At the end of the day he needs lower turnout and some degree of suppression to win, which is precisely what the "I'll never vote for a socialist" and "I'll never vote for a corporatist" crowds are gifting him.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
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At the end of the day he needs lower turnout and some degree of suppression to win, which is precisely what the "I'll never vote for a socialist" and "I'll never vote for a corporatist" crowds are gifting him.
I think the number of voters that will refuse to vote the Dem candidate if their person doesn't get it is a small fraction who happen to be loud on social media.
Bit loaded framing. If we are going to use loaded frames I prefer:
Dems that care about ordinary people vs. Dems that only care about not having their well-to-do European friends make fun of them when they are jet setting.
Dems that care about actual racial injustice vs. Dems that think Fredo for Italians is the equivalent of the N-word for black people
Dems that care about actual change vs. Dems that only care about winning just like Trump
I don't know any Dems who refer to themselves as corporatists or moderates. They simply consider themselves to be Democrats. Progressives on the other hand are pretty open about their label.
I hope you're right.
That is not an accurate statement.
A representative either represents the people or does not.
Do you believe Biden or Harris represents the people?
I know tons refer to themselves as moderates but its true no corporatist ever admits that they put corporations before ordinary people because obviously that would hurt them at the elections so they simply use their double-speak and lies.
It's fairly obvious Biden gives two shits about ordinary people no matter what his speechwriters put in his speeches when he goes out of his way to promise rich people he won't do anything they don't like and he holds events with Comcast execs and McConnell donors.
indeed
It depends how you define represent the people. If they run and are elected on a particular platform that they market then during their campaigns, then you can can say they are representing the will of the people who elected them. If you're a cynic who thinks all politicians are corrupt because they aren't people funded then you would obviously disagree with the first definition.
I'm not a cynic. I simply look at facts.
Nothing the DNC has done in recent decades proves it is working for ordinary people.
Platform? What platform does Biden have that benefits ordinary people? All he has stressed is we need to get rid of Trump. But he wants to work with the very people who are enabling him to commit crimes.
I wasn't making a case for Biden - just pointing out that people from different backgrounds will see this issue through a completely different prism.
The point is The DNC has long ago stopped representing ordinary Americans. People do not see their life getting better. In fact it has been getting worse. Why the Dems Lost the Rust belt To a racists. These people voted Democrat before.
Low voter turnout is nothing new. people don't show up because nothing changes.
Sounds like a good case for voting third party!
In the end people vote for a candidate who represents them.
Those who voted or will vote for Trump believe he represents them. They are not voting for the Republican party.
So its not the party is it?
EDIT: If it is not Bernie or Warren, I will write in Bernie.
Thinking about some of these discussion.
Many people do not know that there are resources available to them.
People who represent them that are looking to help.
I certainly do not think everyone is corrupt. I know people in the State Legislature who want to help.
What I try and do is on a case to case basis bring issues individuals face where they feel they have reached a dead end to a representative who can help them.
Lack of information is the main problem.
Many people do not know that there are resources available to them.
People who represent them that are looking to help.
I certainly do not think everyone is corrupt. I know people in the State Legislature who want to help.
What I try and do is on a case to case basis bring issues individuals face where they feel they have reached a dead end to a representative who can help them.
Lack of information is the main problem.
Most states won’t allow presidential write ins unless they’ve requested to be placed on the ballot ahead of time.
Bernie didn’t do that in 2016, btw.
tbh I don't know what Minnesota allows.
But it is aways away.
2016 was a difficult decision for me. In the end I could not bring myself to vote for someone who did not have a conscience.
It will be easier this time round. I hope it does not come to that.
But the principal I live by is I must do what is right.
Compromise is one thing.
Watching your soul drip away is another.
Minnesota is one of the states that requires prior filing to be a write in.
I do not believe Bernie will act as a spoiler.
I meant I had not considered writing in a candidate before. I voted Stein the last time.
But if it comes to it, I will write in Bernie if I have to rather than not show up. There are good candidates in the State Legislature I will be happy to vote for for example.
If he doesn't gain any traction and it looks like Warren is competing better with Biden then I think Bernie will bow out at some point. Not that we are anywhere remotely there yet.
I think you are right. The way both Warren and Bernie behaved the last time together clearly suggested there was some mutual agreement.
Early days. But I believe Warren will bow out too if she does not gain traction.
Both of them may be trying to enlarge the Progressive base.
They did meet before all this started.
It's going to be a strange election
I mean we have a president who will openly use an ill relative to score political points
I'm not sure what the tactic is going to be against this type of stuff... But I hope It's a better plan that calling people deplorables
I am not sure Trump will even go to the TV debates I'm sure he will dismiss the networks as fake news outlets ... Possibly a live debate on breitbart with questions he vetted befirehand?
He's already started with #kag2020 (keep America great) so presumably he will start selling millions of hats along with the money from his rallies and no doubt some big corporate sponsorship I would expect a huge spend on negative adds... All that with him tweeting away and attacking "crazy" Bernie or "creapy" Joe or "Pocahontas" (not sure he has a name for Kamala yet though no doubt he would find one) and of course starting trade or actual wars to distract when needed
And even if somehow he does loose and it's close I don't rule out him talking about illegals voting and it being a Clinton / Obama plot to steal the election and him telling his voters to surround counting centres with ar15's until he has arranged for all votes to be counted by hand
I'm just not sure I see any democrat ready or capable of taking him on... As a minimum I hope they have new strategists and are prepared for it to be a dirty fight
That's damning. Treating him like a liability
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Not voting for Hillary (that you clearly don't like) is something, but voting for a total moron like Jill Stein is just another level.
What is the point of writing in Bernie if he’s not on the ticket? I know thatI’ve mentioned this before but I honestly cannot see the logic.
So Trump gets elected and Bernie fans can carry on saying their guy was cheated again
I could be wrong but the guy voted or at least wanted to seriously vote for Leave as a protest vote in Brexit.
What guy?I could be wrong but the guy voted or at least wanted to seriously vote for Leave as a protest vote in Brexit.
That's already his #1 strategy and has been for 5 years. Its a populist era and people are sick of the establishment. The number 1 populist driver and motivator for the right is anti-immigration. It the easiest way to tap into the age old political ploy of demonizing the other. Immigration is the one issue the entire Republican party has an advantage over the Democrats on as that issue turns out the votes for their base and doesn't help Dem turnout. The only way for the Democrats to adequately counter an anti-immigration populist message is with the other left populist issues that have massive popularity among the progressive base that doesn't already vote every election and the undecideds that have no consistent party allegiance. Tap into left wing populist issues that will turn out the vote as Obama did in 2008 - the only year the Democrats actually pushed a progressive message and soundly won. That means the populist issues like single payer health that the corporate Dems are vehemently opposed to supporting hence the rift in the Democrat party.
Republicans understand how to use polls to learn the information to turn out their base.
Democats keep making the mistake of thinking arbitrary data processing formulas of "likely voters" are so spot on, all they have to do is poll chase instead of understanding how to craft a moral values frame that actually turns out the voters.
IF Democrats lose 2020 they have no one to blame but themselves and their own broken way of strategizing that has been apparent to people like linguist Lakoff and working class filmmaker Michael Moore for 20 years.
So far I see nothing in the DNC strategy that makes me think they have learned the lessons of 2004, 2008 and 2016. I'm going to place a bet on Trump winning if its Biden
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why is she a moron?
Not voting for Hillary (that you clearly don't like) is something, but voting for a total moron like Jill Stein is just another level.
Not voting for Hillary (that you clearly don't like) is something, but voting for a total moron like Jill Stein is just another level.
If the Democrats want to win they really need to put a muzzle on people like yourself that have no understanding of marketing and PR - like all the Clinton alumni on twitter.
I still don't get why corporate Dems think "let's insult and make fun of people until they vote how I want" is an intelligent tactic.
People like him are the perfect fodder for the Democratic Party as it is.
They cannot see what is in front of them.
On one side we have people.
On the other side there is ..Evil. Those who live off the blood and death of people.
The choice is simple. But we are supposed to vote for Evil because there is a bigger evil lurking.
These people have no depth to them.
The only way out of the vicious cycle is not to accept their choice.
btw I believe Bernie's real goal this and the last cycle was to bring greater awareness to Progressive ideas. I believe he has succeeded.
I still think he has a good chance at being president.
We are aways away.
Have you ever heard her speak, or read some of the things she has said? You can also check John Oliver's episode on third parties for some of the ridiculous things she has said and done.
I admit that some of her policies are good (on some aspects similar to Warren's and Bernie's). But unlike Warren who has a plan on how to do those policies, or Bernie who has at least an idea on how to achieve them, Stein has no fecking clue about anything. You can have the best intentions ever, but if you don't know how to realize some of those ideas, then it is worthless. She is a very ignorant idealist and a wannabe conspiracy theorist.
I don't get how people take the moral high-ground by voting for a clearly incapable person like Jill Stein.
The only one taking the moral high ground here is you by insulting and making fun of people. Which is fine and all for you personally on Redcafe but when the Dems have been doing it for the last 20 years (starting with Nader in 2000) they really don't get how they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
And also still can't grasp how their adherence to the 1-dimensional political line metaphor harms their thinking more than their realize.
Absolutely. Bernie has been the best thing to happen to the Democrats in 40 years. Hopefully the corporate establishment doesn't kill the momentum.
Last cycle I voted Green Party. I could have voted the Communist Party or another.
This time IF it is neither Bernie or Warren I will simply write in Bernie's name whether they allow it or not. Basically it will be a non vote.
As to your question, I have answered above.
When I asked my wife to watch the Rogan interview , my wife watched it through and said something that shook me a bit.
"I hope they don't kill him"
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that it could've been critical to keeping a state like MN blue if it came down to the sort of situation that occured in WI, MI, in 2016. If there's one lesson that came out of FL in 2000 its that each vote matters and not participating can have deadly ripple effects on policy (the Iraq War happening vs not happening for instance).
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Raoul.
We have had these discussions before.
I am not one of those people who only comes on here to express political opinions.
I do participate in the process locally. I try and help people become aware of how local County and State government can help them. Their participation can change the direction of decisions being made at local level. This is more important than the Federal level because we all live in our own State.
I attend Town halls whenever I can. Also meet with local State legislators whenever possible. Certainly communicate with them.
And they do listen.
The entire discussion here is about the direction of this country taken by bowing down to corporate greed.
Accepting their false choices.
That's all.
If we stayed dumb and just not vote, that can be interpreted in many ways. But if we participate we are making an impact.
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