2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

Status
Not open for further replies.
Man of Leisure said:
What’s up with the Beto hate on here? Just watched the HBO doc and thought he came across as really decent. Is it because he’s not as left as the Caf would like?
Click to expand...

He’s a very conservative Democrat. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why most aren’t enamoured by him. Wafty on universal healthcare, he supported a bill that included funding for the border wall. He’s starting to confirm his position on certain issues but it’s off the back of other candidates leading the conversation and establishing public support on the issues.

He comes across as someone who wants to be president rather than someone who wants to be president to make people’s lives better.
 
Pexbo said:
He’s a very conservative Democrat. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why most aren’t enamoured by him. Wafty on universal healthcare, he supported a bill that included funding for the border wall. He’s starting to confirm his position on certain issues but it’s off the back of other candidates leading the conversation and establishing public support on the issues.

He comes across as someone who wants to be president rather than someone who wants to be president to make people’s lives better.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Didn’t know too much about him until watching the documentary, but that didn’t delve too deep into specifics. Certainly comes across as being very likeable though.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Fair enough. Didn’t know too much about him until watching the documentary, but that didn’t delve too deep into specifics. Certainly comes across as being very likeable though.
Click to expand...

That’s the problem right there, American’s keep looking for people who are likeable instead of people who actually want to improve their lives.
 
The whole world is suffering from the Americans' decision to elect Trump president. And it looks like they're set to do it again.

From reneging on the Paris Agreement and Iran deal to threatening global economic growth with indiscriminate sanctions, the American reversal in policy has been far too apparent. Sadly, the only policy matter which the Americans have doubled down on is their relationship with and support of Saudi Arabia.

Not that Americans ever understood or cared about global affairs, but this Trump guy is really fecking shit up.
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
The whole world is suffering from the Americans' decision to elect Trump president. And it looks like they're set to do it again.

From reneging on the Paris Agreement and Iran deal to threatening global economic growth with indiscriminate sanctions, the American reversal in policy has been far too apparent. Sadly, the only policy matter which the Americans have doubled down on is their relationship with and support of Saudi Arabia.

Not that Americans ever understood or cared about global affairs, but this Trump guy is really fecking shit up.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.
 
Pexbo said:
He’s a very conservative Democrat. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why most aren’t enamoured by him. Wafty on universal healthcare, he supported a bill that included funding for the border wall. He’s starting to confirm his position on certain issues but it’s off the back of other candidates leading the conversation and establishing public support on the issues.

He comes across as someone who wants to be president rather than someone who wants to be president to make people’s lives better.
Click to expand...
Beto has his faults but choosing the border wall as a bone of contention is quite an odd choice as someone who has said he’d tear down the wall in El Paso, one of the most notorious border crossings in the US.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Beto has his faults but choosing the border wall as a bone of contention is quite an odd choice as someone who has said he’d tear down the wall in El Paso, one of the most notorious border crossings in the US.
Click to expand...

So is it best to judge him on his words or actions?
 
Tad worrying.



I'm still of the view that only Bernie can be Trump(Really think Biden won't get the youth vote at all).
 
Sweet Square said:
Tad worrying.



I'm still of the view that only Bernie can be Trump(Really think Biden won't get the youth vote at all).
Click to expand...


nothing new, this has been the pattern for a while. (not these numbers - the trend, and the fact that Warren downwards they are equal or trailing)
 
Saying Trump is bad, which is all Biden is saying...and offering nothing is a losing strategy.
They still have not learned from 2016.

Bernie can speak directly to the needs of everyone. And Health Care is top of the list.
This is where Warren is left wanting.

Medicare for All is not negotiable.
 
Red Dreams said:
Saying Trump is bad, which is all Biden is saying...and offering nothing is a losing strategy.
They still have not learned from 2016.

Bernie can speak directly to the needs of everyone. And Health Care is top of the list.
This is where Warren is left wanting.

Medicare for All is not negotiable.
Click to expand...

Of course. It's either Bernie or bust and when it's bust, we'll all beg Muller to do our job by firing him.
 
Red Dreams said:
Saying Trump is bad, which is all Biden is saying...and offering nothing is a losing strategy.
They still have not learned from 2016.

Bernie can speak directly to the needs of everyone. And Health Care is top of the list.
This is where Warren is left wanting.

Medicare for All is not negotiable.
Click to expand...

It apparently is since the guy currently leading the pack isn’t for it. Universal healthcare on the other hand, is not negotiable to most Dems so Biden is going to have whip up something better than simply promoting a return to the ACA.
 
Raoul said:
It apparently is since the guy currently leading the pack isn’t for it. Universal healthcare on the other hand, is not negotiable to most Dems so Biden is going to have whip up something better than simply promoting a return to the ACA.
Click to expand...

Most of us who are for Medicare for All see it as just another name for Universal Health care. What is the difference to you?

I agree Biden wont go far with a return to ACA. But how credible will he be? He has already botched two major roll outs.
 
Red Dreams said:
Most of us who are for Medicare for All see it as just another name for Universal Health care. What is the difference to you?

I agree Biden wont go far with a return to ACA. But how credible will he be? He has already botched two major roll outs.
Click to expand...
Medicare for All more or less removes the need for insurance companies at all whereas universal healthcare lets people keep their private insurance. However, anyone who really wants to keep private insurance when Medicare can cover literally everything needs a lobotomy.
 
Red Dreams said:
Most of us who are for Medicare for All see it as just another name for Universal Health care. What is the difference to you?

I agree Biden wont go far with a return to ACA. But how credible will he be? He has already botched two major roll outs.
Click to expand...

Not "universal healthcare" either though. Obamacare (and Hilary's proposal back in 93) tried to be "universal" by forcing people to buy privatized HMO insurance. That's vastly different from what the people actually want.

What people really want is a national single payer system that covers all catastrophic accidents and terminal illness, prevents medical bankruptcy and ensures every citizen has a basic level of health insurance. If we dig a little deeper what people really what is a nationalized PPO system - you pick your doctors, you and your doctors decide on treatment, insurance covers it. People want to keep their relationship with their doctor not their fecking profit seeking insurance administrators.

The problem is, as those articles @berbatrick linked that I can't find atm, the for-profit heathcare industry and big pharma is spending a lot of marketing money to confuse the population, spread lies and misinformation and produce biased moronic polls that obfuscate whats really going on.
 
Florida Man said:
Medicare for All more or less removes the need for insurance companies at all whereas universal healthcare lets people keep their private insurance. However, anyone who really wants to keep private insurance when Medicare can cover literally everything needs a lobotomy.
Click to expand...

Private health care is still fairly popular in the UK, especially as an employee benefit. You get quicker appointments, often more cutting edge or experimental treatments and generally a more premium service in terms of precare and aftercare.

I’d be interested to see how the American health care system caters for patients if there was a shift towards universal health care. I expect you’d see a lot of cost cutting very quickly. Personally I think it’s absolutely essential that healthcare is a basic human right but I think there is no harm in having a free-market health care system operating alongside it. The existence of a a free health service should provide healthy balance alongside it.
 
Florida Man said:
Medicare for All more or less removes the need for insurance companies at all whereas universal healthcare lets people keep their private insurance. However, anyone who really wants to keep private insurance when Medicare can cover literally everything needs a lobotomy.
Click to expand...

I don't think its that simple. Scandinavia, Japan, Australia, Canada all have private insurance and its not superfluous. Even in a single payer nationalized system there is absolutely a role for a small degree of private sector actors that are going to be necessary to make up the gaps. From what I have seen from both an economic and medical points of view, the best way to transition is to start from single payer insurance that covers all catastrophic accidents and terminal illness and then bargains for pharmaceuticals as a single payer system. That really should be the first step (that even libertarians like David Goldhill get behind) and then from there we should transition through the most serious medical outcomes.

That's the vast majority of the worst health outcomes and cause of bankruptcy (things like car accidents, cancer treatment, etc). The US health system is broken and it needs to be triaged IMO. the most efficient and product place to start is with those struggling with the worst outcome that instigate the bankruptcies and medical expenses.

If some rich hypochondriac wants to pay over the top for private insurance to cover his paranoia or get his 5th wife a boob job I have no problem with that, as long as all the serious medical and financial outcomes are covered by the single payer national system
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Not "universal healthcare" either though. Obamacare (and Hilary's proposal back in 93) tried to be "universal" by forcing people to buy privatized HMO insurance. That's vastly different from what the people actually want.

What people really want is a national single payer system that covers all catastrophic accidents and terminal illness, prevents medical bankruptcy and ensures every citizen has a basic level of health insurance. If we dig a little deeper what people really what is a nationalized PPO system - you pick your doctors, you and your doctors decide on treatment, insurance covers it. People want to keep their relationship with their doctor not their fecking profit seeking insurance administrators.

The problem is, as those articles @berbatrick linked that I can't find atm, the for-profit heathcare industry and big pharma is spending a lot of marketing money to confuse the population, spread lies and misinformation and produce biased moronic polls that obfuscate whats really going on.
Click to expand...

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/26/medicare-for-all-democrats-phrma/
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/20/medicare-for-all-healthcare-industry/
 
Private insurance should cover non-medical or experimental healthcare that Medicare wouldn't cover otherwise. It may have its benefits for better quality over there but in America, private insurance does not necessarily equal better service. As far as using it for experimental treatments here... :lol: As if! If they actually covered that, then I wouldn't have lost $20,000 + countless of dollars of opportunity costs (quitting job and all) to experimental healthcare. And I had the best private insurance on the market (Tricare).
 
Insurance companies here are the biggest factors in driving up healthcare costs too. Prices for care are pulled out of the ass and I'm not even kidding about it. $25 for a Tylenol pill all the way to a $1 million for a transplant. Ambulance ride for a hospital transfer that takes 10 minutes? Over $800. feck them all to death
 
Florida Man said:
Insurance companies here are the biggest factors in driving up healthcare costs too. Prices for care are pulled out of the ass and I'm not even kidding about it. $25 for a Tylenol pill all the way to a $1 million for a transplant. Ambulance ride for a hospital transfer that takes 10 minutes? Over $800. feck them all to death
Click to expand...

The real crazy thing is the difference in prices for the same treatments with no transparency from MRI and CT Scans to cosmetic dental work the prices can vary by factors of 2x-4x for no apparent reason and nothing is transparent in the pricing because the companies profit more the more confusing it is for the patients
 
Kentonio said:
That’s the problem right there, American’s keep looking for people who are likeable instead of people who actually want to improve their lives.
Click to expand...
Likability does matter in politics though. Don't think this view is somehow unique to or overemphasized by Americans either.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Not "universal healthcare" either though. Obamacare (and Hilary's proposal back in 93) tried to be "universal" by forcing people to buy privatized HMO insurance. That's vastly different from what the people actually want.

What people really want is a national single payer system that covers all catastrophic accidents and terminal illness, prevents medical bankruptcy and ensures every citizen has a basic level of health insurance. If we dig a little deeper what people really what is a nationalized PPO system - you pick your doctors, you and your doctors decide on treatment, insurance covers it. People want to keep their relationship with their doctor not their fecking profit seeking insurance administrators.

The problem is, as those articles @berbatrick linked that I can't find atm, the for-profit heathcare industry and big pharma is spending a lot of marketing money to confuse the population, spread lies and misinformation and produce biased moronic polls that obfuscate whats really going on.
Click to expand...

Cheers.

Single Payer would have been a better phrase to use.
If there is a role for private insurance it would for any cosmetic surgery or any non essential medicals.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Likability does matter in politics though. Don't think this view is somehow unique to or overemphasized by Americans either.
Click to expand...

It’s not unique to them, but it’s certainly overemphasized. As you’d expect in a country as marketing and celebrity obsessed as the US.
 
Cassidy said:
He answered to be honest. He is in favour of non violent offenders having the right to vote.
Click to expand...

He sort of, kinda, in a way, got there. But the guy was trying to nail him down on a position, and Booker was doing what he could not do allow it. I certainly didn't come away from that with a clear idea of what his actual position is on the topic of voter rights for incarcerated citizens.
 
nimic said:
He sort of, kinda, in a way, got there. But the guy was trying to nail him down on a position, and Booker was doing what he could not do allow it. I certainly didn't come away from that with a clear idea of what his actual position is on the topic of voter rights for incarcerated citizens.
Click to expand...

Thats the issue these days with politics we all know it isnt that simple, but we try to nail people to a simple position.

At the same time he is busy trying to push his own agenda too
 
Cassidy said:
Thats the issue these days with politics we all know it isnt that simple, but we try to nail people to a simple position.

At the same time he is busy trying to push his own agenda too
Click to expand...

He was obviously attempting to hedge.
 
Raoul said:
He was obviously attempting to hedge.
Click to expand...

I think he didn't want to stick to a position that obviously be politicised. So yes but he said his position which was pretty clear to be honest.

Non violent offenders should be able to vote. More importantly shouldnt be locked up in the first place
 
Cassidy said:
I think he didn't want to stick to a position that obviously be politicised.
Click to expand...
I mean he is running for president of the united states.

Cassidy said:
but he said his position which was pretty clear to be honest.

Non violent offenders should be able to vote. More importantly shouldnt be locked up in the first place
Click to expand...
So someone who committed millions in fraud should have more voting rights than someone who punched and robbed a store clerk ?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.