2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

Status
Not open for further replies.
fishfingers15 said:
Never once I've implied in this board that I know everything about US history. I see a big disconnect in you saying Clinton has no support with the Democratic party base. It doesn't matter if you personally lived in Arkansas as Clinton's biographer in the 90's if there is a disconnect between what you say and what we/I could observe in the 2016 election. Of course, I could be wrong. I've long acknowledged that I always get my posts wrong and I've given grief to Raoul and Red Dreams for posting as if they are sure of what is going to happen.
Click to expand...

You clearly missed the point about how the Democrat base is not the same as the Clinton base. You also missed the point that just because people voted for Clinton doesn't mean they liked or wanted her. There is nuance there that you are just not getting by making this strawman.

fishfingers15 said:
It's also sad that I studied in Tiruchirapalli, India and yet knew more about United States even before I moved here in 2005 than about 50% of US population. If you are going to blame Trump's election on the lack of knowledge in American history and politics, I'm afraid we're going to have Trump elected in 2020 as well.
Click to expand...

And here is more of your arrogance. I'm going to call complete bullshit on this claim based on your posts. Go luck trying to back up this arrogant whopper
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
You clearly missed the point about how the Democrat base is not the same as the Clinton base. You also missed the point that just because people voted for Clinton doesn't mean they liked or wanted her. There is nuance there that you are just not getting by making this strawman.



And here is more of your arrogance. I'm going to call complete bullshit on this claim based on your posts. Go luck trying to back up this arrogant whopper
Click to expand...

For the last time, I don't care about the Clinton base. I don't care if the base exists or if it is a subset of other bases. You said 'Clinton has no pull with the Democratic base'. I think it's wrong. I don't give a feck if there's a nuanced version of a hidden bunker base somewhere but I think this kind of flippant thinking should be killed right at the start or it would mean Clinton running against Sanders. Maybe he will, maybe he wont, but Dems should move from the past and fight the evil that is Trump instead of another prolonged infighting with one camp accusing the other of fixing the elections and the other accusing that one camp doesn't belong to the party.

There's absolutely no study on my educational acumen vs the population of US and it's a made up number. Maybe it's not that much but still a sad reflection of the state of education in US.
 
fishfingers15 said:
For the last time, I don't care about the Clinton base. I don't care if the base exists or if it is a subset of other bases. You said 'Clinton has no pull with the Democratic base'. I think it's wrong. I don't give a feck if there's a nuanced version of a hidden bunker base somewhere but I think this kind of flippant thinking should be killed right at the start or it would mean Clinton running against Sanders. Maybe he will, maybe he wont, but Dems should move from the past and fight the evil that is Trump instead of another prolonged infighting with one camp accusing the other of fixing the elections and the other accusing that one camp doesn't belong to the party.

There's absolutely no study on my educational acumen vs the population of US and it's a made up number. Maybe it's not that much but still a sad reflection of the state of education in US.
Click to expand...

Based on your posts here I can only conclude your arrogant claim was complete and total bullshit.
 
Raoul said:
Cal, assuming you haven't been trolling all this time - give me your top 5 policies (foreign or domestic) that make you gravitate towards Hillary, and why said policies would be better than what any other Dem might offer.
Click to expand...
Why does it have to be better than what the other Dems are offering?

Her policies aren't really so different from what the others are offering and I happen to agree with her hawkish foreign policy.

You say Bernie's free college and universal healthcare is better than her halfway measures? How exactly are you supposed to pay for it?

It's like what she said in her book, zero-minute abs sounds great, but can it really work?

Red Dreams said:
Its absolutely certain all she and her cronies did to steal the nomination will come out again and this time with a lot more clarity and detail.

Trump will be certain for a second term.
Click to expand...
Still ignoring the million more votes she got in the primary... :nono:
 
DR6rHHZ.png
 
Cal? said:
Why does it have to be better than what the other Dems are offering?

Her policies aren't really so different from what the others are offering and I happen to agree with her hawkish foreign policy.

You say Bernie's free college and universal healthcare is better than her halfway measures? How exactly are you supposed to pay for it?

It's like what she said in her book, zero-minute abs sounds great, but can it really work?
Click to expand...

So basically you can't name even one ?
 
Tomato tomato potato potato. What difference does it make if it is A or B or C. They are all the same, warlords who invade countries and kill people.
 
Don't insurance companies contribute highly to the high costs of medical care only for them to "negotiate" it down for themselves? I can't help but think that getting rid of that will reduce the costs, thus making health care more affordable. Also, I'm not opposed to tax increases.
 
Raoul said:
So basically you can't name even one ?
Click to expand...
A already named her hawkish foreign policy, the pivot to Asia.

Again, how is her position so different from the rest? Do you seriously think Sanders can get free college passed? Who’s going to pay for it?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
And that'll still be as useless as it was before. She might win the popular vote again, but she'd still lose the election.
Click to expand...
The fact is she got more delegates in the primary, super or otherwise.

It’s basically fake news created by the Bernie Bros that she somehow stole the nomination.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I'm not a fan of Bernie and don't believe his policies are practical...but I still think Clinton was railroaded for the candidacy.
Click to expand...
She certainly had help, but she was winning anyway. It’s like a team winning 3-0 and the other side claim the game was stolen cos the ref gave a wrong penalty
 
Cal? said:
She certainly had help, but she was winning anyway. It’s like a team winning 3-0 and the other side claim the game was stolen cos the ref gave a wrong penalty
Click to expand...

It just shows that the process was not fair. No wonder in the young americans voting thread, people feel their voices don't really matter. If she was winning anyway, then there was no need to give her help, was there?
 
Cal? said:
She certainly had help, but she was winning anyway. It’s like a team winning 3-0 and the other side claim the game was stolen cos the ref gave a wrong penalty
Click to expand...

Not the best analogy. A better one would be winning 5-4 after having been spotted a 2-0 lead before kickoff.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It just shows that the process was not fair. No wonder in the young americans voting thread, people feel their voices don't really matter. If she was winning anyway, then there was no need to give her help, was there?
Click to expand...
I accept all of this, but that doesn’t mean she stole the nomination like the Bernie Bros claim
 
Cal? said:
A already named her hawkish foreign policy, the pivot to Asia.

Again, how is her position so different from the rest? Do you seriously think Sanders can get free college passed? Who’s going to pay for it?
Click to expand...
Probably not in a 4 year term, but the awareness around it through his rhetoric will leapfrog it to the forefront of Democratic priorities for the future. Look at universal healthcare in this regard and how popular it became because of simply talking about it all the time. As far as paying for it, it's called taxes. It's not rocket science.
 
Raoul said:
Not the best analogy. A better one would be winning 5-4 after having been spotted a 2-0 lead before kickoff.
Click to expand...
In the end it wasn’t even close. She was a lot closer to Obama than Bernie was to her.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Why, Isn't that what happened last election?
Click to expand...
Yeah, and something happening once doesn't mean it'll happen that way every time.

That's not to say it would be a good idea to try it, mind.
Raoul said:
Not the best analogy. A better one would be winning 5-4 after having been spotted a 2-0 lead before kickoff.
Click to expand...
Also a bad analogy, as the superdelegates weren't the deciding factor in the overall total.
 
Cal? said:
In the end it wasn’t even close. She was a lot closer to Obama than Bernie was to her.
Click to expand...

It does matter because news outlets routinely included superdelegates into the delegate counts which created the perceptual illusion that Hillary was ahead by much more than she actually was, and gave those considering voting for Sanders a "why bother, she will win whether I vote for Bernie or not" effect, thereby suppressing his numbers. A dirty, corrupt trick.
 
Cal? said:
Why does it have to be better than what the other Dems are offering?

Her policies aren't really so different from what the others are offering and I happen to agree with her hawkish foreign policy.

You say Bernie's free college and universal healthcare is better than her halfway measures? How exactly are you supposed to pay for it?

It's like what she said in her book, zero-minute abs sounds great, but can it really work?


Still ignoring the million more votes she got in the primary... :nono:
Click to expand...

How exactly did the Republicans pay for their tax cuts?
Do you really understand the cost of Health care now? Obviously not. Read up on how single payer works. There are numerous sites.
College Tuition and other socialist agendas can be paid by reallocation of resources. For one. raising taxes on the top strata.
Eliminating interest costs is a bare minimum.

Before we even address the "million" votes, lets address her stealing the nomination process with the aid of the party machinery.
Do you think people will just forgive and forget? That is why Social Democrats and Progressives hate her guts.

Her votes in the Southern states are meaningless. She was never going to win those states in the GE. Bernie would have won a lot of the Rust Belt States. She will never win them.
heck she even lost MI,WI and PA to the charlatan. Lets not even talk about OH.

Now to the present.

Bernie is no longer a fringe candidate. he has proven himself and he resonates with all voters.

Here is the kicker.
Even the money loving DNC does not want a rotten/damaged candidate called Hillary. That is why they got Brazzile to spill the beans on her "tactics".
Biden is clearing his throat as a back up plan to prevent her. I do not believe he wants to run. Just to prevent her.

Finally here is the core reason why she should not run.

She has Nothing to offer. She never did.

The first time she pushed the experience angle. Experience in what? Pouring tea as a first lady.
btw she is pretty stupid for an attorney. She went for the big states when delegates were awarded on a proportional basis.
Obama went for every state even small states she was not contesting.

Guess what he simply accumulated a lot more delegates. The Super Delegates were not going to vote against a Black candidate were they, no matter what.
Oh also...she pushed the Obama was a Muslim talk...Remember her leaking him in a Muslim garb? And her saying. Sure if he says so. he is a Christian.
You think people forget?

Finally 2016.
Every election is a change election.

But 'stupid' offered Nothing...except hanging on to Obama's coat tails.

Oh She attacked Trump.

Wow that was so effective.

Even if it is not Bernie, there are many other worthwhile candidates who do have something to offer to the American people....err other than "I want to be president"because she feels entitled.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
What has changed? She'll win big in NY/Cali and lose all of middle and south east. I don't think any of the swing states will move the other way.
Click to expand...

We don't know whether she's running or if she did run, whether she would keep the same policies or attempt to lurch to the left to appeal more to progressives by embraces some of Sanders' policies, so there's no way to know what will happen.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
What has changed? She'll win big in NY/Cali and lose all of middle and south east. I don't think any of the swing states will move the other way.
Click to expand...
You can't really produce statements of certainty on future results based on an election that would've flipped if 50-100k people voted a different way.
 
The voters have already said no, by electing one of the worst candidates in history in Donald Trump. There's no discussion to be had regarding Hillary's chances, because there aren't any.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
What has changed? She'll win big in NY/Cali and lose all of middle and south east. I don't think any of the swing states will move the other way.
Click to expand...
Perhaps those who didn't vote for her last time as she wasn't progressive enough or who voted for independents etc think she would be better than 4 more years of trump
To be honest I don't think that she will run unless something comes from the Meuller probe that proves or at least very strongly implies there was something dodgy and she would have won... At that point there may be a tipping point into she was robbed she is the real president and it may give her a boost...
Long time till 2020 and I suspect somebody will emerge from the pack and overtake both her and Bernie
 
sun_tzu said:
Perhaps those who didn't vote for her last time as she wasn't progressive enough or who voted for independents etc think she would be better than 4 more years of trump
To be honest I don't think that she will run unless something comes from the Meuller probe that proves or at least very strongly implies there was something dodgy and she would have won... At that point there may be a tipping point into she was robbed she is the real president and it may give her a boost...
Long time till 2020 and I suspect somebody will emerge from the pack and overtake both her and Bernie
Click to expand...
I hope this comes true. Gillum or Beto for me please.
 
Florida Man said:
I hope this comes true. Gillum or Beto for me please.
Click to expand...

That will be a fantastic ticket in 10 years.

Gillum looks very focused on Florida and I believe he will prove a good Governor.

Bernie will run in 2020 and it is difficult to see anyone else resonating across board.

But the Democratic party has moved pretty left in as far as their voters are concerned. So any other candidate will have to support Bernie's policies at least.
 
Red Dreams said:
How exactly did the Republicans pay for their tax cuts?
Do you really understand the cost of Health care now? Obviously not. Read up on how single payer works. There are numerous sites.
College Tuition and other socialist agendas can be paid by reallocation of resources. For one. raising taxes on the top strata.
Eliminating interest costs is a bare minimum.

Before we even address the "million" votes, lets address her stealing the nomination process with the aid of the party machinery.
Do you think people will just forgive and forget? That is why Social Democrats and Progressives hate her guts.

Her votes in the Southern states are meaningless. She was never going to win those states in the GE. Bernie would have won a lot of the Rust Belt States. She will never win them.
heck she even lost MI,WI and PA to the charlatan. Lets not even talk about OH.

Now to the present.

Bernie is no longer a fringe candidate. he has proven himself and he resonates with all voters.

Here is the kicker.
Even the money loving DNC does not want a rotten/damaged candidate called Hillary. That is why they got Brazzile to spill the beans on her "tactics".
Biden is clearing his throat as a back up plan to prevent her. I do not believe he wants to run. Just to prevent her.

Finally here is the core reason why she should not run.

She has Nothing to offer. She never did.

The first time she pushed the experience angle. Experience in what? Pouring tea as a first lady.
btw she is pretty stupid for an attorney. She went for the big states when delegates were awarded on a proportional basis.
Obama went for every state even small states she was not contesting.

Guess what he simply accumulated a lot more delegates. The Super Delegates were not going to vote against a Black candidate were they, no matter what.
Oh also...she pushed the Obama was a Muslim talk...Remember her leaking him in a Muslim garb? And her saying. Sure if he says so. he is a Christian.
You think people forget?

Finally 2016.
Every election is a change election.

But 'stupid' offered Nothing...except hanging on to Obama's coat tails.

Oh She attacked Trump.

Wow that was so effective.

Even if it is not Bernie, there are many other worthwhile candidates who do have something to offer to the American people....err other than "I want to be president"because she feels entitled.
Click to expand...
I get that you dislike her immensely and love Bernie. But you don’t seem to be able to grasp that some people do not share your view, and there’s no need to get all wound up about it

As a non-American, the US foreign policy affects me much more directly than your domestic policy. Is it so wrong to ‘support’ someone whose foreign policy I agree with?
Raoul said:
It does matter because news outlets routinely included superdelegates into the delegate counts which created the perceptual illusion that Hillary was ahead by much more than she actually was, and gave those considering voting for Sanders a "why bother, she will win whether I vote for Bernie or not" effect, thereby suppressing his numbers. A dirty, corrupt trick.
Click to expand...
The same thing happened in 2008, guess what, Obama won anyway.
 
Cal? said:
I get that you dislike her immensely and love Bernie. But you don’t seem to be able to grasp that some people do not share your view, and there’s no need to get all wound up about it

As a non-American, the US foreign policy affects me much more directly than your domestic policy. Is it so wrong to ‘support’ someone whose foreign policy I agree with?

The same thing happened in 2008, guess what, Obama won anyway.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make it right, which has been validated by the fact that they have gotten rid of superdelegates.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.