Shocking news
2018 US Elections
- Thread starter Red Dreams
- Start date
I still fail to see how there were grown up people who identify themselves as left/progressive/Democrat and were totally indifferent on past elections if Trump or Hillary won, with some of them actually going for Trump.
There is the time of protest, and there is the time to grown up. A lot of Bernie Bros' forgot to grown up. Same for Green Party.
There is the time of protest, and there is the time to grown up. A lot of Bernie Bros' forgot to grown up. Same for Green Party.
Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism
https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx
https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx
I’d like to meet the 16% of Republicans who view Socialism positively.
Yep. I could understand a protest vote, even support it if it was a number of Republicans like Rubio, Kasich, Romney running. But Donald fecking trump should've been a big red flag. What's more galling to me is that people still think he had or has the support of half the country. Not even remotely true. His support is about 25% and everyone of them came out in 16, even the one that said on tv that Obama just sat at his desk in the White House while they flew planes in to the trade center. Half the electorate stayed at home, around 7 million more who voted for Obama in 08 and 12 thought a reality tv guy who has a fecking cloud of shit around him would bring that plant back from China and Sanders supporters stomped their feet because millions of dems decided the preferred the dem candidate in the dem primary.
After all of that he won the electoral college on the back of 70,000 votes through 3 or 4 swing states. Hillary utterly failed this country and its people during her campaign, there is no denying that, but a trump administration had chaos and failure written all over it. It was an easy decision in my eyes.
His approval among his hard base is 85% because as you well know, low information people tend to double down more and more despite evidence to the contrary. Trump is a pathological liar and hopefully Mueller has the goods. After that it's fingers crossed that every Dem running in 20 has a plan to relay simple facts and have a clear plan for the future of all of us. Leave nothing to chance and run a campaign in ALL states that will give trump an almighty drubbing and put an end to this sorry chapter.
for the millionth time, green party voters are not left wing democrats. they never would have voted for democrats. it shows a complete misunderstanding of them to scold them for not voting democrat.
I am not saying to vote for a Democrat cause of love of Democratic party. I am saying to vote against Trump, a racist who everyone knew was going to get US immediately out of Paris agreement (while Hillary was planning to go aggressively in favor of green energy), a pathologic liar who was going to feck the country for a couple of decades with right wing supreme justices. And so on.
Thing is, it never was Democrat vs Republican vs Green. In most cases, where not that much is at stake, Green (and extreme left wing) can stay at home or go third party cause the difference between a center left like Hillary or a center right like Romney or Bush is hardly that big, so what's the point, better to sleep or to give a protest vote. But this time it was fecking Trump, a lunatic even for lunatic standards.
So, I would say we got their point. They should now enjoy Trump.
hillary aggressively in favor of green energy. come ontrump has still killed less people than bush has. the difference between trump and normal republican presidents isnt that big. they are all monsters, hes just less subtle
They're not a statitc, homogenous voting block either. Like Republicans and Dems, some Green Party voters may be hard core, some may be curious, and others may simply be left wing Dems crossing over because they don't like who the Dem nominee is. They are certainly a left wing party as you would be hard pressed to name many right of center people who are ardent Green Party connoisseurs.
She had on her platform to increase solar energy production by 700% and to produce enough energy from clean sources for all American houses within 10 years. Bullish and probably difficult but at least she was planning to do something.
trump has still killed less people than bush has. the difference between trump and normal republican presidents isnt that big. they are all monsters, hes just less subtle
Trump on the other hand was planning to leave Paris agreement, was a fan of fossil energy and of fracking. But yes, Hillary was the problem.
I guess enjoy Trump and global warming.
right but they arent the left wing of the democratic party. they are an entirely separate party with separate goals and platforms. republicans dont throw tantrums at libertarian voters when they lose, its only democrats who feel entitled to votes they couldnt secure with their candidates and their messaging
this is such a naive way of looking at things. if youve followed hillarys career in any meaningful way you would know she doesnt care about that in the least.
OK, candidate A promises to have as priority clean energy, candidate B promises to leave Paris agreement, and likes to produce more fossil energy.
Logic of some people: it does not matter if A or B wins cause A might be lying. So let's sleep or vote some idiot or vote Trump. And then complain when Trump does exactly what he promised.
I don't know about that either. Going by the list of Green Party ideals you posted a couple of pages back, there would seem to be considerable crossover between the Greens and social democratic / liberal Dems
ecological wisdom
social justice
grassroots democracy
nonviolence
decentralization
community based economics
feminism
respect for diversity
personal and global responsibility
future focus
Given the obvious idealogical overlap, it wouldn't be at all surprising to learn that a left wing Dem, disenchanted by the prospects of voting Hillary, would instead opt for Stein.
I'll grant them feminism and respect for diversity but i don't think the others apply. At most, Democrats give them lip service but actively undermine those causes regularly.
Logic of some people: let's nominate the worst candidate in the history of the country and then scold people for not voting for her. Then let's snipe from the sidelines at the people who are involved in teachers strikes and black lives matter and the fight for fifteen and direct opposition to nazism and organizing for tenants rights and against ice.
Those people are out there taking direct action to make the world better and you and your ilk will pay yourselves on the back for being reasonable until the earth cooks and hundreds of millions are dead and displaced in the name of capitalism and incrementalism.
wooooosh!
So they are like Democrat voters in California. There vote means feck all.
Do you think Jill Stein discussed green energy at the table with Putin?
trump has still killed less people than bush has. the difference between trump and normal republican presidents isnt that big. they are all monsters, hes just less subtle
But then your ilk by not voting to stop Trump, made possible for him to implement the policies which will make the earth cool and hundreds of millions of dead people in the name of capitalism. Congratulations!
I never get over people blaming voters. comedy.
Here is a novel idea.
How about putting forward honest candidates who want to serve the vast majority and not the corporations?
Here is a novel idea.
How about putting forward honest candidates who want to serve the vast majority and not the corporations?
Dont know or care
That's ideal but it isn't always going to happen. Plenty of Republicans disliked Trump initially but fell in line because they were aware that he aligned closely with them on a lot of issues and could implement their general agenda.
Clinton herself may be vapid as feck and believe in nothing politically, but with some pressure she could've been dragged to the left ever so slightly on certain key issues when it came to the environment etc, and she certainly wouldn't have left the Paris Agreement. Another key one is SCOTUS - if Trump gets in another one or two appointments then it will be overwhelmingly conservative for decades to come, thus impeding any future left-wing admins on a whole range of issues. Hilary's choices may not exactly have been particularly left-wing, but would've been better than right-wing lunatics who, say, believe in no gun control whatsoever or who believe environmental policy to be intrusive.
I get it, she was crap. But she was clearly the better choice, and only alternative to, Trump. And for all her faults the 'both parties are the same' narrative doesn't work at all for me. I'd argue it's better to have someone in power I agree with on 40% of issues as opposed to someone I agree with on nothing at all.
Its This acceptance of the lesser evil for decades that has brought us Trump.
Never blame the voters. I know people who voted for Obama who then voted Trump. Even young people.
pure frustration and anger.
The fault directly lies with the Democratic party that has for decade abandoned ordinary people.
I'd agree with that, and I'd argue that the Dems need to recognise what's changed and adapt as a result of that by adopting a more left-wing platform. But at the same time I'll maintain Hilary was by far the most sensible choice post-primaries last year.
Lesser of two evils did bring us Trump but largely because Republicans viewed him as a lesser of an evil than Hillary and more likely to get some of their agenda done with him in charge.
Typical blaming the voters instead of the corporate Democrats who lost 1000 seats under Obama. Republicans dont control 33 state governments because of green party voters.
Republicans have huge majorities in the house and the Senate and state legislators and they control the presidency and the supreme court due to the colossal failure of neoliberalism and capitalism. The Democrats killed acorn. Obama ran on card check and didnt even try to pass it. Clinton took money from the Saudis and wall street. Obama passed a pathetic healthcare bill that most people who have it cant afford to use despite a true mandate and a supermajority. He made a deal with the drug companies and they made him look like a fool. He thought he was so clever nominating Merrick Garland because Orrin hatch said some positive things about him a couple years ago.
These people are fecking losers and they always will be. Obama is Charlie brown and he spent 8 years watching mitch McConnell John Boehner pull the ball away without ever learning his lesson. His presidency is a failure. He cleared the field for a candidate with record unfavorables and decades of baggage and then watched her lose to a rapist.
This country is a hollowed out shell. The post industrial midwest is a wasteland. Flint, Gary, Youngstown, Milwaukee - Obama didn't do shit for any of these people. We tie katrina around bush and rightfully so but flint still doesnt have clean water and Obama is wakeboarding with Richard Branson. This country is in crisis and Obama is producing Netflix shows. Hes a coward. feck him and all the other corporate Democrats who sold out the middle of this country to billionaires and corporations.
Their role in american politics is to convince us that we cant do any better, that we have to live like this. That we have to accept tens of thousands in student loan debt and an opioid crisis. That we need to crush workers under the boots of tech companies. That there is no option but to send jobs overseas and give huge bonuses to bankers. That healthcare is too expensive and housing isnt a right. Democrats are the enemy of progress. They are the enemy of working people. They are enriching themselves with dnc jobs and think tank consultancies.
Dont you dare scold those of us who have been ground up for decades by both parties of complicity. Take it up with the democratic party and with Obama and Hillary.
For those of us who didnt vote her it's not 40%. Its maybe 10%. She would undoubtedly have started a war. She would have fought single payer at every turn. She would have done nothing for working people. I have no regrets about not voting for her. My conscience is clean.
The Socialist platform that was put forward by Sanders was pushed aside by the corrupt party machinery that had already selected Hillary, the Corporate choice.
Obviously many angry voters chose to stay away or simply vote 3rd party or even Trump.
The DNC realised how angry people were and got Donna Brazille to spill the beans on what happened. Because they knew the crone was planning to run again. Biden was the Blocker too.
That wont happen now.
But hey. Talk about slamming shut the barn doors after the horses had bolted.
everything that has happened now is primarily the DNC's fault.
Oh. btw those outraged Republicans shaking their heads about Trumps racism.
They blew those dog whistles so loud everyone heard them.
Blame the lazy blacks for Welfare. Hispanisc for job losses.
The horror we see now was created by both parties.
Trump is simply the result. Not the problem.
That's very true.
Trump was pure uncut heroin for the republican base and they rallied like feck around him.
There are way more non voters than Green party voters. If everyone participated, we wouldn't be having this Green party discussion.
If repubs didn't do their utmost to prevent poor people from voting, the Dems would be in power across the board.
The right consists of indoctrinated drones. The left consists of people bickering amongst themselves about who is the greatest intellectual and moralist.
The former is much more effective when it comes to election than the elitist and downright arrogant approach the left has.
Deplorables indeed.
The former is much more effective when it comes to election than the elitist and downright arrogant approach the left has.
Deplorables indeed.
Probably because the former is so quick/easily convinced to accept someone as a moralist and intellectual.
I don't disagree at all. But until they get thrown out of power, why would they stop? And how much of the nonvoting population were prevented from voting compared to the population who just flat out didn't vote?
For some yeah such as the racist wing but not the entire 45% of the country.
Just because you hate her, it doesn’t make Hillary ‘the worst candidate in the history of he country’. She got more votes than any candidate other than Obama ever got.
Population growth alone doesn’t explain the number of votes she received compared to Kerry