Your willingness to ‘fight’ seems to basically amount to handing the Republicans everything they’ve ever wanted because the Democrats kind of suck too. Well done, I’m sure your amazing strategy will bring great things..
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
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Your willingness to ‘fight’ seems to basically amount to handing the Republicans everything they’ve ever wanted because the Democrats kind of suck too. Well done, I’m sure your amazing strategy will bring great things..
which part of being ideologically opposed to the DNC is so difficult for you guys? We don't think they kind of suck. We want them to lose all their power. We want to take the party for ourselves and that doesn't work while people like joe biden are there and in charge
It's morally admirable not to vote for a rapist. It really is that simple.
I wouldn't advocate voting 3rd party. More that people try to both organise(Unions, activist groups, etc)and start thinking of genuine alternatives(The sad reality was even Sanders plan while very good still would have to be more radical to really take on climate change).And you are taking it more seriously by advocating people vote for candidates who will get the likes of Trump re-elected and accelerating climate change at a FAR greater rate. Got it.
Soz but I'm just going to post this again
The odd environmental protection policy here and there won't mean anything in the grand scheme of the climate breakdown we are likely facing. Again you are just arguing about bringing lots of cups of water in order to fight a forrest fire, yes it's better than nothing but it will not solve anything.
When it comes to climate change the democratic party isn't demonstrably less shit than the republicans and actually my whole point is demonstrably less shit when it comes to climate change isn't anywhere near good enough, the outcome will still be mass climate breakdown.
I mean you did try to put a positive spin on using a cup of water as a way of putting a forrest fire out.
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I think a fundamental problem is that there is no such thing as "we", since progressives, lefties, socialists, and other random straphangers, each view this issue slightly differently. The further left you go, the less viable Dem voters there were in the first place.
Hillary apparently lost olds to Trump by 7 points in 2016
This feels like you actually hate progressives more than republicans.
Which parts? Couldn't find any.
Hurt feelings
This is getting tiring, but rape allegation is not the same as rape.
Someone is not a rapist cause he has a rape allegation.
Guys like you are a minority on that party though. How many times Bernie has to lose for that to be believed?
So no, the majority won’t move towards the minority cause the minority loves to bitch and won’t vote anyone except their Messiah.
feck me, I had this belief that Bernie bros are as bad as Trump fans, but now I think they are worse. Extremists, the lot of them.
Literally all of it. When you make the argument about saving courts while choosing to ignore how feckless dems have been and will continue to be in stopping republicans. Or when you say nonsense like "at the end of the day we live in democracy blah blah blah" while we all know the dnc did everything to stop progressives from getting elected. They literally paraded a racist, pos republican in Bloomberg to try and stop Bernie. Ignoring all of this to claim a moral high ground in wanting to vote for Biden is a fecking joke. Just say you hate progressives and move on. I can't be bothered to quote the rest of his posts but all of them read the same way.
The only small problem with that being that I am a fecking progressive. I was supporting (as much as a foreigner can) Bernie since he very first announced he was running back in 2015, and I’m probably posted more anti-Hillary arguments in various places than anyone on this fecking forum.
I understand the frustration, and I understand the desire to burn down the DNC and the Democratic establishment. Hell I sympathize with it, and if there was a way to currently achieve it I’d be right there with Silva and the rest. But the time for that is the primaries and the years between elections. If you try that shit in the General you just end up empowering Republicans and ending up with horrible shit that makes everything else you want to do a million times harder. Do you know how many radical federal judgeships Trump has appointed? Those don’t just go away again after he leaves.
Cut off their nose to spite their face, and screw over everyone else in the process.
Grand plan, that.
It is such an easy concept to understand.
The truth is, (some) Bernie fans don’t give a shit for the causes they say they are fighting. They just want to have the morale high ground and win their Twitter wars, by calling everyone shit and a rapist. They don’t give a flying feck about environment, inequality etc. As long as they can demonize everyone else while moaning about how they are victims in all this mess, they are perfectly happy.
didn't you vote lib dem because labour had policies and allegations around the leadership you were appalled by?
Nope, said I was tempted but voted Labour in the end. I’m massively pro-Remain and Corbyn very obviously wasn’t, but as soon as Swinson came in and backed Revoke, and then the little Tory shit it was done for me.
fair enough
I just read that he opposes what US Republicans are up to, and then criticizes an opposition strategy he deems wrong. Funny how things differ sometimes.
I have come across the same argument countless times from centrists. So it is pretty easy to see through it.
So your assertion is that he prioritizes getting rid of Trump because he secretly hates progressives more than Trump?
You do realize this is nonsense and a useless rhetoric, right? Biden knows exactly how to win over Bernie supporters. The fact that he is choosing not to embrace any of his platforms is a testament to how piss poor of a candidate he is. Not to mention the limitations of our so-called "democracy" and its torchbearers such as democrats and the dnc. The guy cannot endorse m4a in the midst of an epidemic.
Why would he go out of his way to appeal to a small minority of people, most of whom aren't even Democrats to begin with, and who probably wouldn't bother leaving home on election day. He would be better off courting independents who left Obama for Trump in 2016.
A small minority of people supports medicare for all?
I'm not talking about a particular policy. The minority of people refers to people on the progressive fringes who aren't likely to vote for the non-Sanders nominee irrespective of who it is. Biden therefore has little incentive to spend much time or energy attempting to bring them into the fold, especially since there are more votes to be gained by way of centrist Obama voters who voted for Trump over Hillary in 2016.
Also, as for medicare for all - its a great policy but wouldn't be implementable, so anyone running on it would basically be attempting to win through a degree of deception, which would probably result in no changes from the current policy.
If the majority actually cared they’d have voted for Bernie not Biden.
it’s almost as if folks here are more than happy to forget that Biden, DNC asked voters to risk their lives and vote for them just a few weeks ago.
If you fight for it, with conviction, even if ending up coming short, you are not deceiving anyone.
Going in like that, will for sure bring much better results policy wise, than going in already with a defeated agreement with the republicans to change nothing, but a little bitty ditty.
Over 60-70% of independents supports medicare for all. They are the votes Biden should go after, you said.
Sounds good. They don't want our votes, they won't get them.
Even more Democrats say they support it than independents yet they still voted for Biden not Bernie.
yeah because they don't vote based on policy.
Bernie supporters and independents do. They are the only votes left in the air.
Fair enough the DNC and Biden might not need them to win, but if he loses, and then he comes out and blame the bernie bros and independents for their loss, gonna be comedy gold.
The fighting bit should've happened during the primaries when the guy running on M4A was in need of progressive and young votes. You can't not turn up then expect the guy that beat you to adopt your favorite policies. It doesn't work that way.
For sure, but then don't expect those people votes.
Anyway, what I'm saying is: Biden is not running on policy, social issues, not because he can't get shit done, but because he and the DNC, are absolutely opposed to it. They would risk losing a second term to Trump, if it means the big corporations are not touched.
I wouldnt link independent voters with Bernie supporters. Many of them wouldn't vote for Bernie.
Some progressives voted for Hillary in 16 and likewise some will vote for Biden as well this year, irrespective of his policies since they dont want 4 more years of Trump. The more dogmatic factions of democratic socialists, and hardline Sanders followers wouldn't vote for Biden in any case. The party had its internal fight about whether to adopt a progressive platform through voting for Sanders, and progressives lost that fight, and will now have to figure out whether or not they want to remain relevant, or not participate and be left on the outside look in.
Independents aren’t some great policy driven group, half of them are just Republicans or Democrats who like to claim they’re not aligned with any party yet still vote pretty much 100% along party lines.
so independents aren’t actually independents but just a group of rabid Biden supporters?!
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