2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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The only hope of Biden beating Trump really is to stow him away until November, because every time he opens his mouth on a non-scripted occasion it gets ugly.
Trump can get away with it, as he's simply the perceived king of all the idiots in your country. They'll flock, just because they're proud of having a fellow imbecile running the show.
Biden however, needs to convince folks beyond his crowd of feck you, got mine-boomers. Given his record that will be everything but easy.
And yeah, saying that the corporate establishment of this party would take Trump over Sanders any time, isn't exactly far fetched.
The last part about the DNC establishment getting what they wanted is the only part he got right. The rest is absolute rubbish, including them wanting 4 more years of Donald.

There was no sudden mainstream media conspiracy to turn Biden into the electable candidate, he was that from the jump and the only reason he was relevant. It’s not going to be a bloodbath or one of the most lopsided results in history; nearly all the electoral votes are already baked in.

So quite comfortably wrong on almost everything.
 
The last part about the DNC establishment getting what they wanted is the only part he got right. The rest is absolute rubbish, including them wanting 4 more years of Donald.

There was no sudden mainstream media conspiracy to turn Biden into the electable candidate, he was that from the jump and the only reason he was relevant. It’s not going to be a bloodbath or one of the most lopsided results in history; nearly all the electoral votes are already baked in.

So quite comfortably wrong on almost everything.
Well if they don’t actively want four more years of Trump, they sure do actively love a losing strategy because they actively don’t learn their lessons, and actively have MSM drown us with their talking points to aid in their losing strategy.
 
The Democratic establishment must be delighted, they've got exactly what they want. 4 more years of Trump.

Funny how the 'electibility' polls only swung Joe Biden's way once the mainstream media started banging that drum non-stop. Of course everyone really knows it's going to be a bloodbath. I'm predicting one of the most lopsided results in history. Hope I'm wrong.

Ultimately, the alternative didn’t do enough to expand his base of support during the four years since his previous attempt. You can’t just propose a series of policies and expect everyone to vote for you because they think the policies are great. You have to build coalitions and expand your base of support beyond the narrow classist arguments and reach out to specific groups that have traditionally voted for the other guy, as that’s what Is needed to build the broad mass movement Sanders always talked about.
 
Ultimately, the alternative didn’t do enough to expand his base of support during the four years since his previous attempt. You can’t just propose a series of policies and expect everyone to vote for you because they think the policies are great. You have to build coalitions and expand your base of support beyond the narrow classist arguments and reach out to specific groups that have traditionally voted for the other guy, as that’s what Is needed to build the broad mass movement Sanders always talked about.

There's definitely truth in that too. Sanders campaign has made a lot of mistakes along the way unfortunately. It was looking rosy while the Democrats appeared to be splintered the way the GOP was in 2016, but they got real organized, real quick heading in to Super Tuesday.
 
Guys, debates don't matter.
I'm willing to bet that we'll have self-driving cars and a cure for all cancers by the time the US elects a social democrat/democratic socialist.
What's curious is that those things will probably come from the US.
 
Guys, debates don't matter.

What's curious is that those things will probably come from the US.

In general, I agree but if for some reason, Biden completely stumbles and can't finish his sentences, it could turn the election (Biden would really have to mess up for that to happen). Meaning, this is a chance for Biden to prove that he has the mental faculties to be presedent. If he does that, it's over for Sanders.
 
Well if they don’t actively want four more years of Trump, they sure do actively love a losing strategy because they actively don’t learn their lessons, and actively have MSM drown us with their talking points to aid in their losing strategy.
I don’t actively understand why they’d prefer another term for Donald in place of Biden (instead of Bernie), or why you keep using the word actively.
 
I don’t actively understand why they’d prefer another term for Donald in place of Biden (instead of Bernie), or why you keep using the word actively.

Well, all things considered, Donald has been pretty useful for the money elites...
 
I think the US is beyond saving at this point. And by "beyond saving" I mean universal health care and "free" college. When even your supposed "left" chooses Hillary and Biden over Bernie, I can't see things changing for a very long time.

I'm willing to bet that we'll have self-driving cars and a cure for all cancers by the time the US elects a social democrat/democratic socialist.

This is probably because there's really no coherent democratic socialist movement in the U.S. If you remove Sanders, the entire movement collapses due to a lack of other viable personalities to pick up the mantle. What it needs is a new, younger version of Sanders (which before anyone suggests it, AOC is not) to give it legs over the next few cycles.
 
I don’t actively understand why they’d prefer another term for Donald in place of Biden (instead of Bernie), or why you keep using the word actively.

My personal opinion is that they don't really expect Biden to win. Do I think they would prefer Trump to Bernie? Absolutely. We can agree to disagree.

Hilary was an overwhelming favorite to beat Trump in 2016 and we know what happened. I just don't see how anyone can honestly expect Biden to fare any better. Electibility polls in Primary season are basically bullshit, but that's more or less the strongest thing Biden has going for him.

Maybe if something major were to drastically alter Trump's support (could coronavirus mishandling be a tipping point if things get really bad?), but he's already gotten away with so much it seems unlikely.
 
I am so mad with my generation. Why can't you just turn up and vote ffs!
The last two weeks have buried the idea Sanders could have won against Trump. He wouldn't have had a prayer.
America as a whole might not be right wing but the electorate certainly is.
Shocking how comfortable this is going to be for Biden. You can't even say turn out is low. The people who want Sanders are simply not turnning up.
Wasn't until I started following US politics I found out universal healthcare is a raving mad socialist idea. Grew up thinking it was bog-standard for a developed country.
 
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Ultimately, the alternative didn’t do enough to expand his base of support during the four years since his previous attempt. You can’t just propose a series of policies and expect everyone to vote for you because they think the policies are great. You have to build coalitions and expand your base of support beyond the narrow classist arguments and reach out to specific groups that have traditionally voted for the other guy, as that’s what Is needed to build the broad mass movement Sanders always talked about.
This.

Anyone saying the DNC want 4 more years of Trump is willfully ignorant imo.
 
Hillary has a better chance than Bernie according to the bookies :lol:

well played Dems, well played.. you survived another 4 years
 

Dumb take. People on the left are angry because they were desperate and wanted any little help they could get from Warren. She was supposed to stand for those values (and she did in her career thus far), but if you really cared for those values now was the time to stand up. They didn't like her cheap attacks on Sanders and punching with the "Bernie Bro" narrative.
 
Bloomberg tried to win the Democratic nomination but failed because he wasn't a Democrat.

Sanders tried to win the Democratic nomination but failed because he wasn't a Democrat.

I don't get the gnashing of teeth over Bernie's failure. Blame the two party system rather than the party itself.
 
Ultimately, the alternative didn’t do enough to expand his base of support during the four years since his previous attempt. You can’t just propose a series of policies and expect everyone to vote for you because they think the policies are great. You have to build coalitions and expand your base of support beyond the narrow classist arguments and reach out to specific groups that have traditionally voted for the other guy, as that’s what Is needed to build the broad mass movement Sanders always talked about.
How do you do that? That's a serious question to you. All his policies cater to the working class, as does his talking points. Same with racial policies and talking points compared to Biden. For example, how could he have prevented Clyburn from endorsing Biden? Clyburn received $1m over 10 years from pharma, and Clyburn noted "Americans don't want something free, they want access." That's a talking point specifically meant to dupe voters in favor of the insurance companies. He was never going to endorse Bernie.

If I were to come up with answers/critiques, I think Bernie should have really hammered home the idea that he was the true Democrat and that he was bringing the democrats to FDR. He only mentioned FDR when on the defense (accused of socialism). This would tell voters "voting for me still means you're a true democrat and that your democrat identity isn't bad." He also should have been more upfront in calling out Biden as corrupt. He undersold his message by always qualifying how Biden was a good person.

Biden had one of the laziest campaigns, with a poor record and still won. I think the youth vote, the media, the democratic establishment coalescing behind Biden, all contributed to the manner in which he lost. Should that have been reversed, Bernie would still have lost, but I think he could have put himself in a position where a debate could bring a narrow victory.
 
How do you do that? That's a serious question to you. All his policies cater to the working class, as does his talking points. Same with racial policies and talking points compared to Biden. For example, how could he have prevented Clyburn from endorsing Biden? Clyburn received $1m over 10 years from pharma, and Clyburn noted "Americans don't want something free, they want access." That's a talking point specifically meant to dupe voters in favor of the insurance companies. He was never going to endorse Bernie.

If I were to come up with answers/critiques, I think Bernie should have really hammered home the idea that he was the true Democrat and that he was bringing the democrats to FDR. He only mentioned FDR when on the defense (accused of socialism). This would tell voters "voting for me still means you're a true democrat and that your democrat identity isn't bad." He also should have been more upfront in calling out Biden as corrupt. He undersold his message by always qualifying how Biden was a good person.

Biden had one of the laziest campaigns, with a poor record and still won. I think the youth vote, the media, the democratic establishment coalescing behind Biden, all contributed to the manner in which he lost. Should that have been reversed, Bernie would still have lost, but I think he could have put himself in a position where a debate could bring a narrow victory.

That's the fundamental problem. Its very difficult to make a bottom up classist argument in American politics where the power structure is inherently top down. Therefore you have to tactically infiltrate the power structure by reaching out to specific groups, creating and nurturing relationships, and constantly reassuring them that your policies will be good for them. Bill Clinton and Obama were very good at this game and Biden is directly benefiting from it in the present (especially in the south). The "Us v Them" class argument isn't enough to get the job done. You have bring other groups into your coalition. If you don't, you will likely get the scenario that is unfolding right now.
 
I think the US is beyond saving at this point. And by "beyond saving" I mean universal health care and "free" college. When even your supposed "left" chooses Hillary and Biden over Bernie, I can't see things changing for a very long time.

I'm willing to bet that we'll have self-driving cars and a cure for all cancers by the time the US elects a social democrat/democratic socialist.
Demographics always win. It will take time but I believe the US will swing to the left soon enough. We just aren't there yet. One of the most socialist people I know surprised me yesterday with a policy he favors that is right out of the GOP policy book. I have a few myself.
 
The Democratic establishment must be delighted, they've got exactly what they want. 4 more years of Trump.

Funny how the 'electibility' polls only swung Joe Biden's way once the mainstream media started banging that drum non-stop. Of course everyone really knows it's going to be a bloodbath. I'm predicting one of the most lopsided results in history. Hope I'm wrong.
Come on now. I think Biden is a weak, terrible candidate overall and would be a weak, pointless President but in no way it's going to be a "bloodbath" and "one of the most lopsided results in history".

Trump won in 2016 with a very low number and share of votes against a candidate that was quite unpopular overall and had been subject to constant attacks by the Republicans for DECADES (and said candidate, Hillary Clinton, would have needed only something like 60k more votes to win); his approval ratings are consistently low, below 50%; he's historically unpopular for an incumbent President.

In addition to all that, the US is more polarised than ever, meaning that a huge number of voters are "locked in" anyway. The result mostly depends on turnout and the small number of swing voters but any Democrat is guaranteed to get at least around 220 electoral votes.
 
That's the fundamental problem. Its very difficult to make a bottom up classist argument in American politics where the power structure is inherently top down. Therefore you have to tactically infiltrate the power structure by reaching out to specific groups, creating and nurturing relationships, and constantly reassuring them that your policies will be good for them. Bill Clinton and Obama were very good at this game and Biden is directly benefiting from it in the present (especially in the south). The "Us v Them" class argument isn't enough to get the job done. You have bring other groups into your coalition. If you don't, you will likely get the scenario that is unfolding right now.
But that's what Bernie was trying to do unlike last go around. He mentioned race more than Biden would, and his policy positions backed that up. For example, one of his policy positions was that those affected by the war on drugs the most should be the ones who benefit the most from the legalization of marijuana's profits.

Biden just coasted. Biden for example did not campaign for a month in the Super Tuesday states. He received all endorsements in like a 2-3 day period. I will say that Biden did put resources into South Carolina, but I can't say the same for the rest.

It's something we have to think about. Like I said, I think the next person needs to have an outsider image towards corporations, but also hammer home the image that they're democrats, history agrees they're true democrats, and that anyone who is voting or might consider voting for that person, would still be part of the tribe they've identified with for all these years. Bernie kind of had this outsider image, but with no emphasis on the tribal aspect still felt by a majority of the dems. He was painted as a radical outsider through and through even if he wasn't.

Also his points needed a wider net. His climate change policy position was mostly aimed at the younger generation, but he should have hammered home the idea that climate change is a racial problem because people of color would suffer the most. He would occasionally mention this, but he really needed to tie the two together. Same with medicare for all and small business. Rarely mentioned small business, and mostly focused on humanitarian reasons in regards to healthcare. If he tied small business with it, it would have been a two pronged attack.

Maybe I'll think up some more criticisms.
 
Come on now. I think Biden is a weak, terrible candidate overall and would be a weak, pointless President but in no way it's going to be a "bloodbath" and "one of the most lopsided results in history".

Trump won in 2016 with a very low number and share of votes against a candidate that was quite unpopular overall and had been subject to constant attacks by the Republicans for DECADES (and said candidate, Hillary Clinton, would have needed only something like 60k more votes to win); his approval ratings are consistently low, below 50%; he's historically unpopular for an incumbent President.

In addition to all that, the US is more polarised than ever, meaning that a huge number of voters are "locked in" anyway. The result mostly depends on turnout and the small number of swing voters but any Democrat is guaranteed to get at least around 220 electoral votes.

You're right that was definitely an exagerration. I do think the campaign is going to be ugly though for Biden. Potentially really ugly. Clinton, despite all her faults, still had her wits about her and could hold her own. You can already see Trump getting ready with the 'Sleepy Joe' rhetoric etc. I don't see Joe faring well there and he won't have the mainstream media advantage in the same way that basically totally turned his Primary campaign around .

The whole Coronavirus situation could maybe throw a spanner into the works for Trump, with his total incompetency brought into sharper focus. Although we all hope that the virus situation won't get as bad as feared.
 
This will feature in a Trump ad.
Yep. Due to the structure of the US media, they will most likely spend all their time talking about Biden health and past history. Build them up, then knock em down.

It's already public knowledge from that leaked Trump conversation of Hilary's VP pick, that he doesn't want to face Sanders the most. Alas we'll never know how that would have played out.
I would have no confidence in Sanders beating Trump(If you can't win the primary then the chances are you can't win the general) but it's clear the Dem base if pretending to be a MSNBC pundit and trying to pick a ''winner''. The polling shows they agree with Sanders polices but electability is for them far more important.
 
I would have no confidence in Sanders beating Trump(If you can't win the primary then the chances are you can't win the general) but it's clear the Dem base if pretending to be a MSNBC pundit and trying to pick a ''winner''. The polling shows they agree with Sanders polices but electability is for them far more important.

Well it was looking potentially hopeful before his Rust Belt support collapsed. That was a major disaster for Sanders. They need to have a long, hard look at what went wrong there.
 
How do you do that? That's a serious question to you. All his policies cater to the working class, as does his talking points. Same with racial policies and talking points compared to Biden. For example, how could he have prevented Clyburn from endorsing Biden? Clyburn received $1m over 10 years from pharma, and Clyburn noted "Americans don't want something free, they want access." That's a talking point specifically meant to dupe voters in favor of the insurance companies. He was never going to endorse Bernie.

If I were to come up with answers/critiques, I think Bernie should have really hammered home the idea that he was the true Democrat and that he was bringing the democrats to FDR. He only mentioned FDR when on the defense (accused of socialism). This would tell voters "voting for me still means you're a true democrat and that your democrat identity isn't bad." He also should have been more upfront in calling out Biden as corrupt. He undersold his message by always qualifying how Biden was a good person.

Biden had one of the laziest campaigns, with a poor record and still won. I think the youth vote, the media, the democratic establishment coalescing behind Biden, all contributed to the manner in which he lost. Should that have been reversed, Bernie would still have lost, but I think he could have put himself in a position where a debate could bring a narrow victory.


Which major European party proposes a similar program to Sanders

Just to name some of his proposals:
- Green new deal with a volume of ~70%+ of GDP over 15 years
- Job guarantee at 15$/h
- mandated ownership of big corporations by workers (20%)

I looked at his homepage and the list of his proposals is quite long and in almost every single category he ends up being more radical than whats implemented in most European countries. His healthcare coverage is more comprehensive, most European countries move(d) away from his ideas of wealth taxation, his tax top rate proposal is higher, investment plans are way way smaller etc.pp. His proposal is substantially to the left of the last Labour manifest.

His presentation matches his program. Just read the language, that he uses to present his plan for internet-access (https://berniesanders.com/issues/high-speed-internet-all/). That’s not how (moderate) social democrats frame their ideas. At least not where I am from.

I remember that I wrote in 2016, that Bernie is essentially just a European social democrat. Looking back, I don’t know if he was far less specific or if I was just not paying attention.

Sanders could have focused on 1-2 areas (healthcare + energy/climate change or employment) and advance bold proposals, while adopting moderate ideas in other areas. That would have smoothed the way for centrists to not get scared, while still offering an agenda that would have substantial impact when implemented.

At least from my perspective its very easy to understand why democratic centrists would be deeply ambivalent about Sanders without adding any nefarious motives. He had 4 years to change that but doubled down on his message. It could have worked and he came close (he still not entirely out). Hindsight is 20/20, but looking back a strategy that reaches out to centrists instead of trying to convert them, might have worked.
 
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