2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

Status
Not open for further replies.
senorgregster said:
I'm afraid it's reality in this crappy two party system. I'm no centrist by the way. Pretty sure I'm called a commie behind my back. But I'm a realist. Trump will set us back decades more on the environment. He already did starting day 1.
Click to expand...
trump was able to do that because establishment democrats are worthless and their environmental policies are just posing which is ineffective and easily dismantled, no one who is serious about environmentalism should give them their votes
 
Last edited:
senorgregster said:
I'm afraid it's reality in this crappy two party system. I'm no centrist by the way. Pretty sure I'm called a commie behind my back. But I'm a realist. Trump will set us back decades more on the environment. He already did starting day 1.
Click to expand...

This is really the fundamental reality at the end of the day. Its a two party system where only one of two people will win. You can participate or not participate in electing one of them. If you don't participate then you won't have a seat at the table should your guy win, and if you're not at the table, chances are you'll be on the menu.
 
Silva said:
because people like you are cowards who keep giving the dems votes without demanding anything in return, don't be a coward, demand more
Click to expand...

It’s not being a coward, it’s not being an idiot. The time to get things changed was the primaries, when a shitton of supposed Bernie supporters didn’t bother to get off their asses and actually vote. Now you have a straight binary choice, you either get 4 years of Biden or 4 years of Trump. If you think there’s no difference between those options then you’re politically illiterate.
the last election proved beyond doubt that the democratic party is wortheless
Click to expand...

And? You want change, get more active during the primaries. The only other option is handing over continual control to Republicans in the vague hope that sooner or later people will demand progressive change in the face of Democratic failure, but so far at least that simply hasn’t worked. The worse things get the more people turn towards moderates.

idk bro, no rape > any amount of rape
Click to expand...

Cool, which of the two possible winners is the no rape option?
 
senorgregster said:
Ok, so both of you believe Trump and Biden are equally as bad for the environment, correct?
Click to expand...
Biden vs Trump on climate change

Sweet Square said:
You're arguing that we should use a cup of water to put out a forrest fire because the current administration is ignoring the existence of the fire. Yes the cup of water is better than doing nothing at all but in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty useless.
Click to expand...
 
Kentonio said:
It’s not being a coward, it’s not being an idiot. The time to get things changed was the primaries, when a shitton of supposed Bernie supporters didn’t bother to get off their asses and actually vote. Now you have a straight binary choice, you either get 4 years of Biden or 4 years of Trump. If you think there’s no difference between those options then you’re politically illiterate.
Click to expand...
A primany in which the politicians polling 2nd dropped along with almost everyone else and for some bizzare reason endorsed the person in 4th poll position. They did this because their interest aligned and this is the person they want. Some of us don't want this and are going to spend our time telling people why we don't want this. Yeah. biden won, good job biden, thanks obama. I'm not going to spend my little time on this planet supporting their agenda which goes wholly against everything I believe. Instead I will only ever tell these people to feck off.

Kentonio said:
And? You want change, get more active during the primaries. The only other option is handing over continual control to Republicans in the vague hope that sooner or later people will demand progressive change in the face of Democratic failure, but so far at least that simply hasn’t worked. The worse things get the more people turn towards moderates.
Click to expand...
if that's what the moderates want, okay, for me it's a big no thank you

Kentonio said:
Cool, which of the two possible winners is the no rape option?
Click to expand...
imagine you're in a corridor and there's three doors, one says "big rape & thing you hate most" one says "less rape, but definitely rape and thing you really hate" and one door that says "oh god kill me now", i'm going with kill me now
 
Silva said:
trump was able to do that because establishment democrats are worthless and their environmental policies are just posing which is ineffective and easily dismantled, no one who is serious about environmentalism should give them their votes
Click to expand...

That is so true. May be something to do with them having the same oil companies lining their pockets
 
Kentonio said:
It’s not being a coward, it’s not being an idiot. The time to get things changed was the primaries, when a shitton of supposed Bernie supporters didn’t bother to get off their asses and actually vote. Now you have a straight binary choice, you either get 4 years of Biden or 4 years of Trump. If you think there’s no difference between those options then you’re politically illiterate.
Click to expand...

I was surprised that Sanders wasn't able to leverage his momentum of 2016 into an overwhelming win in 2020. His biggest problem seemed to be that the younger voters who allegedly support him the most, don't actually vote, and would rather vent about life on twitter.
 
Raoul said:
I was surprised that Sanders wasn't able to leverage his momentum of 2016 into an overwhelming win in 2020. His biggest problem seemed to be that the younger voters who allegedly support him the most, don't actually vote, and would rather vent about life on twitter.
Click to expand...
Do you think it was because of his stance on guns? The youth are clearly energized but it seems to be around gun control.
 
senorgregster said:
Is this really a cup of water?
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...lobal-warming-election-2020-candidate-profile
Also, there are many different levels to the environment. While you are focusing on the most important long term, the cups as you put it, become extremely important for current every day life.
Click to expand...
that cup isn't half full

you own link:

Often overlooked, the Obama era stimulus package of 2009 included big investments in climate-friendly research and infrastructure. But Biden is also tethered to Obama's "all-of-the-above" philosophy, which left ample room for the fracking boom that bolstered one fossil fuel, natural gas, over another, coal, and put the U.S. on track to become the world's leading oil producer.

https://insideclimatenews.org/tags/candidate-profiles-2020
Click to expand...
and a bunch of easily repealed shite that satan 2024 (R) will dismantle in 2025
 
senorgregster said:
The write up on Trump.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...lback-fossil-energy-history-candidate-profile
Click to expand...
why do you still think orange man is a good trump card, bidens record isn't in relation to orange man, it's relative to the destruction of the planet and he's not going to do enough, as the obama administration proved

the left doesn't care how bad trump is, the enemy is the democratic establishment, they're the people holding us back republicans don't even come into this, we don't care about that party, we want to take over the democratic party and that's not going to happen if these ghouls maintain power

the only way to save the environment is to make joe bidens position the extreme anti-enviroment one, because that's what it is, that there are worse option out there is a cause of depression not a rallying cry
 
senorgregster said:
Do you think it was because of his stance on guns? The youth are clearly energized but it seems to be around gun control.
Click to expand...

They simply aren't voting in sufficient numbers to where a progressive Presidential candidate could beat a mainstream one. Older people on the other hand, are voting in abudance, which is in part why Biden did so well.

Also, it turns out progressives are a much smaller piece of the Dem equation than previously thought - somewhere in the 20% range, with 20% considering themselves to be neoliberal and the remaining 60% being traditional Dems who vote for whoever their nominee is. I'd also guesstimate that a significant portion of the 20% of progressives are actually not even Dem party members, but rather outsiders seeking to ride Sanders' coattails into political relevance.
 
Raoul said:
I'd also guesstimate that a significant portion of the 20% of progressives are actually not even Dem party members, but rather outsiders seeking to ride Sanders' coattails into political relevance.
Click to expand...
well, yeah, that's the point, to make Bernie a moderate within the democratic party so candidates like him are the compromise

and the only for that to happen is to withhold votes from everyone to his right
 
Silva said:
A primany in which the politicians polling 2nd dropped along with almost everyone else and for some bizzare reason endorsed the person in 4th poll position. They did this because their interest aligned and this is the person they want. Some of us don't want this and are going to spend our time telling people why we don't want this. Yeah. biden won, good job biden, thanks obama. I'm not going to spend my little time on this planet supporting their agenda which goes wholly against everything I believe. Instead I will only ever tell these people to feck off.
Click to expand...

And in the process of telling them to feck off, you allow the worst option to win. Excellent choice there.

imagine you're in a corridor and there's three doors, one says "big rape & thing you hate most" one says "less rape, but definitely rape and thing you really hate" and one door that says "oh god kill me now", i'm going with kill me now
Click to expand...

Except the ‘oh god kill me now’ door just leads straight into the ‘big rape & thing you hate most’ corridor anyway.

For fecks sake it’s not like this is complicated stuff. Choosing between the lesser of two evils is what we do most of our adult lives. This idea that it’s more morally admirable to just not make a choice at all is horseshit.
 
Sweet Square said:


The problem you have is the lesser of two evils argument doesn't work when it comes to climate change. You can't tackle it with only using half measures, 4-8 years wasted on the getting the paris agreement back will be about as effective as Trump current climate plans.

You're arguing that we should use a cup of water to put out a forrest fire because the current administration is ignoring the existence of the fire. Yes the cup of water is better than doing nothing at all but in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty useless.
Click to expand...


Well gosh yeah, maybe one side does want to pour ten million gallons of gasoline on the fire, but the Dems only want to put a cup of water on it so they’re the same..

Jesus fecking Christ...
 
Kentonio said:
Except the ‘oh god kill me now’ door just leads straight into the ‘big rape & thing you hate most’ corridor anyway.

For fecks sake it’s not like this is complicated stuff. Choosing between the lesser of two evils is what we do most of our adult lives. This idea that it’s more morally admirable to just not make a choice at all is horseshit.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying actively stand against joe biden and the DNC establishment. Rinse and repeat until they're all gone.
Kentonio said:
Well gosh yeah, maybe one side does want to pour ten million gallons of gasoline on the fire, but the Dems only want to put a cup of water on it so they’re the same..

Jesus fecking Christ...
Click to expand...
They're the same if you're already on fire.
 
Silva said:
why do you still think orange man is a good trump card, bidens record isn't in relation to orange man, it's relative to the destruction of the planet and he's not going to do enough, as the obama administration proved

the left doesn't care how bad trump is, the enemy is the democratic establishment, they're the people holding us back republicans don't even come into this, we don't care about that party, we want to take over the democratic party and that's not going to happen if these ghouls maintain power

the only way to save the environment is to make joe bidens position the extreme anti-enviroment one, because that's what it is, that there are worse option out there is a cause of depression not a rallying cry
Click to expand...
It absolutely is.

I'd have to read up more on the cup (Biden) vs all out treat the environment like shit (Trump) theory when it comes to the long term sustainability of human life on the planet, but one thing is for sure, Trump is destroying the environment today.
 
Kentonio said:
Well gosh yeah, maybe one side does want to pour ten million gallons of gasoline on the fire, but the Dems only want to put a cup of water on it so they’re the same..

Jesus fecking Christ...
Click to expand...

Thankfully an overwhelming majority of Dem voters don't believe this narrative.
 
senorgregster said:
It absolutely is.

I'd have to read up more on the cup (Biden) vs all out treat the environment like shit (Trump) theory when it comes to the long term sustainability of human life on the planet, but one thing is for sure, Trump is destroying the environment today.
Click to expand...
The environment is being destroyed because of overconsumption of nonrenewable energy resources in places like America. And because of the overconsumption of forrests so people like Americans can enjoy their retail consumerism. Joe biden is going to continue to the expansion of nonrenewable energy and will continue the expansion of consumer goods and kill us all. Even the conservative party in the UK, who sport a significant number of outright climate deniers in parliament are doing more than the democratic party. And if someone told me to vote tory for the environment it would make me want to jump off a bridge.

If the DNC wants joe, they can have him, no amount of disgusting rape apology and lesser of two evils nonsense is going to get leftist to vote for them.
 
Silva said:
The environment is being destroyed because of overconsumption of nonrenewable energy resources in places like America. And because of the overconsumption of forrests so people like Americans can enjoy their retail consumerism. Joe biden is going to continue to the expansion of nonrenewable energy and will continue the expansion of consumer goods and kill us all. Even the conservative party in the UK, who sport a significant number of outright climate deniers in parliament are doing more than the democratic party. And if someone told me to vote tory for the environment it would make me want to jump off a bridge.
Click to expand...
Sorry but your thinking is way too black and white.
 
senorgregster said:
Is this really a cup of water?
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...lobal-warming-election-2020-candidate-profile
Also, there are many different levels to the environment. While you are focusing on the most important long term, the cups as you put it, become extremely important for current every day life.
Click to expand...
Yes. As the report points out Biden own politics undermines any attempt for him to tackle climate change. Biden could come into power with America having it's biggest unemployment numbers in it's history and looking at his record there's nothing to suggest his reaction will be a climate positive one, in fact everything us tell it will be the complete opposite. There just isn't any pro Biden arguments for fighting climate change. Which is shit for us and the planet but thats the truth.

The best argument for voting Biden is watching a democratic president utterly fail to deal with the crisis resulting in maybe people looking at other forms of politics outside the two party system.

Kentonio said:
Well gosh yeah, maybe one side does want to pour ten million gallons of gasoline on the fire, but the Dems only want to put a cup of water on it so they’re the same..

Jesus fecking Christ...
Click to expand...
Er....
Often overlooked, the Obama era stimulus package of 2009 included big investments in climate-friendly research and infrastructure. But Biden is also tethered to Obama's "all-of-the-above" philosophy, which left ample room for the fracking boom that bolstered one fossil fuel, natural gas, over another, coal, and put the U.S. on track to become the world's leading oil producer.

https://insideclimatenews.org/tags/candidate-profiles-2020
Click to expand...
Quick pass me that cup, it's getting rather warm in here. The Democratic aren't going to stop ''pouring gasoline on the fire'' so to speak, the US military is one of the single biggest polluters on the planet for example(Which Biden will do nothing about). The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is one of style not substance.


senorgregster said:
Sorry but your thinking is way too black and white.
Click to expand...
Honestly this is no better than someone who is a climate change denier. You are simply not taking climate change seriously enough.
 
Last edited:
Sweet Square said:
Yes. As the report points out Biden own politics undermines any attempt for him to tackle climate change. Biden could come into power with America having it's biggest unemployment numbers in it's history and looking at his record there's nothing to suggest his reaction will be a climate positive one, in fact everything us tell it will be the complete opposite. There just isn't any pro Biden arguments for fighting climate change. Which is shit for us and the planet but thats the truth.

The best argument for voting Biden is watching a democratic president utterly fail to deal with the crisis resulting in maybe people looking at other forms of politics outside the two party system.


Er....

Quick pass me that cup, it's getting rather warm in here. The Democratic aren't going to stop ''pouring gasoline on the fire'' so to speak, the US military is one of the single biggest polluters on the planet for example(Which Biden will do nothing about). The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is one of style not substance.



Honestly this is no better than someone who is a climate change denier. You are simply not taking climate change seriously enough.
Click to expand...
And you are taking it more seriously by advocating people vote for candidates who will get the likes of Trump re-elected and accelerating climate change at a FAR greater rate. Got it. :lol:
 
Sweet Square said:
Er....

Quick pass me that cup, it's getting rather warm in here. The Democratic aren't going to stop ''pouring gasoline on the fire'' so to speak, the US military is one of the single biggest polluters on the planet for example(Which Biden will do nothing about). The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is one of style not substance.

Honestly this is no better than someone who is a climate change denier. You are simply not taking climate change seriously enough.
Click to expand...

Where as the Republicans just want to strip away basically all environmental protections, push industry at all costs and don’t give a single feck about anything climate related.

These are not the same bloody things!

You guys keep talking as if we don’t know the Democrats are shit. Yes we know they’re shit. But when one is demonstrably less shit then the other, and you must have one or the other, then you don’t need to be a Mensa member to see what your logical choice has to be. Otherwise you’re just virtue signaling while watching the world burn.
 
senorgregster said:
And you are taking it more seriously by advocating people vote for candidates who will get the likes of Trump re-elected and accelerating climate change at a FAR greater rate. Got it. :lol:
Click to expand...
Any Democrat 2020 would be worse for the environment than any president they succeed. Any republican 2020 would be worse for the environment than any president they succeed. Any vote for the expansion of non renewables is a vote against environmentalism. These people are all pouring gasoline onto the fire. One of them is laughing, the other has stuck a fake greenpeace sticker on their gas canister.
 
Kentonio said:
Where as the Republicans just want to strip away basically all environmental protections, push industry at all costs and don’t give a single feck about anything climate related.

These are not the same bloody things!

You guys keep talking as if we don’t know the Democrats are shit. Yes we know they’re shit. But when one is demonstrably less shit then the other, and you must have one or the other, then you don’t need to be a Mensa member to see what your logical choice has to be. Otherwise you’re just virtue signaling while watching the world burn.
Click to expand...
The reason the democrats keep being shit, and get shitter and shitter and shitter is because they can always rely on cowards to stand up and say "good isn't possible"
 
Silva said:
I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying actively stand against joe biden and the DNC establishment. Rinse and repeat until they're all gone.
Click to expand...

That’s what people said last time, how’s that working out for us?

At the end of the day its democracy. You have the primaries to change the party and twice now that hasn’t happened. So tell me, how do you change the party? How do you get rid of the establishment Dems without condemning America to decades of Republican misrule? Because that’s just going to lead to a complete lockdown of the courts and possibly even constitutional amendments. Only a few years ago the GOP were terrifyingly close to having enough states to form a constitutional convention, and if that ever happens then it’s game over for real.
 
Silva said:
The reason the democrats keep being shit, and get shitter and shitter and shitter is because they can always rely on cowards to stand up and say "good isn't possible"
Click to expand...

Twice now the American public have had a progressive Democratic option to vote for instead of the moderate. Twice now they’ve voted for the moderate. Tell me how you change that. Because whining about it once you get to the General is just stupid as feck.
 
Kentonio said:
That’s what people said last time, how’s that working out for us?
Click to expand...
Is that all you have the stomach for? Do you really have no fight in you?

Kentonio said:
At the end of the day its democracy. You have the primaries to change the party and twice now that hasn’t happened. So tell me, how do you change the party?
Click to expand...
third time lucky, fourth time lucky, fifth time lucky etc. etc.

Kentonio said:
How do you get rid of the establishment Dems without condemning America to decades of Republican misrule?
Click to expand...
one at a time

america has already been condemned to decades of republican misrule with democrats bowing to their every need and constantly chasing "never trump" or "never satan 2024" voters by moving to the right at every election

Kentonio said:
Because that’s just going to lead to a complete lockdown of the courts and possibly even constitutional amendments. Only a few years ago the GOP were terrifyingly close to having enough states to form a constitutional convention, and if that ever happens then it’s game over for real.
Click to expand...
when the republicans gain the power required to change the constitution the democrats will say "oh, well, that's that guys we should vote with them for the sake of unity" because they're fake friends
 
Kentonio said:
Twice now the American public have had a progressive Democratic option to vote for instead of the moderate. Twice now they’ve voted for the moderate. Tell me how you change that. Because whining about it once you get to the General is just stupid as feck.
Click to expand...
by not voting for joe biden, letting him lose and forcing the party to appeal to people like me
 
fishfingers15 said:
leftists : "Environment is the most important to us and that's why we need our guy to win".

leftists : "Since our guy is not on the ballot, let it go to shit anyway.
Click to expand...

That's an incredibly disingenuous way to put it. It's a cute sound-bite, but it doesn't match reality or the discussion that has been going on in this thread for the last few pages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.