2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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The Prescription cost max is $200.00 as Bernie has said.

Not $2000.00

This means nothing since it won't ever happen. Sanders does not have Senate and will very likely lose House, even if he himself somehow magically gets elected, so he won't be able to actually pass new healthcare bill or anything for that matter. All his "revolution" does is stab in the back democrats' chance for winning this election. None of his socialist ideas will ever materialize. He's Corbin redux, in its pure form.
 
You're all gonna come up with carefully calculated paths and then Trump's gonna somehow win Delaware with Sanders winning Alabama.
 
Pennsylvania and Michigan have 36 votes, right? Remove 36 from Trump's 304 and he reaches only 268, which gives the victory to Dems.

* I might be wrong
Trump had two "faithless electors" last time. In calculations like this, those should be counted as Trump's this time so that would leave him with 270, just enough to win.
 
This means nothing since it won't ever happen. Sanders does not have Senate and will very likely lose House, even if he himself somehow magically gets elected, so he won't be able to actually pass new healthcare bill or anything for that matter. All his "revolution" does is stab in the back democrats' chance for winning this election. None of his socialist ideas will ever materialize. He's Corbin redux, in its pure form.
This idea that the other, more moderate Democratic candidates are more electable than Sanders has taken a huge battering in recent weeks but apparently some people still cling to it.
 
This idea that the other, more moderate Democratic candidates are more electable than Sanders has taken a huge battering in recent weeks but apparently some people still cling to it.
You need to understand the difference between Democratic primary in 3 initial states and the general election.

There is no way in hell that Sanders is winning PA or MI in the general election and in reality he won't win the states that Hillary won either (e.g. VA). If Sanders is nominated, he will shit his pants in the general election, just like Corbin did in Britain. Which is why Trump and Internet trolls keep promoting him. He's GOP's wet dream for the general election and anybody who doesn't see it is doomed to repeat Britain's mistake.
 
You need to understand the difference between Democratic primary in 3 initial states and the general election.

There is no way in hell that Sanders is winning PA or MI in the general election and in reality he won't win the states that Hillary won either (e.g. VA). If Sanders is nominated, he will shit his pants in the general election, just like Corbin did in Britain. Which is why Trump and Internet trolls keep promoting him. He's GOP's wet dream for the general election and anybody who doesn't see it is doomed to repeat Britain's mistake.
1) It's always amusing when someone is so certain of the outcome of a race that most analysts consider too close to call.

2) Who are the candidates who, in your clearly expert opinion, can win these states? Bear in mind they need to be able to actually excite and energise the Democrat voters.
 
I have yet to see official numbers that show that. In fact, even in the last debate, Bernie was attacked from not releasing the numbers (as was Tina Turner asked), right?

The closest I got was that Bernie calculator (posted a few days back here) which shows that my taxes (and health insurance) would go up considerably for me (close to five-digit difference) which would suck on the personal level, but it is the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things. So, I am not buying this oh it is gonna be both cheaper and better. Nope, it is gonna be more expensive, the taxes will be up, but it is the right thing to do which is all that matters.

In any case, at the moment it is an academic discussion, chances for his plan to be implemented are 0, though hopefully parts of it get implemented and essentially we get a better Obamacare.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)33019-3/fulltext#
 
there's no secret formula to the general, no point endlessly discussing florida ot texas or whatever, the obvious path is through wisconsin, michigan, and penn, and that's it. his h2h polling in NC looks good but i doubt it'll work out.
 
I’d be surprised if Sanders wins FL in a gen election. Far too many groups who tend to swing conservative to moderate in the state at the moment.

Was down there for SB weekend... Can confirm. I was seeing a lot of Trump stickers in Ft Lauderdale... And it gets worse the further away you go north/west :annoyed:

If the appeal court ruling stands you'd hope all the ex-cons would roll with the party who's trying to give them voting rights but who knows.
 
there's no secret formula to the general, no point endlessly discussing florida ot texas or whatever, the obvious path is through wisconsin, michigan, and penn, and that's it. his h2h polling in NC looks good but i doubt it'll work out.

Yeah maybe the Democratic presidential candidate will make a stop in those states this time.

(Shade thrown)
 
You need to understand the difference between Democratic primary in 3 initial states and the general election.

There is no way in hell that Sanders is winning PA or MI in the general election and in reality he won't win the states that Hillary won either (e.g. VA). If Sanders is nominated, he will shit his pants in the general election, just like Corbin did in Britain. Which is why Trump and Internet trolls keep promoting him. He's GOP's wet dream for the general election and anybody who doesn't see it is doomed to repeat Britain's mistake.
I've thought about this and you might be right, however America doesn't have an issue like Brexit and Sanders is more on issues. He's more charismatic than Corbyn also. I don't know if he'll be able to win but I think he stands a better chance than Corbyn did.
 
Yes. At this stage of Republican primaries (in 2016) Trump was polling 8-10 points higher than Sanders is polling now. So, he was more popular with the Republicans then, than Sanders is with Democrats now. So, unless Sanders will reach the same popularity as Trump, he won't be able to threaten Democrat incumbents who vote against him.

It doesn't matter which candidate we like, facts are facts.
Context is also important for the facts to make sense. At this point in 2016 Republican primary, there were four remaining candidates with really only Trump and Ted Cruz having any viability. And in that race Trump was the only candidate in his lane (lets say anti-establishment lane) and others were purely establishment.
This Democratic primary there is a gradient of candidates with Bernie at one end all the way to Bloomberg at the other end. This itself distributes the votes. And there are still at least 5 major candidates remaining, again diluting the votes.
btw it seems Bernie is at 29% in RCP polling averages now.
 
This means nothing since it won't ever happen. Sanders does not have Senate and will very likely lose House, even if he himself somehow magically gets elected, so he won't be able to actually pass new healthcare bill or anything for that matter. All his "revolution" does is stab in the back democrats' chance for winning this election. None of his socialist ideas will ever materialize. He's Corbin redux, in its pure form.
I know, why even try? Just let everything be as it is, right?
 
You are right but I am also right as that wouldn't give the Dems enough votes to win either (think it would be 269 to 268). If this scenario happens the tiebreaker vote goes to Congress:

"If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, the Presidential election leaves the Electoral College process and moves to Congress.

The House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most electoral votes. Each State delegation has one vote and it is up to the individual States to determine how to vote. (Since the District of Columbia is not a State, it has no State delegation in the House and cannot vote). A candidate must receive at least 26 votes (a majority of the States) to be elected.

The Senate elects the Vice President from the 2 Vice Presidential candidates with the most electoral votes. Each Senator casts one vote for Vice President. (Since the District of Columbia is has no Senators and is not represented in the vote). A candidate must receive at least 51 votes (a majority of Senators) to be elected.

If the House of Representatives fails to elect a President by Inauguration Day, the Vice-President Elect serves as acting President until the deadlock is resolved in the House."
Didn't this happen in Veep?
 
This means nothing since it won't ever happen. Sanders does not have Senate and will very likely lose House, even if he himself somehow magically gets elected, so he won't be able to actually pass new healthcare bill or anything for that matter. All his "revolution" does is stab in the back democrats' chance for winning this election. None of his socialist ideas will ever materialize. He's Corbin redux, in its pure form.

I don't think he would lose the house, but even if he were to retain the house and win the Senate back by a seat or two, it would still make it very difficult to get any of the policies he is selling through Congress. The Dems are going to need a near supermajority in both houses to get something like M4A or Green New Deal, passed into law.
 
Was down there for SB weekend... Can confirm. I was seeing a lot of Trump stickers in Ft Lauderdale... And it gets worse the further away you go north/west :annoyed:

If the appeal court ruling stands you'd hope all the ex-cons would roll with the party who's trying to give them voting rights but who knows.


Florida is a polyp that needs excising.
 
I don't think he would lose the house, but even if he were to retain the house and win the Senate back by a seat or two, it would still make it very difficult to get any of the policies he is selling through Congress. The Dems are going to need a near supermajority in both houses to get something like M4A or Green New Deal, passed into law.
Not if you get rid of the legislative filibuster.
 
I don't think he would lose the house, but even if he were to retain the house and win the Senate back by a seat or two, it would still make it very difficult to get any of the policies he is selling through Congress. The Dems are going to need a near supermajority in both houses to get something like M4A or Green New Deal, passed into law.

I think he will be much closer to Trump than Obama in how he will lead. He won’t be worrying about bipartisanship for a start, he will executive order the crap out of things to make sure his campaign pledges are enacted. Obviously Healthcare goes beyond that and needs Congressional funding but I can see him using his power to make things very uncomfortable for pharma companies to a point where they will be open to negotiating with Congress.
 
You still need all Dems to support the policy, which currently doesn't exist. I believe only something like 15 Dem senators support M4A. Long way to go.
Yes, whipping them into line is a tough job in itself, but speaking purely from procedures you only need a majority to pass it.

Ultimately, what’s likely to happen is a public option. AOC has openly stated that and emphasize on the need to shift the Overton window.

Looking back, Obama dropped major balls in 2008. Revoking the 1929 Reapportionment Act for instance would give the Dems a natural +20 seats advantage in the House, which give a lot of cushion in off year elections.
 
I don't think he would lose the house, but even if he were to retain the house and win the Senate back by a seat or two, it would still make it very difficult to get any of the policies he is selling through Congress. The Dems are going to need a near supermajority in both houses to get something like M4A or Green New Deal, passed into law.
i don't think even the biggest of "Bernie bros" expects Bernie to pass everything he's running on even with a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate if they have even an iota of understanding of US politics. The biggest thing for Bernie and this movement is to start from a much higher point to start negotiations and compromise from. The win for Bernie would also give credence to the progressive movement which has been stomped on for decades now esp. with questions of viability and electability. This should provide a further push for more progressive candidates all around the country for all seats.
 
I know, why even try? Just let everything be as it is, right?
No. Every Democratic candidate has a plan to improve healthcare. It's just that they are more electable and their plans are more realistic. But masses love demagogues, especially when demagogue's voice is amplified by huge farms of foreign internet trolls trying to divide and radicalize United States.
 
James Carville

Longtime Democratic strategist James Carville warned that nominating Bernie Sanders to face President Donald Trump in the general election would be political suicide in an appearance on MSNBC Saturday.

Carville expressed fear on MSNBC that the media is not appraising voters of the risks of nominating Sanders, of whom he has been harshly critical.

“The entire theory that by expanding the electorate, increasing turnouts, you can win elections, is the equivalent of climate denying. When people say that, they are as stupid to a political scientist as a climate denier is to an atmospheric scientist,” he said.

Carville continued that he understood Sanders supporters who backed the Vermont Independent because of his platform.

But, he said, “If you’re voting for him because you think he’ll win the election, because he’ll galvanize heretofore sleepy parts of an electorate, then politically, you’re a fool.”

“And that’s just a fact,” Carville continued. “It’s no denying it, there’s so much political science, so much research on this that it’s not even a debatable question. And if people are appraised of this, and they know that, and they want to do it as Democrats, that’s their own business. But I don’t think they have all the facts that they need before they make this judgment going forward.”

“You’re describing a lot what sounds like political suicide?” MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace said.

“It is,” Carville said.

Wallace proceeded to describe a Sanders win in MSNBC as “hitting the bottom.”



Charles Payne Blames Dow Plunge on Bernie Sanders Winning Nevada

Fox Business host Charles Payne attributed a plunge in the stock market on Monday to Sen. Bernie Sanders‘ (I-VT) current momentum in the presidential campaign.
 
I don't think he would lose the house, but even if he were to retain the house and win the Senate back by a seat or two, it would still make it very difficult to get any of the policies he is selling through Congress. The Dems are going to need a near supermajority in both houses to get something like M4A or Green New Deal, passed into law.
Exactly. Not to mention that some of the things he advocates for - he won't get support even from Democrats in the House or Senate for.
 
No. Every Democratic candidate has a plan to improve healthcare. It's just that they are more electable and their plans are more realistic. But masses love demagogues, especially when demagogue's voice is amplified by huge farms of foreign internet trolls trying to divide and radicalize United States.
Considering how the caucuses and primaries so far + polls, that is a lie. Biden is tanking. Buttigieg is being found out and has no non white support. Warren is trending downward and changing with the wind and this being found out. Bloomberg is a Republican who will prevent any chance of turnout and guarantee a Trump victory. The fact you even refer to Bernie as a demagogue is laughable and shows you eat up the mainstream media narrative.
 
It would also help if Tampa/SP weren't so conservative.
When’s the last time you been to St Pete? They’re the polar opposite of conservative. Now if you’re talking the whole Pinellas County, then yes they are conservative overall. But that’s due to all the olds who live outside of SP. Tampa is also solid blue and Hillsborough went to Gillum — the progressive.
 
No. Every Democratic candidate has a plan to improve healthcare. It's just that they are more electable and their plans are more realistic. But masses love demagogues, especially when demagogue's voice is amplified by huge farms of foreign internet trolls trying to divide and radicalize United States.
:lol: yeah, sure.
 
Here's the argument for M4All:

Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.

In a nutshell, it's likely to cost less and would save 68,000 lives.

What's the argument against it? We like our current plan? WTF?
 
I think he will be much closer to Trump than Obama in how he will lead. He won’t be worrying about bipartisanship for a start, he will executive order the crap out of things to make sure his campaign pledges are enacted. Obviously Healthcare goes beyond that and needs Congressional funding but I can see him using his power to make things very uncomfortable for pharma companies to a point where they will be open to negotiating with Congress.
That's a good thing though right?
 
That's a good thing though right?

I think so, the President is supposed to serve his people after all and Sanders will use the full extent of his powers altruistically. It’s a bit different to Trump using it allow Oil Companies to poison water supplies for profit and ICE to separate mothers from babies.
 
Considering how the caucuses and primaries so far + polls, that is a lie. Biden is tanking. Buttigieg is being found out and has no non white support. Warren is trending downward and changing with the wind and this being found out. Bloomberg is a Republican who will prevent any chance of turnout and guarantee a Trump victory. The fact you even refer to Bernie as a demagogue is laughable and shows you eat up the mainstream media narrative.
Not to mention the beautiful contradiction: how the feck are the others more electable if the MASSES love the "demagogue"?
 
Considering how the caucuses and primaries so far + polls, that is a lie. Biden is tanking. Buttigieg is being found out and has no non white support. Warren is trending downward and changing with the wind and this being found out. Bloomberg is a Republican who will prevent any chance of turnout and guarantee a Trump victory. The fact you even refer to Bernie as a demagogue is laughable and shows you eat up the mainstream media narrative.
Hello, Bernie Bro.

Is this "mainstream media" moniker straight from GOP arsenal, or did y'all come up with it on your own? Not at all shocking how leftist demagogues are such split copies of rightist demagogues - discredit and curse on all sources that don't conform to their version of "reality".
 
Hello, Bernie Bro.

Is this "mainstream media" moniker straight from GOP arsenal, or did y'all come up with it on your own? Not at all shocking how leftist demagogues are such split copies of rightist demagogues - discredit and curse on all sources that don't conform to their version of "reality".

..said the man of the centre, discrediting and cursing all to the right and left of him.
 
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