2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

Status
Not open for further replies.
Good interview with Noam Chomsky in the New Statesman today.

I've quoted the pertinent part to the 2020 US Election, but the whole thing is worth reading so I've included the link below.

“He’s already announced repeatedly that if he doesn’t like the outcome of the election he won’t leave. And this is taken very seriously by two high-level military officers, ex-military leaders, who’ve just sent a letter to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, reviewing for him his constitutional duties if the president refuses to leave office and gathers around him the paramilitary forces that he’s been using to terrorise people in Portland.

“The military has a duty in that case, the 82nd Airborne Division, to remove him by force. There’s a transition integrity project, high-level people from the Republicans and the Democrats; they’ve been running war games asking what would happen if Trump refuses to leave office – every one of them leads to civil war, every scenario that they can think of except a Trump victory leads to civil war. This is not a joke – nothing like this has happened in the history of parliamentary democracy.

“It was bad enough when your guy, Boris Johnson, prorogued parliament, which led to a furore. The Supreme Court intervened but it was too late. The [US] Supreme Court isn’t going to intervene here, not after the right-wing appointments that Trump has managed, so we’re at a moment that has never happened.”

“What the left should do is what it always should do: it should recognise that real politics is constant activism, in one form or another. Every couple of years something comes along called an election, you should take off a few minutes to decide if it’s worth voting against somebody, rarely for somebody. In the course of, say, Corbyn in England, I would have voted for him but most of the time the question is ‘who do you vote against?’

“This time the answer to that question is just overwhelmingly obvious: the Trump Republicans are just so utterly outrageous, way off the spectrum, that there’s simply no question about voting against them. So you take off a few minutes, go to the voting booth, push a lever, vote against Trump, which in a two-party system means you have to push the vote for the other candidate. But then the next thing you do is to challenge them, keep the pressure on to move them towards progressive programmes.”
Click to expand...


https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2020/09/noam-chomsky-world-most-dangerous-moment-human-history
 
calodo2003 said:
F-18s’ fins are more angled & the plane is more pointed, less triangular towards its nose. They are close, though, engineered & first built at exactly the same time.
Click to expand...

Ooh good spot on the tail fins! I see it now.

nimic said:
It's been confirmed that they are Russian planes and Russian soldiers.
Click to expand...

It was fun looking at the clues, anyway.
 
SirAF said:
https://www.270towin.com/maps/je99E

What do you think about this @Raoul? To me it seems like the most important thing for Biden is to defend Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania - all states where he has a decent lead, bar maybe PA. I’ve also been a bit pessimistic in ceding Nevada and Arizona to Trump.

I’ve not even considered Florida as an option. I feel a bit better now.
Click to expand...

You've just shown the worst case scenario that Biden can afford in the election and it's safe to say he's currently on track to get this at minimum. For what it's worth, I believe Biden will win Nevada and Arizona, although the former will be a tad too close for comfort I suppose. I actually think Biden will win AZ by 2-3 points when it's all said and done, lots of angry suburban voters there right now having to do with the poor COVID response.
 
freeurmind said:
Click to expand...


Yeah, so this is bullshit (I could not bring myself to watch the whole video, so if it says differently I apologize).

Living in WI this has been big news. Essentially the GP VP filled out her paperwork wrong. The election board asked for a redo of the paperwork and none was provided. Then they asked for just an explanation (in an official affidavit) and none was provided. The bipartisan election board rightly certified the application as invalid. Then the GP waited weeks till 7 days before the deadline to mail all absentee ballots to file the lawsuit. Even the insanely partisan State Supreme Court (that made us vote in person in a pandemic) couldn’t come up with a way to get them on the ballot.
 
Drifter said:
Judge blocks 'politically motivated' changes to U.S. Postal Service ahead of election

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-post-office-idUSKBN26836Y
Click to expand...
presumably they will appeal?
and / or simply not act on the judges decision and force another court case to make them do anything - should but them another month or more ... then if they loose the appeal and are forced to do something carry it out as slowly as possible which presumably pushes it past the election deadline anyway?
 
sport2793 said:
You've just shown the worst case scenario that Biden can afford in the election and it's safe to say he's currently on track to get this at minimum. For what it's worth, I believe Biden will win Nevada and Arizona, although the former will be a tad too close for comfort I suppose. I actually think Biden will win AZ by 2-3 points when it's all said and done, lots of angry suburban voters there right now having to do with the poor COVID response.
Click to expand...

I think he has a decent chance of picking up AZ - especially given that Senate races there have been trending towards Dems in recent cycles. At this point, its just a turnout game in Maricopa. NV should be comparably as close - which would be counterintuitive given that its also been trending Dem in recent cycles.

I'd like to see some new polling out of Ohio (strangely they haven't released polls there in weeks which is odd so late in the cycle). If Biden is competitive there, I'd feel comfortable that he would win all the rust belt states.
 
There is a long article in my Dutch newspaper today about all the ways in which it is being tried to limit who can vote - basically all those ways the Republicans are trying to limit who can vote, Trump's attempts to discredit and make impossible mail voting, Trump's call on his followers to try to vote by mail and in person, the Republicans signing up people to harass voters at polling stations (dressed up differently, but that's the idea of course), attempts to reduce the number of polling stations (especially in Democrats-leaning neighbourhoods, of course), and creating voter ID difficulties. And there is more. (I haven't even gotten into gerrymandering for elections outside the Senate and the President.)

I have seen every single item listed in the article being discussed before in other contexts, but not in a comprehensive list like this. It really hit me how much is happening that absolutely compromises the idea of fair and truly democratic elections. How do the Republicans manage with that morally? I know Trump will happily admit to what's happening, but I think he's pretty unique in that sense. And what's the general public response in the US? To me, this is outrageous, but I'm guessing the public has probably become apathetic, apart from the hardcore followers, one half of whom won't care because it's in the advantage of their party.

(Yes, unfair elections happen in many countries; but those other countries don't present themselves as the world's shining beacon of freedom and democracy. It's equally bad, but not quite the same context and issue.)
 
Sweet Square said:
Click to expand...

I think a single payer under the Democrats would be worlds apart from a single payer under republicans. Imagine what McConnell and Trump would call "unnecessary" and wouldn't qualify.
It's also about competency and Republicans have shown over the last 40 years that they don't have any. Democrats are not to far behind in some aspects but if the health of my family depended on it I would rather it be in the hands of most Dems over a Tom Cotton or Jared Kushner.
 
It's why MSNBC hated Bernie so much. How dare he try and uplift and help the working / middle class.
 
The popular myth that hard work will get you everything.

Still don't get why everyone who works hard in shitty jobs and stays poor isn't insulted by that.
 
Cheimoon said:
The popular myth that hard work will get you everything.

Still don't get why everyone who works hard in shitty jobs and stays poor isn't insulted by that.
Click to expand...

Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps was originally a way of talking about something that was basically impossible. Somehow that turned into the unofficial motto of the US as a positive.
 
Cheimoon said:
The popular myth that hard work will get you everything.

Still don't get why everyone who works hard in shitty jobs and stays poor isn't insulted by that.
Click to expand...
“The American Dream” is the greatest con ever pulled, it allows the GOP to destroy the working and middle classes because everyone is concerned for the day when they’ll be one of the rich.
 
Raoul said:
Which shows you how far away we are from something like ever being enacted into law.
Click to expand...
They should ask every person polled to tell tham what "Single-payer healthcare" means first. How many will have any clue? Was just the same with the ACA. They polled people about their opinion of "Obamacare" and it polled terribly. Then they asked about the isolated policies of "Obamacare", without naming it that, and people were broadly in favor of them.
 
Democrats will cave and give the court to the GOP. If anyone thinks trump concedes in any circumstance now on electon night, you're a lost cause.

What you are about to witness is the biggest purge of legitimate votes probably anywhere in the world.
 


Trump supporters turning up to block and harass in-person early voting. "Peaceful transition of power" my ass.
 
WPMUFC said:
Democrats will cave and give the court to the GOP. If anyone thinks trump concedes in any circumstance now on electon night, you're a lost cause.

What you are about to witness is the biggest purge of legitimate votes probably anywhere in the world.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it a very real possibility that Trump wins election night, but not the election once the mail in votes are counted?
 
Klopper76 said:
Isn’t it a very real possibility that Trump wins election night, but not the election once the mail in votes are counted?
Click to expand...

Yup. And his plan will be to get the supreme court to rule the election over before all the mail ballots have been counted, by raising law suits left, right and center to try and drag the process out as long as possible. Something that already worked on a smaller scale in 2000 and which he is about to have an even friendlier Supreme Court to aid him with.
 
Klopper76 said:
Isn’t it a very real possibility that Trump wins election night, but not the election once the mail in votes are counted?
Click to expand...
President Donald Trump's lawyers are trying to revive the Supreme Court decision that awarded George W. Bush the presidency in 2000 to fight mail-in voting practices for the upcoming presidential election.

If the Trump campaign's new legal approach succeeds, it could lead to the mass discarding of votes in November, a prospect that has drawn concern from some Democrats as states increasingly encourage vote-by-mail options because of the Covid-19 pandemic.
Click to expand...

and there is likely other legal attempts to be made on election night and the next day to target swing states to discard mail votes.

Trumpists are already trying to block actual people voting in person. This isn't about voter fraud or secure elections. It's about an ideology trying to permanently install itself into power.
 
WPMUFC said:


Trump supporters turning up to block and harass in-person early voting. "Peaceful transition of power" my ass.
Click to expand...

What's the idea here? Are Democrats more likely to vote early?

So, how democratic is the US now? Voter harrassment and surpression are common, the electoral process and recourse to the courts have been politicized, and beyond all that, the first past the post system, gerrymandering, and the allotment of electoral votes and Senate seats to states means that majority rule is miles away. Pretty disturbing stuff altogether - for a supposedly democratic country! (I mean, it's not Russia, but then no-one outside Putin's fans would call Russia a functional democracy.)
 
Cheimoon said:
What's the idea here? Are Democrats more likely to vote early?

So, how democratic is the US now? Voter harrassment and surpression are common, the electoral process and recourse to the courts have been politicized, and beyond all that, the first past the post system, gerrymandering, and the allotment of electoral votes and Senate seats to states means that majority rule is miles away. Pretty disturbing stuff altogether - for a supposedly democratic country! (I mean, it's not Russia, but then no-one outside Putin's fans would call Russia a functional democracy.)
Click to expand...

Still very Democratic, but incrementally less so recently imo.
 
Raoul said:
Still very Democratic, but incrementally less so recently imo.
Click to expand...
"Very democratic" is pushing it. The US is a flawed democracy according to a range of indicators.

RankCountryScoreElectoral process
and pluralism		Functioning of
government		Political
participation		Political
culture		Civil
liberties		Regime
type
1Norway9.8710.009.6410.0010.009.71Full democracy
2Iceland9.5810.009.298.8910.009.71Full democracy
3Sweden9.399.589.648.3310.009.41Full democracy
4New Zealand9.2610.009.298.898.1310.00Full democracy
5Finland9.2510.008.938.898.759.71Full democracy
6Ireland9.2410.007.868.3310.0010.00Full democracy
7Denmark9.2210.009.298.339.389.12Full democracy
7Canada9.229.589.647.789.389.71Full democracy
9Australia9.0910.008.937.788.7510.00Full democracy
10 Switzerland9.039.589.297.789.389.12Full democracy
11Netherlands9.019.589.298.338.759.12Full democracy
12Luxembourg8.8110.008.936.678.759.71Full democracy
13Germany8.689.588.578.337.509.41Full democracy
14United Kingdom8.529.587.508.897.509.12Full democracy
15Uruguay8.3810.008.576.117.509.71Full democracy
16Austria8.299.587.868.336.888.82Full democracy
16Spain8.299.587.147.788.138.82Full democracy
18Mauritius8.229.178.215.568.759.41Full democracy
19Costa Rica8.139.587.506.677.509.41Full democracy
20France8.129.587.867.786.888.53Full democracy
21Chile8.089.588.575.008.139.12Full democracy
22Portugal8.039.587.866.117.509.12Full democracy
23South Korea8.009.177.867.227.508.24Flawed democracy
24Japan7.998.758.216.677.508.82Flawed democracy
25United States7.969.177.147.787.508.24Flawed democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
 
Dante said:
"Very democratic" is pushing it. The US is a flawed democracy according to a range of indicators.

RankCountryScoreElectoral process
and pluralism		Functioning of
government		Political
participation		Political
culture		Civil
liberties		Regime
type
1Norway9.8710.009.6410.0010.009.71Full democracy
2Iceland9.5810.009.298.8910.009.71Full democracy
3Sweden9.399.589.648.3310.009.41Full democracy
4New Zealand9.2610.009.298.898.1310.00Full democracy
5Finland9.2510.008.938.898.759.71Full democracy
6Ireland9.2410.007.868.3310.0010.00Full democracy
7Denmark9.2210.009.298.339.389.12Full democracy
7Canada9.229.589.647.789.389.71Full democracy
9Australia9.0910.008.937.788.7510.00Full democracy
10 Switzerland9.039.589.297.789.389.12Full democracy
11Netherlands9.019.589.298.338.759.12Full democracy
12Luxembourg8.8110.008.936.678.759.71Full democracy
13Germany8.689.588.578.337.509.41Full democracy
14United Kingdom8.529.587.508.897.509.12Full democracy
15Uruguay8.3810.008.576.117.509.71Full democracy
16Austria8.299.587.868.336.888.82Full democracy
16Spain8.299.587.147.788.138.82Full democracy
18Mauritius8.229.178.215.568.759.41Full democracy
19Costa Rica8.139.587.506.677.509.41Full democracy
20France8.129.587.867.786.888.53Full democracy
21Chile8.089.588.575.008.139.12Full democracy
22Portugal8.039.587.866.117.509.12Full democracy
23South Korea8.009.177.867.227.508.24Flawed democracy
24Japan7.998.758.216.677.508.82Flawed democracy
25United States7.969.177.147.787.508.24Flawed democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Click to expand...

The US will never move up in lists like this due to the electoral college and the Senate, as well as the fact that its a constitutional republic. Still you can vote for whoever you want at any level - whether they are from one of the two mainstream parties or any of the dozen or so fringe parties.
 
Raoul said:
The US will never move up in lists like this due to the electoral college and the Senate, as well as the fact that its a constitutional republic. Still you can vote for whoever you want at any level - whether they are from one of the two mainstream parties or any of the dozen or so fringe parties.
Click to expand...

The electoral college would surely go under electoral process, which is its highest category in that list.

Not sure what you mean about the constitutional republic?
 
Raoul said:
The US will never move up in lists like this due to the electoral college and the Senate, as well as the fact that its a constitutional republic. Still you can vote for whoever you want at any level - whether they are from one of the two mainstream parties or any of the dozen or so fringe parties.
Click to expand...
The US was at 8.18 in 2010 with all of those factors still in place.

It's drop down the list has been more recent than that.
 
Dante said:
"Very democratic" is pushing it. The US is a flawed democracy according to a range of indicators.

RankCountryScoreElectoral process
and pluralism		Functioning of
government		Political
participation		Political
culture		Civil
liberties		Regime
type
1Norway9.8710.009.6410.0010.009.71Full democracy
2Iceland9.5810.009.298.8910.009.71Full democracy
3Sweden9.399.589.648.3310.009.41Full democracy
4New Zealand9.2610.009.298.898.1310.00Full democracy
5Finland9.2510.008.938.898.759.71Full democracy
6Ireland9.2410.007.868.3310.0010.00Full democracy
7Denmark9.2210.009.298.339.389.12Full democracy
7Canada9.229.589.647.789.389.71Full democracy
9Australia9.0910.008.937.788.7510.00Full democracy
10 Switzerland9.039.589.297.789.389.12Full democracy
11Netherlands9.019.589.298.338.759.12Full democracy
12Luxembourg8.8110.008.936.678.759.71Full democracy
13Germany8.689.588.578.337.509.41Full democracy
14United Kingdom8.529.587.508.897.509.12Full democracy
15Uruguay8.3810.008.576.117.509.71Full democracy
16Austria8.299.587.868.336.888.82Full democracy
16Spain8.299.587.147.788.138.82Full democracy
18Mauritius8.229.178.215.568.759.41Full democracy
19Costa Rica8.139.587.506.677.509.41Full democracy
20France8.129.587.867.786.888.53Full democracy
21Chile8.089.588.575.008.139.12Full democracy
22Portugal8.039.587.866.117.509.12Full democracy
23South Korea8.009.177.867.227.508.24Flawed democracy
24Japan7.998.758.216.677.508.82Flawed democracy
25United States7.969.177.147.787.508.24Flawed democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Click to expand...
I imagine they'll be dropping further on electoral process next time.
 
Americans in general have this idea of being the greatest democracy ever, I suspect most of them will still believe it even when everyone else sees they're not a democracy anymore. The kind of stuff we read on a daily basis nowadays would make us say it's not a functional democracy anymore if the news were coming from a developing country.
 
nimic said:
The electoral college would surely go under electoral process, which is its highest category in that list.

Not sure what you mean about the constitutional republic?
Click to expand...
I agree. The US score relatively low.on the Functioning of Government, Political Participation, and Civil Liberties categories. Surely those don't have much to do with the electoral system. (Though the nature of the system can discourage people from participating.)

I'm also curious about the constitutional republic comment. I would anyway comment that the 'consitutional' in there doesn't say much about the democratic-ness of a country. We're seeing now that the US constitution doesn't do nearly everything you'd want it to do, and leaves lots of wiggle room for someone unscrupulous like Trump or Barr. (Similar in Canada for that matter, but politics luckily remain more well-mannered over here, for the time being.)
 
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/20/joe-biden-liberals-bipartisanship-419127

Liberals are furious. And they want Joe Biden to channel their angst and calm their nerves by advocating for every tactical maneuver available to stall Donald Trump’s coming Supreme Court nomination in the Senate.
Biden did something else on Sunday, using his first extended remarks about the future of the high court since the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg to strike notes that have formed the basis of his campaign: respect for precedent, appeals to reason, bipartisanship, devotion to checks and balances.
...
Asked about the overtures to Republicans from the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, Republican strategist Scott Jennings shot back, “lol.”
“If his view of politics is that because Republicans were mean to Obama, they must now be mean to Trump, a president of their own party, grow up,” Jennings said, pointing to Biden and Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer’s calls for confirmation hearings for Garland in 2016.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.