working class even more. The whole sales pitch that the "individual mandate decreasing costs" is another lie sold by the for-profit health 'care' industry. That didn't happen in 2010 when it was first implemented and it won't happen if its re-imposed.

No no. The only good thing that can realistically happen is to begin the discussion on how to transition from the inefficient privatized system to an effective public system. I am again convinced that begins with starting universal coverage for catastrophic, terminal and emergency room cases that are the cause of the most bankruptcies. A real discussion on moving towards a real public option is the only acceptable answer not believing this lie about decreasing costs nonsense that again is support neither by logic (unless you believe for-profit health businesses are not actually trying to maximize profit) nor historical facts (look at what they did last time and how they are already spending millions organizing lobbying against the public option - giving the individual mandate they salivate over is not going to help bring about a public option, its capitulating to the for-profit entities).
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
That's the worst that could possibly happen. The best realistic result in the next 4 years will be the 70% of the public that wants universal health insurance to force that conversation to the table and force the politicians to build a bridge to public options. What you bold would be a disaster and a huge victory only for amoral profiteers. We need to wind down for-profit health insurance not give them exactly what they want ffs.

Reimposing this outdated Heritage foundation privatization idea that would simply empower the for-profit entities with more cash to fight and lobby against a public option is the worst possible thing that could happen. That would just hurt the working class even more. The whole sales pitch that the "individual mandate decreasing costs" is another lie sold by the for-profit health 'care' industry. That didn't happen in 2010 when it was first implemented and it won't happen if its re-imposed.

No no. The only good thing that can realistically happen is to begin the discussion on how to transition from the inefficient privatized system to an effective public system. I am again convinced that begins with starting universal coverage for catastrophic, terminal and emergency room cases that are the cause of the most bankruptcies. A real discussion on moving towards a real public option is the only acceptable answer not believing this lie about decreasing costs nonsense that again is support neither by logic (unless you believe for-profit health businesses are not actually trying to maximize profit) nor historical facts (look at what they did last time and how they are already spending millions organizing lobbying against the public option - giving the individual mandate they salivate over is not going to help bring about a public option, its capitulating to the for-profit entities).
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Definitely the right first step. Once the public are overwhelmingly on board the policies will follow.
 
every time I see a Corporate democrat talk about Health Care its about lowering Drug prices.
But absolute silence about Health Insurance premiums and deductibles.

Though drug prices are a part of it, the big reason is health Insurance companies greed for profits.
 
Sanders isn't even a Democrat. Why not concentrate on spreading your message?
 
Adisa said:
Sanders isn't even a Democrat. Why not concentrate on spreading your message?
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He will obviously run as a Dem again and would have to compete against O'Rourke, if he runs. His supporters know this and are attempting to soften him up since he (along with Biden) would seem to be Bernie's biggest threats.
 
I don't agree with taking shots at Beto until we see what he is running on.
If he is another Obama type then we do have a problem.
The Democratic Party has no option but to move left in a big way. While they may not absorb everything Social Democrats stand for there needs to be significant Give.

Or we Will see another 2016.
 
Raoul said:
He will obviously run as a Dem again and would have to compete against O'Rourke, if he runs. His supporters know this and are attempting to soften him up since he (along with Biden) would seem to be Bernie's biggest threats.
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thats not why we are criticizing o'rourke. if sanders wasn't running we would still criticize beto for being a centrist. we criticize him because we disagree with him on policy
 
Red Dreams said:
I don't agree with taking shots at Beto until we see what he is running on.
If he is another Obama type then we do have a problem.
The Democratic Party has no option but to move left in a big way. While they may not absorb everything Social Democrats stand for there needs to be significant Give.

Or we Will see another 2016.
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The various factions are obviously going to argue about where the party's political sweet spot should be. Most know that Beto's appeal would severely cut into Sanders' base if both decide to run, which would probably help someone like Biden out in the end.
 
I get the feeling going negative on O'Rourke will backfire, politically.
 
Raoul said:
The various factions are obviously going to argue about where the party's political sweet spot should be. Most know that Beto's appeal would severely cut into Sanders' base if both decide to run, which would probably help someone like Biden out in the end.
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When the actual campaigning starts, what each stands for will become clearer.
In the end unlike 2016, I believe candidates will move towards what voters need/want.
I am assuming that the DNC has learned from their stupid mistakes of course.
 
Red Dreams said:
When the actual campaigning starts, what each stands for will become clearer.
In the end unlike 2016, I believe candidates will move towards what voters need/want.
I am assuming that the DNC has learned from their stupid mistakes of course.
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I think it shouldn't be underestimated how much trump will get involved

Non stop twitter about their policy positions and no doubt name calling and seeking to control the news cycle by calling people out and making it personal rather than a debate.

Much as I don't like him I do think he proved pretty effective in his campaigning and with the added oxygen of presidential news conferences etc I think he will employ a scorched earth policy of making sure whoever he faces in the 2020 election has had 18 months of his attacks

Little Marco, Lyin ted, crooked hillary etc
 
Ubik said:
I get the feeling going negative on O'Rourke will backfire, politically.
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I definitely feel like it's something the Dems need to be wary about. It's absolutely correct that they should, of course, be wary of endorsing him too heavily at this stage, and that he shouldn't necessarily be made out as some sort of political messiah saviour-type who can do no wrong, because that could quickly backfire. And after 08 I can similarly understand the wariness from left-wing Dems who were taken in by Obama but later came to view him as a disappointment.

But at the same time I'd say the political atmosphere has changed massively since 08. Any centrist Dem president in 2020 is going to face a lot more left-wing pressure than Obama did. And I don't just mean in respect to activists - I imagine in 2020 if current trends continue we'll see a lot of fresh left-wing Dems from a variety of underrepresented backgrounds entering congress for the first time. And they'll be expecting a Dem president, irrespective of their alignments, to implement left-wing policy. Which is a fair expectation.

I don't doubt that Beto's at least partially quite vacuous, but then sometimes vacuous politicians willing to switch their allegiance on key issues can end up affecting a lot of social change even if they don't believe in it personally. The Civil Rights Act came in while LBJ was in power not necessarily because he was a virtuous champion of social justice but because there was enough pressure for it to be politically necessary to implement. If you're solidly of the left in America, you're likely going to think pretty much every Presidency in the past through a fairly negative lens. So you're similarly probably going to have to acknowledge that any Dem president who comes in will have certain views you find troubling or even disagree with completely. Certain red lines remain - I think universal healthcare should be an absolute must for anyone standing, but no Dem president, for example, is going to be particularly condemnatory of Israel for their actions in Palestine. And any President is probably going to be a lot more nationalistic and patriotic than any leftist would ideally like, but then that's a reality of the role, because most Americans don't want to be constantly told how awful their country is. And that might not be ideal, but it's a reality that'll have to be faced.

I admit I could be wrong on this last point because I don't exactly have an intricate knowledge of Texan politics, but I also think it's a possibility that Beto has largely pandered to centrist motivations because he's in a traditionally Republican state filled with lots of Republican voters. Considering he's just off the back of a run for the Senate, he also likely thought that pandering to the centre would give him a much better shot at beating Cruz than being an all-out leftist. Which isn't probably far off.
 
What Bernie stands for are basic needs that the Democratic party has not addressed seriously. Only given lip service. This time around, that wont work.
2016 showed the power Progressives have.
The Isreal/Palastine issue will not be a game changer. Its Domestic politics that will move the needle.
As for Trump, I honestly think he will not make it. I think he will be toast.
I also don't know if it will be Pence.
Things are moving so rapidly we don't know where the train is heading.
 
Red Dreams said:
What Bernie stands for are basic needs that the Democratic party has not addressed seriously. Only given lip service. This time around, that wont work.
2016 showed the power Progressives have.
The Isreal/Palastine issue will not be a game changer. Its Domestic politics that will move the needle.
As for Trump, I honestly think he will not make it. I think he will be toast.
I also don't know if it will be Pence.
Things are moving so rapidly we don't know where the train is heading.
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Healthcare, Education, Minimum wage increase - should probably be the core issues domestically
 
Raoul said:
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Calling him left leaning after his voting record expose is a seriously insult to non corporate and progressive democrats of the Democratic party. The lies and deceit from the corporate democrats are amazing and it shows how poisonous this wing of the party really is. They should be open about what he represents and let people decide what they want in 2020 but instead they have chosen Beto to be the face of a deceitful campaign to undermine the American democracy. It seems that they never learned from 2016.
 
Red Viking said:
Calling him left leaning after his voting record expose is a seriously insult to non corporate and progressive democrats of the Democratic party. The lies and deceit from the corporate democrats are amazing and it shows how poisonous this wing of the party really is. They should be open about what he represents and let people decide what they want in 2020 but instead they have chosen Beto to be the face of a deceitful campaign to undermine the American democracy. It seems that they never learned from 2016.
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Its the LA Times so not particularly surprising that a universal health care supporting Dem will be considered left leaning.
 
The democratic party marketing machine will be full steam ahead pushing for Biden and O'Rourke.

Bernie will be fecked again isn't he? If it happens, i hope this time around he won't accept it and runs independently (or accepts the green party invitation).
 
George Owen said:
The democratic party marketing machine will be full steam ahead pushing for Biden and O'Rourke.

Bernie will be fecked again isn't he? If it happens, i hope this time around he won't accept it and runs independently (or accepts the green party invitation).
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What the Party wants won't be particularly meaningful, especially now that superdelegates are out of way. If Bernie has a great message that resonates with people then he will do well.
 
sun_tzu said:
100 that trump is on the ticket for 2020... Done... See you in 2020 (if either of us remember)
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Ok, to be absolutely clear... I mean on the ticket. November 3rd 2020 - he has survived long enough to be the GOP candidate.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yup... I think it might even be Donny and Ivanka in a double trumptacular but for sure I think the orange one will be republican candidate in 2020
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Then we have a deal.
 
sun_tzu said:
Won't that virtually guarantee another trump win?
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I don't know. It's a possibility, but there is a lot of unhappy people out there with both main parties. If Bernie can run a campaign in his own terms, who knows, weirder shit had happened.

Around 42% of the people eligible to vote didn't bothered. If he can somehow bring plenty of those back, plus all those he will steal from the democrats and republicans...
 
Bernie/Beto on the surface would be a formidable team.
Bernie did say that if he did not get the nomination he would endorse a fellow progressive. That is the question.
Is Beto a true progressive?
When the start campaigning the issues will become clearer.
 
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