2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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:lol:

The obvious solution is to vote for Jill Stein or write in Harambe to get Trump re-elected and ensure the screwing over of immigrants while crying about Nancy Pelosi and Chuch Schumer. Wait, let me get you 5 free sandwiches a month from my cushy corporate job at McDonald's.
 
fishfingers15 said:
:lol:

The obvious solution is to vote for Jill Stein or write in Harambe to get Trump re-elected and ensure the screwing over of immigrants while crying about Nancy Pelosi and Chuch Schumer. Wait, let me get you 5 free sandwiches a month from my cushy corporate job at McDonald's.
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See your posts just illustrate how disconnected you are from the lives of working class people and why people like myself will never vote for HRC/Biden types.

I wish the biggest problems in the lives of my immigrant and minority friends and family were minor things like visa issues instead of things like jail, bankruptcy and danger of, and lack of proper health care caused by the neoliberal Clinton/Biden policies :rolleyes:
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
See your posts just illustrate how disconnected you are from the lives of working class people and why people like myself will never vote for HRC/Biden types.

I wish the biggest problems in the lives of my immigrant and minority friends and family were minor things like visa issues instead of things like jail, bankruptcy and danger of, and lack of proper health care caused by the neoliberal Clinton/Biden policies :rolleyes:
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Yes, but you are making all their lives worse by voting for Trump / writing in a vote if the opponent is Clinton or Biden. That's a fact.
 
The Key to Defeating Donald Trump in 2020 Can be Found in These THREE STATES!

 
NM said:
Yes, but you are making all their lives worse by voting for Trump / writing in a vote if the opponent is Clinton or Biden. That's a fact.
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That's an opinion not a fact. Trump + AOC is ultimately better than a HRC with no AOC Presidency because the only chance for America is if the Democrats are a party that represents the people not corporate elite interests. At least with Trump there is an opposition. An HRC or Biden working across the isle with Mitch McConnell sets America back a generation rather than just a Presidency of 4 years.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
That's an opinion not a fact. Trump + AOC is ultimately better than a HRC with no AOC Presidency because the only chance for America is if the Democrats are a party that represents the people not corporate elite interests. At least with Trump there is an opposition. An HRC or Biden working across the isle with Mitch McConnell sets America back a generation rather than just a Presidency of 4 years.
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Too complex a thought process for fishmonger.

You need to dumb it down.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
That's an opinion not a fact. Trump + AOC is ultimately better than a HRC with no AOC Presidency because the only chance for America is if the Democrats are a party that represents the people not corporate elite interests. At least with Trump there is an opposition. An HRC or Biden working across the isle with Mitch McConnell sets America back a generation rather than just a Presidency of 4 years.
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AOC isn't running for President this year. You guys are living in pipe dreams. Fight the battle today, or it will be 100 times worse for good candidates in the future. I'm sure you love that most states are going to be gerrymandered to hell and that candidates like the AOC you love won't even be able to win. That's because of Trump's nominees. Congratulations!
 
NM said:
AOC isn't running for President this year. You guys are living in pipe dreams. Fight the battle today, or it will be 100 times worse for good candidates in the future. I'm sure you love that most states are going to be gerrymandered to hell and that candidates like the AOC you love won't even be able to win. That's because of Trump's nominees. Congratulations!
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The trouble with centrists is they cannot look past their own noses.

if you do not challenge the establishment, you perpetuate the serious problems we have.
Try and digest that.
 
NM said:
AOC isn't running for President this year. You guys are living in pipe dreams. Fight the battle today, or it will be 100 times worse for good candidates in the future. I'm sure you love that most states are going to be gerrymandered to hell and that candidates like the AOC you love won't even be able to win. That's because of Trump's nominees. Congratulations!
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Try thinking about it this way.

You have a belief (that the most important thing is defeating Trump). You have a group of people you want to convince of this belief (progressives) and adopt an action you believe is optimal (voting for Dem candidate no matter who). Now, think about what tactics can best achieve your goal.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who want to get people to take a certain action seem to think the way to get people to take that action is by condescending or talking down to them. I don't think some of you realize how your tone and the way you present your case is literally working against your desired goal.

I might be in a unique position 2020 where i might be living in somewhere like Ohio for a year. I'd have the option of keeping my vote in California where the Dem is going to win by 4.5 million no matter what and I can write in whomever I want or switching my registration to swing state like Ohio and potentially voting for the Dem nominee no matter who it is.

Do you really think the tone that you use here (the same that Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, HRC use) is really going to convince people in my position that we should just vote how others want us to because we are getting insulted?

If you really care about winning the election in 2020 please take the time to watch this:

https://www.uctv.tv/shows/George-Lakoff-on-Moral-Politics-How-Liberals-and-Conservatives-Think-11194
 
Red Dreams said:
The trouble with centrists is they cannot look past their own noses.

if you do not challenge the establishment, you perpetuate the serious problems we have.
Try and digest that.
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The establishment does not fold in one day. It happens over many years, piece by piece. Standing in the corner and saying I'm going to take the establishment down while doing nothing to weaken it is counterproductive.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Try thinking about it this way.

You have a belief (that the most important thing is defeating Trump). You have a group of people you want to convince of this belief (progressives) and adopt an action you believe is optimal (voting for Dem candidate no matter who). Now, think about what tactics can best achieve your goal.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who want to get people to take a certain action seem to think the way to get people to take that action is by condescending or talking down to them. I don't think some of you realize how your tone and the way you present your case is literally working against your desired goal.

I might be in a unique position 2020 where i might be living in somewhere like Ohio for a year. I'd have the option of keeping my vote in California where the Dem is going to win by 4.5 million no matter what and I can write in whomever I want or switching my registration to swing state like Ohio and potentially voting for the Dem nominee no matter who it is.

Do you really think the tone that you use here (the same that Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, HRC use) is really going to convince people in my position that we should just vote how others want us to because we are getting insulted?

If you really care about winning the election in 2020 please take the time to watch this:

https://www.uctv.tv/shows/George-Lakoff-on-Moral-Politics-How-Liberals-and-Conservatives-Think-11194
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I talk down to folks who I think vote against their best interests. Trump has 0 impact on me personally, as I'm probably leaving the US in the next 5 years. You are free to vote however you want. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just calling out what I see as stupidity.

Boohoo I got talked down to, I'm not going to vote for X even though if Y wins my life is probably worse :lol:
 
NM said:
I talk down to folks who I think vote against their best interests. Trump has 0 impact on me personally, as I'm probably leaving the US in the next 5 years. You are free to vote however you want. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just calling out what I see as stupidity.

Boohoo I got talked down to, I'm not going to vote for X even though if Y wins my life is probably worse :lol:
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Then I'll continue to point the flaws of your own stupidity ;)
 
NM said:
I talk down to folks who I think vote against their best interests. Trump has 0 impact on me personally, as I'm probably leaving the US in the next 5 years. You are free to vote however you want. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just calling out what I see as stupidity.

Boohoo I got talked down to, I'm not going to vote for X even though if Y wins my life is probably worse :lol:
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The problem with idealists is they are so convinced in their own mental world that nothing penetrates their warped version of reality. They are as bad as Trumpites.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
The problem with idealists is they are so convinced in their own mental world that nothing penetrates their warped version of reality. They are as bad as Trumpites.
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You are the biggest idealist on here by that definition. You believe helping Wall Street is good for the world :lol:

Tell the truth Pillow. Do you even read the posts on here or do you just skim them?
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
That's an opinion not a fact. Trump + AOC is ultimately better than a HRC with no AOC Presidency because the only chance for America is if the Democrats are a party that represents the people not corporate elite interests. At least with Trump there is an opposition. An HRC or Biden working across the isle with Mitch McConnell sets America back a generation rather than just a Presidency of 4 years.
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There are time bombs built into a second term of Donald that affect the judiciary and environment which are far more certain to set America back a generation than a corporate Dem in the White House.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
There are time bombs built into a second term of Donald that affect the judiciary and environment which are far more certain to set America back a generation than a corporate Dem in the White House.
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The thing is 2020 the Dems will still control the House and have a chance at evening the Senate. I'd trust a Dem house and Senate to stop Trump on most issues, like climate change, far more than I trust corporate Dems working across the isle with McConnell types.

The judiciary is the only valid argument I've heard but for me its enough by itself to get me to vote for this iteration of a Biden that scares the living shit out of me what he would do with his Comcast donors and stating a desire to work across the isle already in the primary.

Unless the Democrats can become a party of the people again and not a corporate party then America is going to be seriously fecked within the next 25 years - the income inequality trends are simply unsustainable and Biden/HRC types just perpetuate those structural problems.
 
NM said:
The establishment does not fold in one day. It happens over many years, piece by piece. Standing in the corner and saying I'm going to take the establishment down while doing nothing to weaken it is counterproductive.
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What will be result of voting for an establishment candidate?

Answer: it ensures the establishment and its policies remain.
 
What is the result of voting Trump?

Immigrants die, Climate change laws are rolled back, schools are run by Betsy fecking Devos and Ivanka Trump is running in 2024. But hey, I've slayed the real enemy though, the Corporate democrats
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
The thing is 2020 the Dems will still control the House and have a chance at evening the Senate. I'd trust a Dem house and Senate to stop Trump on most issues, like climate change, far more than I trust corporate Dems working across the isle with McConnell types.

The judiciary is the only valid argument I've heard but for me its enough by itself to get me to vote for this iteration of a Biden that scares the living shit out of me what he would do with his Comcast donors and stating a desire to work across the isle already in the primary.

Unless the Democrats can become a party of the people again and not a corporate party then America is going to be seriously fecked within the next 25 years.
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A candidate like Biden will dampen enthusiasm. Even AOC mentioned this.
We cannot take Congress for granted.
Bernie or Warren with real policies will turn out voters for those policies instead of just being anti-Trump.

We saw how well that worked last cycle.
 
There’s a strange logic in some of these posts that I can’t follow. They seem to indicate this could happen. Is this what folk are saying would be the best outcome for the US?

10 voters set out to vote, 4 GOP voters and 6 Dems voters. The 4 GOP voters mark Trump on their voting papers and put them in the box. The 4 Dems voters who are unhappy with their candidate (say they all wanted a different one) spoil their papers and put them in the box. The other 2 Dem voters ticked the box for the Dem candidate. When they are tallied up the totals read Trump 4, Dems 2, spoiled votes 4.
Although Dem President looked certain to win they actually lost.

Result: Trump President for another 4 years.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
There are time bombs built into a second term of Donald that affect the judiciary and environment which are far more certain to set America back a generation than a corporate Dem in the White House.
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That is a fair point.

Do you believe Biden will nominate judges who are truly progressive?
His policy roll out on Climate Change is lip service.
It makes no serious efforts to address pressing issues in that area.
 
Red Defence said:
There’s a strange logic in some of these posts that I can’t follow. They seem to indicate this could happen. Is this what folk are saying would be the best outcome for the US?

10 voters set out to vote, 4 GOP voters and 6 Dems voters. The 4 GOP voters mark Trump on their voting papers and put them in the box. The 4 Dems voters who are unhappy with their candidate (say they all wanted a different one) spoil their papers and put them in the box. The other 2 Dem voters ticked the box for the Dem candidate. When they are tallied up the totals read Trump 4, Dems 2, spoiled votes 4.
Although Dem President looked certain to win they actually lost.

Result: Trump President for another 4 years.
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Pretty much this. The "idealists" seem to think this is ok. They will end up in such a big shithole that by the time their "savior" is elected, it will be too much of a mess. The "savior" won't be able to clean it up, and the next Trump will get elected. I question the human race's intelligence a lot recently..
 
fishfingers15 said:
What is the result of voting Trump?

Immigrants die, Climate change laws are rolled back, schools are run by Betsy fecking Devos and Ivanka Trump is running in 2024. But hey, I've slayed the real enemy though, the Corporate democrats
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Minorities die, minorities are jailed for years for non-violent offenses, welfare is cut, old ladies died while Enron executive chant burn baby burn, trillions wasted on lies to send military into Iraq, people lose their homes while Wall Street gets bailed out, people die and go bankrupt due to 30 years of inefficient health care but hey I blindly vote blue so this is as good as the world can posssible get.
 
Red Defence said:
There’s a strange logic in some of these posts that I can’t follow. They seem to indicate this could happen. Is this what folk are saying would be the best outcome for the US?

10 voters set out to vote, 4 GOP voters and 6 Dems voters. The 4 GOP voters mark Trump on their voting papers and put them in the box. The 4 Dems voters who are unhappy with their candidate (say they all wanted a different one) spoil their papers and put them in the box. The other 2 Dem voters ticked the box for the Dem candidate. When they are tallied up the totals read Trump 4, Dems 2, spoiled votes 4.
Although Dem President looked certain to win they actually lost.

Result: Trump President for another 4 years.
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You are seeing two different parties.
They wear 2 different shirts. But they are in reality both owned by corporations.

The Corporate Democrats will not admit it. But they see a Bernie presidency as a greater threat than Trump.
 
Red Dreams said:
That argument is so simplistic it is an insult to intelligence.
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Its more important to insult the idealists than come with a strategy that actually works!

The irony is I am being pragmatic trying to explain how centrists could actually communicate better to achieve the goals they want yet they keep doubling down on some odd "I'll insult the idealists if I want" angle.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Minorities die, minorities are jailed for years for non-violent offenses, welfare is cut, old ladies died while Enron executive chant burn baby burn, trillions wasted on lies to send military into Iraq, people lose their homes while Wall Street gets bailed out, people die and go bankrupt due to 30 years of inefficient health care but hey I blindly vote blue so this is as good as the world can posssible get.
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Sure, let's protest vote and get Trump elected.
 
Red Dreams said:
You are seeing two different parties.
They wear 2 different shirts. But they are in reality both owned by corporations.

The Corporate Democrats will not admit it. But they see a Bernie presidency as a greater threat than Trump.
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The fact that that they are owned by corporations is not something you are going to change overnight. That is the way the US political system works. It has to be done slowly.
 
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