Sanders embarrassed about becoming a millionaire whilst Jacob Rees-Mogg made millions from prospect of Brexit.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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More Clinton voters votes for McCain in 08 than Sanders voters voted for Trump in 2016.
However I agree that conservatives are better at sticking to the party line.
But how many just stayed home? And I say that as someone who desperately wanted Sanders. I'm not a fan of Clinton, but she's better than Trump.
Both of those describe the establishment Democrats.
To say progressives are "intoxicated by hubris" sounds completely disconnected from the reality of 80% of Americans. That sounds like the type of bubble thinking from people making over 130K a year with full benefits surrounded by the top 20% of well-to-do establishment types. When you talk about "privilege their interest" when talking about progressives you mean the fecking interests of the bottom 90%.
So yeah let's keep voting for politicians that don't ever do things to help us and are just going to keep the broken system in place that displaced the wealth of the bottom 80% directly into the 1%. Yeah Raoul people fed up with that sure are "intoxicated by hubris" rather than the people that want to keep feeding us shit and telling us to like it or else. What an asinine statement to make.
What you keep failing to recognize is that its the establishment corporate Democrats that would prefer Trump over Bernie in far greater volume than progressives that are the major problem.
47% of Dem voters identify as moderate or conservative and 51% identify as “liberal” (Gallup 2019), which can range anywhere from Obama to Sanders. So until the non liberal number plummets down somewhere into the 20s range, you still have a bifurcated party that is split between two camps, which will continue to be a direct pathway for the GOP to exploit enroute to winning the electoral college. Also 53% of Dem voters want the party to be more moderate, compared to 40% who want it to go more liberal (Pew 2019), so collectively, we can at a minimum glean the desire to go further left is a bit of a perceptual illusion that is being fanned by social media narratives, when the numbers seem to indicate otherwise.
This is the type of shallow poll humping that Bob Shrum and Clinton types love to do but constantly loses them elections.
Comments like this also disenfranchise progressive independents like myself that don't "identify as Dem voters" and all the 90 million that Did Not Vote who make up a majority. it also misunderstands what it even means because "self-identifying as moderate" means feck all in today's world. I know a lot of veterans that would call themselves moderate that support universal healthcare and hate people like Clinton and Biden so even that categorization is meaningless polling crap without conducting meaningful focus groups. To them becoming more liberal = more identity politics, gun control and Clinton whining not the policies Bernie represents.
In short Raoul, this type of basing your entire strategy and mindset around polling is why the Democrats lose. Blame yourself if Trump wins
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Branding counts. UBI means freeloaders and it won't sell. Freedom dividend is the language 'murica understands. Shut up and stop this UBI crap and sign on for freedom overload. I don't care if you grab your crotch or your pussy
@Eboue tbf McDonalds dominates at marketing unhealthy garbage to people so fishy might be onto something.
The numbers aren’t meant to disenfranchise you or anyone, they are instead a wake up call that perhaps the way things are going aren’t likely to result in the desired outcomes of both progressives and the Dem party at large.
The massive flaw of building a strategy around polling is candidates like Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Biden are seen as plastic phonies who stand for nothing and just take whatever opinion polling deems politically expedient. It also allows them to be tarred with the anti-identity politics in ways that never work on Bernie.
Since 1994 and the Frank Luntz led Republican messaging is based around a different strategy. Instead of constructing everything around polling as you suggest for the Dems, Luntz begins his strategy with focus groups discovering the messaging and framing that works and then framing their policies with language that activates positive frames that were already tested in dozens or hundreds of focus groups.
This is why Republicans kicked Democrats ass in Congress in the 90s, Bush beat Gore and Kerry despite the Dem campaigns insistence their polling methods were winning and the only Presidential the Dems won was with a stealth candidate who articulated a progressive vision that actually galvanized the apathetic and cynical progressive base.
As long as the Democrats keep doing what they always have and what you suggest they keep doing the same strategy as they did in 1994, 2000, 2004 and 2016 then they will keep losing and you have no one to blame but the poll humpers who still haven't learnt the Luntz-Lakoff lesson of political messaging from the last 25 years.
What the Democrats need to do is start conducting massive focus groups campaigns (not getting intoxicated with polling) find out how to frame progressive messages like universal healthcare in a successful way and articulate that vision. That is the winning strategy. Focus group around the country, figure out how to frame progressive messages in the most appeal way and articulate that vision.
If the Democrats were smart they would just hire fecking Frank Luntz since Trump's people hate Luntz and just let him do for them the same as he did for Gingrich and Bush. (Problem of course is the Wall Street Dems don't want that, they'd prefer Trump to Bernie).
California poll.
Relevant for Bernie -
Another poll with very good Hispanic numbers
Sharp income divide (nothing above 100k)
The usual age divide (though this is 18-49, not 18-35, so it doesn't appear so sharp.)
Usual overperformance among Dem-leaning independents, worse among actual Dems.
College graduates are his worst constituency.
Other stuff-
Harris/Biden have a sharp polling ideological divide (big lead among "very liberal" for Harris, who hate Biden; Bernie is mostly flat across ideology). In the next question: "which candidate do you think has the best policy ideas": Bernie leads among all ideological categories, with the only competition coming from Warren. Biden and Harris are nowhere.
No gender divide
Nobody thinks Biden's touching is a serious issue.
https://poll.qu.edu/california/release-detail?ReleaseID=2615
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Problem of course is the Wall Street Dems don't want that, they'd prefer Trump to Bernie.
Winning.
Win what??
Other than Bernie and Warren, no one else represents the American people.
I will happily caucus for Bernie in the freezing cold in Feb next year.
If he nor Warren is the nominee, I'm out.
Winning.
Win what??
Other than Bernie and Warren, no one else represents the American people.
I will happily caucus for Bernie in the freezing cold in Feb next year.
If he nor Warren is the nominee, I'm out.
I see, a lot of dems are planning to throw their toys out of the pram again.
As suspected
Misleading and dishonest headline.
A full 1/4 of Democrats and almost 1/3 of Hispanics say its a serious issue. Those are not the numbers I think when I see a loaded term like "unfazed". It should be >2% thinks its a serious issue to use that type of language.
Also its a poor constructed question that only has two answers. If I was polled I would also have said its not a "serious issue". Healthcare is a serious issue, Biden supporting the racist Clinton crime bill is a serious issue. But not being a serious issues does not equal being meaningless and having no impact. Someone can obviously think its not a "serious issue" but still have it affect their perception of Biden.
A well constructed question would have left room for a range of answers such as: "How much do the 7 allegations about Biden's inappropriate behavior affect your perception of Biden?"
- A lot
- Some
- A little
- Not at all
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Sadly this will be the case.
How does Biden or Harris make the country better? Nothing will change. Pointless.
Not sure about Biden, but with Harris at the very minimum, women can feel like they're truly represented in high levels of government. Dems sure love those identity politics.
This is likely the case for everyone who will get elected. For instance, if Sanders is elected the likelihood that medicare for all will be implemented is extremely small since the Congress wouldn't be amenable, in fact it likely wont happen even if the Dems retake Congress since they can't even agree on what the appropriate health care policy is in the present. The Presidency is little more than a way for one party to ensure the other doesn't make any gains during a four year period. There are a few smaller things that do happen via executive order but in terms of systemic change it will take a Dem president and supermajorities in both houses of Congress.
Yeah I've always wondered how that was going to be kick-started if Sanders wins. Got me thinking if there was something a president could do to force this that I wasn't aware of?
They might get elected instead of a Trump. That’s not an insignificant matter in and of itself.
He has levers. He can veto laws and in some ways extort Congress - see what Trump was trying to do with the shutdown.
What I presume people are hoping for, is Bernie to energize the down ballot races . Also, him winning may lead to more candidates like him in the following midterms, and eventually bringing the whole democratic party to the left.
But yeah, his election will not lead to overnight domestic improvements. Foreign policy is what the WH has direct control over.
Not really, as the POTUS’s outsized level of power in its modern incarnation is weighted towards international matters. Congress still hold the purse strings domestically, unless those boundaries are cheated by fake national emergencies (that are ostensibly created by foreigners at the border).
You've really got to hand it to both american political parties, their able to construct a political voting base on nothing but empty cultural signifiers.
Why have healthcare when instead you can have the white guy who stood next to Obama. Why have a minimum wage when you can have the man from the television.
Why have healthcare when instead you can have the white guy who stood next to Obama. Why have a minimum wage when you can have the man from the television.
Should Bernie be elected he will bring along many to Congress that will want to retain his goodwill.
So it is the voters that will drive what gets done.
A president and Congress in Democratic hands can implement many things.
1.Stack the SC with 4 more Progressive judges that can over rule gerrymandered districts, strengthen voting rights and stop Corporate agendas.
2.Eliminate the filibuster and implement Universal health Care, increase Social Security, implement Free College Tuition and other progressive agendas.
So it is the voters that will drive what gets done.
A president and Congress in Democratic hands can implement many things.
1.Stack the SC with 4 more Progressive judges that can over rule gerrymandered districts, strengthen voting rights and stop Corporate agendas.
2.Eliminate the filibuster and implement Universal health Care, increase Social Security, implement Free College Tuition and other progressive agendas.
I suspect the Dem platform will be Medicare for America instead of Medicare for all.
It should be Red Dreamer..
Little chance any of that will happen. The senate map also favors the Republicans in the next election cycle. Don't expect a democratic majority in the senate in 2020.
Also, in house it was the centrists who won it for the Dems not the progressives. The AOC love in from liberal media and hate from Fox has people believe that it was some major progressive victory in 2018. It was not.
You are wrong about the Senate. It was highly favourable for the Trump party last year and all they did was win in Supper Red States. Look at the map again.
Next year the Dems will be in power without any problem.
Congress for the Dems came in with hate for Trump. Its a combination of Progressives and others who just want honesty and decency back.
Its not Pelosi pulling the strings.
You mean not covering illegals?
Not that unexpected.
I actually would be ok with that. Because it leads into the entire hiring of illegal immigrants to do jobs Americans do not want to.
Work permits that includes some health care coverage should be legislation that needs to be looked at.
That way we can separate asylum seekers from illegal migrants.
Medicare for all who want it with the option to opt out and remain on employer based plans.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...8/18192674/medicare-for-all-cost-jacob-hacker
https://delauro.house.gov/sites/delauro.house.gov/files/Medicare_for_America_Summary.pdf
Neither of these are correct. The senate heavily favored the GOP in 2018, it wont on 2020.
And its nonsense that centrists won the Dems the House.
Anecdotal perhaps.
But I know of people who traditionally vote Republican that cannot say Trump's name without wanting to spit it out.
There is no way these people are voting for Trump and his arselickers next year.
But I know of people who traditionally vote Republican that cannot say Trump's name without wanting to spit it out.
There is no way these people are voting for Trump and his arselickers next year.
You're fooling yourself here, IMO. Trump has damn near universal approval from the Republican base.
his base is the old Reagan Democrats who have morphed into downright racists. The others who support him are the soul less libertarians.
Just think. It was impossible for progressives alone to have over rode highly gerrymandered districts to sweep Democrats into power in the House.
this guy is the biggest joke of them all- Status