2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Red Dreams said:
Bernie/Beto on the surface would be a formidable team.
Bernie did say that if he did not get the nomination he would endorse a fellow progressive. That is the question.
Is Beto a true progressive?
When the start campaigning the issues will become clearer.
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Bernie did endorse Clinton last time. Beto is progressive compared to her.

I think Bernie will endorse whoever wins if he doesn't win the Democratic primary as trump needs to be defeated.

Btw, Beto seems the frontrunner to me right now. He has all the momentum.
 
FromTheBench said:
Bernie did endorse Clinton last time. Beto is progressive compared to her.

I think Bernie will endorse whoever wins if he doesn't win the Democratic primary as trump needs to be defeated.

Btw, Beto seems the frontrunner to me right now. He has all the momentum.
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There are no frontrunners at the moment given that no one has even announced they are running yet. If all three of Biden, Bernie, and Beto were to announce in the coming months then it would probably be a three horse race from the beginning, which would favor O'Rourke (imo) since both of the other guys are very old.
 
FromTheBench said:
Bernie did endorse Clinton last time. Beto is progressive compared to her.

I think Bernie will endorse whoever wins if he doesn't win the Democratic primary as trump needs to be defeated.

Btw, Beto seems the frontrunner to me right now. He has all the momentum.
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I don't think there are any front runners at this time but I don't think Beto has a chance this time around. In a general election, he won't poll enough votes to win.
 
FromTheBench said:
Bernie did endorse Clinton last time. Beto is progressive compared to her.

I think Bernie will endorse whoever wins if he doesn't win the Democratic primary as trump needs to be defeated.

Btw, Beto seems the frontrunner to me right now. He has all the momentum.
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Bernie endorsed her on condition she had Universal health Care on the platform. She put it there and did nothing else to promote it. meaning it was an empty gesture.
She then disrespected him and his supporters.
Surprise...surprise.
Many did not even bother to show up or voted for Jill Stein.
So the anointed loser...err lost.

Bernie is aware of his age being a factor as all of us who support him.
This time round without the DNC having its thumb on the scales for another corporatist (hopefully) we may see a genuine Progressive get the nomination. Be it Bernie or someone else.
 
Red Dreams said:
Bernie endorsed her on condition she had Universal health Care on the platform. She put it there and did nothing else to promote it. meaning it was an empty gesture.
She then disrespected him and his supporters.
Surprise...surprise.
Many did not even bother to show up or voted for Jill Stein.
So the anointed loser...err lost.

Bernie is aware of his age being a factor as all of us who support him.
This time round without the DNC having its thumb on the scales for another corporatist (hopefully) we may see a genuine Progressive get the nomination. Be it Bernie or someone else.
Click to expand...

I don't think Bernie has much control over his supporters since many of them are after a particular set of policies and if whoever he endorses in the end doesn't support those policies then they aren't likely to get much support from Bernie's flock, even if it in the process means getting Trump elected.
 
Red Dreams said:
Bernie endorsed her on condition she had Universal health Care on the platform. She put it there and did nothing else to promote it. meaning it was an empty gesture.
She then disrespected him and his supporters.
Surprise...surprise.
Many did not even bother to show up or voted for Jill Stein.
So the anointed loser...err lost.

Bernie is aware of his age being a factor as all of us who support him.
This time round without the DNC having its thumb on the scales for another corporatist (hopefully) we may see a genuine Progressive get the nomination. Be it Bernie or someone else.
Click to expand...
Not many Progressives on offer after Bernie, especially with Warren out to a stumbling start.

If he doesn’t commit, I don’t see one getting the nomination.
 
Raoul said:
I don't think Bernie has much control over his supporters since many of them are after a particular set of policies and if whoever he endorses in the end doesn't support those policies then they aren't likely to get much support from Bernie's flock, even if it in the process means getting Trump elected.
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I agree.

I meant he endorsed someone even though she was not a progressive.
Those who support Bernie are not his followers.
But if he endorsed a True progressive who was ahead of him, his supporters would not have a problem voting for that candidate.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Not many Progressives on offer after Bernie, especially with Warren out to a stumbling start.

If he doesn’t commit, I don’t see one getting the nomination.
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Warren is done imo.
Commit? You mean if he will run? Think he will. I have no doubt.
Honestly the eventual nominee may be someone who has not even declared yet.
The nomination process will make things clearer. Someone who has been on all sides of an issue will not get far this time around.

No such thing as Its 'someone's turn'.
 
Raoul said:
Most Dems would consider another Obama style juggernaut a good thing. Not too far left, not too far center...somewhere in the middle for most.
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The point of that article though is to show that he has been right in the centre.
 
Cheesy said:
The point of that article though is to show that he has been right in the centre.
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If you look at his votes from the beginning then he does come across as a centrist. If however you factor in the campaign he ran against Cruz, then there are quite a few signs he is taking on more progressive positions - specifically on people funding and healthcare. I'm guessing he's in the process of figuring out his own views on many of these issues as he's starting to feel the pressure of getting involved on a national level.
 
The likely source of the recent left wing hipster fad of spending inordinate resources attacking a guy who hasn't even decided whether or not he's running.

 
Raoul said:
Most Dems would consider another Obama style juggernaut a good thing. Not too far left, not too far center...somewhere in the middle for most.
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you are probably right that a lot of Dems would be fine with Beto. Not the point of me posting this link though! More an informative, in-depth look at his voting record. Of particular interest to those left disappointed by how centrist Obama was.

i have a figure about how much money he got from oil and gas last year I'll dig out in a second
 
Raoul said:
If you look at his votes from the beginning then he does come across as a centrist. If however you factor in the campaign he ran against Cruz, then there are quite a few signs he is taking on more progressive positions - specifically on people funding and healthcare. I'm guessing he's in the process of figuring out his own views on many of these issues as he's starting to feel the pressure of getting involved on a national level.
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That sounds like a kind way of suggesting he's changing his views to things he doesn't necessarily believe in because it'll give him a better chance of getting elected.

Which is potentially fine, if he sticks to those adapted views. The Dems have made economic and social progress in the past with figures who were undoubtedly dubious morally and in what they actually believed. But considering many believe Obama ran a fairly progressive campaign and then largely reneged on that in office, it's easy to see why many are reluctant to embrace Beto since his feint to the left is clearly to get elected.
 
Charlie Foley said:
you are probably right that a lot of Dems would be fine with Beto. Not the point of me posting this link though! More an informative, in-depth look at his voting record. Of particular interest to those left disappointed by how centrist Obama was.

i have a figure about how much money he got from oil and gas last year I'll dig out in a second
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To be fair he was running in Texas... Of course he got lots from oil and gas... Anybody would who was one of the two in a two horse race
 
Raoul said:
The likely source of the recent left wing hipster fad of spending inordinate resources attacking a guy who hasn't even decided whether or not he's running.

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Stating a fact is an attack? :lol:

And didn't know we couldn't talk about politicians until they announced they're running for president...good to know
 
Charlie Foley said:
you are probably right that a lot of Dems would be fine with Beto. Not the point of me posting this link though! More an informative, in-depth look at his voting record. Of particular interest to those left disappointed by how centrist Obama was.

i have a figure about how much money he got from oil and gas last year I'll dig out in a second
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I was disappointed with Obama as well, but more so due to him not being assertive enough in his first two years when he had Congress on his side as well as for his weak, feckless foreign policy that should've been far more aggressive on all front from Russia to ISIS.
 
Charlie Foley said:
Stating a fact is an attack? :lol:

And didn't know we couldn't talk about politicians until they announced they're running for president...good to know
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I don't think the issue is with stating facts, in fact it clearly isn't. Spending a lot of time attacking someone who isn't even running for President however illustrates a degree of concern emanating from Bernie world, that Beto could take a lot of his votes during primary season, which may end up benefiting someone like Biden. If they can therefore frame O'Rourke as a Hillary Clinton style corporatist before a single vote is cast, it would clear a path for Bernie to market himself as the only choice for the hard left.
 
Raoul said:
I was disappointed with Obama as well, but more so due to him not being assertive enough in his first two years when he had Congress on his side as well as for his weak, feckless foreign policy that should've been far more aggressive on all front from Russia to ISIS.
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I have no idea how you felt about Obama mate. You were talking about "most Dems," so was I!
 
Cheesy said:
That sounds like a kind way of suggesting he's changing his views to things he doesn't necessarily believe in because it'll give him a better chance of getting elected.

Which is potentially fine, if he sticks to those adapted views. The Dems have made economic and social progress in the past with figures who were undoubtedly dubious morally and in what they actually believed. But considering many believe Obama ran a fairly progressive campaign and then largely reneged on that in office, it's easy to see why many are reluctant to embrace Beto since his feint to the left is clearly to get elected.
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All politicians who transition from localized politics to national level issues are going to have a hard rethink of their policies before diving onto the national and international stage. House members are more focused on their districts and figuring out how to raise money to get reelected every two years. The Presidency and the policies it entails are a completely different animal.
 
Eboue said:
:lol: which inordinate resources would those be
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The newest keyboards :drool:

The line of thinking that Sanders’s supporters are trying to publicly assassinate BOR’s character doesn’t really compute, because a) they are facts and b) if anything, they should go for Biden first.

Based on both his personal life and congressional record, it’s fairly safe to say BOR is no traitor to his class in the veins of FDR. The fact that he once switched party to run for Congress as a Republican doesn’t exactly inspire confidence either.
 
Raoul said:
All politicians who transition from localized politics to national level issues are going to have a hard rethink of their policies before diving onto the national and international stage. House members are more focused on their districts and figuring out how to raise money to get reelected every two years. The Presidency and the policies it entails are a completely different animal.
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Of course, anyone transitioning from one level of politics to another is obviously going to have to adapt - the issue here is Beto being seen as a champion of the progressive left when his entire voting record appears to show that he's dead in the centre. Obviously he's going to have to pander more to the centre in a conservative state like Texas but at the same time that doesn't mean he can automatically rebrand his political philosophy without doubts as to whether or not he's being genuine. There's adapting what you believe and there's becoming a different politician. Those criticising him are coordinating attacks but are merely advocating caution concerning someone who is being seen as progressive when his voting record shows otherwise.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
The newest keyboards :drool:

The line of thinking that Sanders’s supporters are trying to publicly assassinate BOR’s character doesn’t really compute, because a) they are facts and b) if anything, they should go for Biden first.

Based on both his personal life and congressional record, it’s fairly safe to say BOR is no traitor to his class in the veins of FDR. The fact that he once switched party to run for Congress as a Republican doesn’t exactly inspire confidence either.
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its bizarre. its like some people dont understand the concept of primaries.
 
Raoul said:
Maybe not in Europe, but he is in American political terms
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Only if we allow Rush limbaugh/Fox News to inaccurately define terms.

We have to remember even Rich Nixon proposed nationalized health care. Even taking into account the US unique views of right and left Bernie still isn't "hard left" just because he supports medicare for all and raising mininum wage.
 
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