2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Pexbo said:
wHy hAS bERnIE aLwAYS gOT tO ViCIousLy aTTaCK bIDEn?
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I wish Bernie was the Bernie liberals have nightmares about. Sadly he is instead a very nice old socialist.

Raoul said:
Bernie’s messaging has been pretty spot on. It’s the Biden has dementia messaging among the various political grifters who have latched on to Bernie that are beginning to become a stain on his candidacy.
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How so ? If you're running against someone in a political contest but you keep saying the other guy is just as electable as yourself, how is this good messaging ? Bernie should be hammering Biden on his trade votes and saying of course Biden will lose these places to Trump just like Hilary did.

The complaining about pointing out Biden health concerns is to me anyway just a classic democratic move, they pick a seriously flawed nominee for president and then call anyone who points out these flaws as being nasty and rude, while completely forgetting that in the general their nominee will be going up against Trump and the republican party,
 
Raoul said:
Candidates routinely coordinate endorsements at key moments in campaigns for maximum effect. That’s politics.
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What isn't normal is the fact that an ex president is calling up candidates after they drop out and telling them they have "leverage".

Obama reportedly did not directly tell Buttigieg to endorse former Vice President Joe Biden. But he did tell the former South Bend, Ind., mayor that he now has leverage and should consider how to use it, a Democratic official familiar with the conversation told the Times.
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https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...gieg-after-he-dropped-out-of-2020-race-report
 
Sweet Square said:
Bernie messaging lately has been awful


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He's constantly being attacked for not being a democrat and a hindrance to the actually nominee centrists want, hence him pushing back on it. His surrogates get constantly asked whether they would support the democratic nominee no matter who it is, it's his way of showing unity. Meanwhile:

 
Sweet Square said:
I wish Bernie was the Bernie liberals have nightmares about. Sadly he is instead a very nice old socialist.


How so ? If you're running against someone in a political contest but you keep saying the other guy is just as electable as yourself, how is this good messaging ? Bernie should be hammering Biden on his trade votes and saying of course Biden will lose these places to Trump just like Hilary did.

The complaining about pointing out Biden health concerns is to me anyway just a classic democratic move, they pick a seriously flawed nominee for president and then call anyone who points out these flaws as being nasty and rude, while completely forgetting that in the general their nominee will be going up against Trump and the republican party,
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This play nice before the primary is done thing needs to be fecked off tbh. If you can't, then don't run
 
Boycott said:
I just listened to a live Biden speech. Was heckled by a small group on something to do with housing and while the rest of the crowd tried to shout them he told them to stop and invited the group to speak in private which I think they agreed. Other than that it was standard feel good stuff focusing on uniting, education investment, childcare and healthcare policies + quoted an Irish poet at the close to sum up his thoughts that while Trump has done significant damage, the best days lie ahead.

I'm no doctor and don't feel comfortable relying on small cut clips to diagnose from an armchair. This speech was just short of twenty minutes and fine.
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I think you are referring to the rally he did in Missouri. If that was the rally you watched, then you must have missed this



Also Biden lied when he said he would meet with those protesters after the rally ended.

 
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fishfingers15 said:
This play nice before the primary is done thing needs to be fecked off tbh. If you can't, then don't run
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Agree but Matti Taibbi pointed out on a recent podcast that when Bernie entered the senate as a independent he actually got quite a lot of support from the likes of Biden and he does consider Biden his friend.

So i can't see Bernie changing anytime soon.:(
 
Ubik said:
You're ignoring the most important factor in electoral politics - changes in voting patterns. The Dem-GOP gap in white women narrowed between 2012 and 2016, whilst the gap grew in white men. This speaks to how A Circus Clown won the election (in addition to turnout differential). Not that it makes much sense to treat either of those as a bloc these days - urban, younger, college educated white women will be solidly democratic, whilst older, rural, non-college educated white women will be solidly republican.
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My dude, I am telling you white women have helped elect rapists and trample all over the rights of woc who have consistently voted against them. And your argument is "but it isn't as bad as it used to be" sigh.
 
Sweet Square said:
I wish Bernie was the Bernie liberals have nightmares about. Sadly he is instead a very nice old socialist.


How so ? If you're running against someone in a political contest but you keep saying the other guy is just as electable as yourself, how is this good messaging ? Bernie should be hammering Biden on his trade votes and saying of course Biden will lose these places to Trump just like Hilary did.

The complaining about pointing out Biden health concerns is to me anyway just a classic democratic move, they pick a seriously flawed nominee for president and then call anyone who points out these flaws as being nasty and rude, while completely forgetting that in the general their nominee will be going up against Trump and the republican party,
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His messaging has always been distinctly positive and focused on issues, and not a "don't vote for him because he's not electable, and I am", message. And besides, there's zero value in tearing down the eventual nominee (assuming its Biden) and in the process using talking points that Trump will eventually use to court disaffected working class whites ("Sleepy Joe has dementia", and "they stole it from crazy Bernie") etc.
 
Last Sunday before super tuesday Biden appeared on four of the five major morning shows. Only Buttigieg has appeared on all five on a single day.



He appeared on the view 48 hours after getting a 5th place finish in the second contest. He did an entire bus tour where media was invited along in Iowa.

And even Cenk Uygur thought that Biden deserved credit for his debate performance in December.



This dementia/media hiding stuff has only happened after he started winning.
 
Sweet Square said:
Agree but Matti Taibbi pointed out on a recent podcast that when Bernie entered the senate as a independent he actually got quite a lot of support from the likes of Biden and he does consider Biden his friend.

So i can't see Bernie changing anytime soon.:(
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As a leader, Bernie should play it cool like he does but this concerted campaign to make Biden look like a Saint is grating tbh
 
Boycott said:
Last Sunday before super tuesday Biden appeared on four of the five major morning shows. Only Buttigieg has appeared on all five on a single day.



He appeared on the view 48 hours after getting a 5th place finish in the second contest. He did an entire bus tour where media was invited along in Iowa.

And even Cenk Uygur thought that Biden deserved credit for his debate performance in December.



This dementia/media hiding stuff has only happened after he started winning.
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Junk is now suddenly in full on meltdown over Biden's "decline", even using a hashtag about it. He also (running as a well known "progressive") recently got humiliated by an establishment Dem in his own congressional campaign.

kytOES5.png

 
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Raoul said:
Junk is now suddenly full on in meltdown over Biden's "decline", even using a hashtag about it. He also recently got humiliated by an establishment Dem in his own congressional campaign.
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entropy said:
My dude, I am telling you white women have helped elect rapists and trample all over the rights of woc who have consistently voted against them. And your argument is "but it isn't as bad as it used to be" sigh.
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My argument was that the main reason Trump won more electoral votes than Clinton was his gains among other groups, rather than white women, where he lost ground. If your point was purely moral outrage, then okay.
 
Ubik said:
My argument was that the main reason Trump won more electoral votes than Clinton was his gains among other groups, rather than white women, where he lost ground. If your point was purely moral outrage, then okay.
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It isn't moral outrage though. It is a fact. 52% voted for him. The same way white women defended Bill Clinton, white women helped elect Trump and will tell you Joe Jim Crow Biden is a great presidential candidate. I genuinely don't know why this is so hard to grasp. History is littered with so many examples. You can disagree with this as much as you want. But white women help uphold white supremacy. Always have and always will.
 
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Raoul said:
His messaging has always been distinctly positive and focused on issues, and not a "don't vote for him because he's not electable, and I am", message.
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And he lost the dem primary in 2016 with method. It's clear that the dem voters care about Bernie policy but they care even more about beating Trump, Bernie has to make a Biden isn't electable argument or just like in 2016 he is going to lose.

And besides, there's zero value in tearing down the eventual nominee (assuming its Biden) and in the process using talking points that Trump will eventually use to court disaffected working class whites ("Sleepy Joe has dementia", and "they stole it from crazy Bernie") etc.
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1) Republican are going to do the lowest form of attacks possible because well........they actually want to win.

2)This is just an argument against primaries, in any form. If Bernie attacks Biden for shit trade policy and in it turn helps republicans, then it's the fault of Biden voting record not the fact Bernie used it against him in a primary.
 
Anyone who does not see that Biden is deteriorating need to take their head out of the sand, If he's like that now ,what will he be like if nominated. He'll need to work a lot harder than he as already.
 
entropy said:
It isn't moral outrage. It is a fact. 52% voted for him. The same way white women defended Bill Clinton, white women helped elect Trump. I genuinely don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
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A million of black women voted for Obama and Clinton who both killed thousands of people due to their foreign policy views. American is a really shitty country.
 
Sweet Square said:
And he lost the dem primary in 2016 with method. It's clear that the dem voters care about Bernie policy but they care even more about beating Trump, Bernie has to make a Biden isn't electable argument or just like in 2016 he is going to lose.
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He's already reiterated in this campaign that he wants to be about the issues, so if he wants to say Biden isn't electable it will be because of his policies, not because he makes gaffs at speeches that Trump will mock.
 
Raoul said:
He's already reiterated in this campaign that he wants to be about the issues, so if he wants to say Biden isn't electable it will be because of his policies, not because he makes gaffs at speeches that Trump will mock.
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But the interview I posted showed Bernie so far isn't willing to do this. Hopefully this will change.
 
Sweet Square said:
And he lost the dem primary in 2016 with method. It's clear that the dem voters care about Bernie policy but they care even more about beating Trump, Bernie has to make a Biden isn't electable argument or just like in 2016 he is going to lose.
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He lost the moment the Super Tuesday results came in. Don’t do it to yourself.
 
Kentonio said:
He lost the moment the Super Tuesday results came in. Don’t do it to yourself.
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It was always going to be an uphill battle after ST. The only shot Sanders had was if he could get on a debate stage with Biden before the next set of primaries, but its too late for that to happen now.
 
Sweet Square said:
But the interview I posted showed Bernie so far isn't willing to do this. Hopefully this will change.
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Its too late now. The next chance Sanders will have that opportunity is on the 15th at the next debate. The next set of primaries is on the 10th. Sanders could have the best ever debate and destroy Biden, but it will be too late to change the trajectory.
 
Sweet Square said:
A million of black women voted for Obama and Clinton who both killed thousands of people due to their foreign policy views. American is a really shitty country.
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black people voted for him so that he can address the systemic racism that has cost countless black lives. He turned their back on them by resorting to republican talking points like “pull yourself by the bootstrap” or blaming it on absent black fathers etc
 
Boycott said:
Last Sunday before super tuesday Biden appeared on four of the five major morning shows. Only Buttigieg has appeared on all five on a single day.



He appeared on the view 48 hours after getting a 5th place finish in the second contest. He did an entire bus tour where media was invited along in Iowa.

And even Cenk Uygur thought that Biden deserved credit for his debate performance in December.



This dementia/media hiding stuff has only happened after he started winning.
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That's just not true.


This is from August 2019

Biden allies float scaling back events to limit gaffes

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457486-biden-allies-float-scaling-back-events-to-limit-gaffes
 
Drifter said:
Anyone who does not see that Biden is deteriorating need to take their head out of the sand, If he's like that now ,what will he be like if nominated. He'll need to work a lot harder than he as already.
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Honestly - with a POTUS I'd argue Trump is and had been far worse cognitively id rather have a president who might be limited himself to a degree but puts people in place around him that aren't the vilest pieces of shit around. Look at Reagan or W. Too much focus is given to who sits in the WH. In many ways that means far less than who POTUS nominates and assigns to positions of power. No POTUS can attack the very pillars of our democracy as much without willing pawns to play the game for him or to whisper in his ear. The true power in DC is with the lobbyists and political appointees.
 
Kentonio said:
He lost the moment the Super Tuesday results came in. Don’t do it to yourself.
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Yeah you're right, the best I'm hoping for is for him to go into the convention with the any sort of delegates lead(No matter how small)so it puts the party in a very difficult situation. Also I have no confidence that he would beat Trump in the general.

Fergies Gum said:
Its too late now. The next chance Sanders will have that opportunity is on the 15th at the next debate. The next set of primaries is on the 10th. Sanders could have the best ever debate and destroy Biden, but it will be too late to change the trajectory.
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Mostly likely. The debate would have to go really badly for Biden and even then I think after ST people have already made their minds up.


entropy said:
black people voted for him so that he can address the systemic racism that has cost countless black lives. He turned their back on them by resorting to republican talking points like “pull yourself by the bootstrap” or blaming it on absent black fathers etc
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Agree but he was also quite conservative before running for president(But hide it quite well when campaigning, with the whole change shtick).
 
Raoul said:
Bernie’s messaging has been pretty spot on. It’s the Biden has dementia messaging among the various political grifters who have latched on to Bernie that are beginning to become a stain on his candidacy.
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No. The neoliberal establishment can't keep wanting it both ways. They can't spend 4 years insulting Trump's mental capacity then nominate someone with obvious senile issues/mental health concerns of their own and then get their panties in a bunch. This type of hypocrisy is why moderates and independents (not Bernie Bros but the working and middle class) get so turned off by the neoliberal establishment Dems that failed them.
 
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