2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Says a lot about Hillary's base if it took Bernie to fire them up.
It does. Which makes it extra dumb for Bernie to do something that makes it happen, given it's his prime strength over her.

Plus I'm not really sure how he now supports her in the general, which goes against his previous statements of doing anything to stop Trump or Cruz.
 
As much as I prefer the idea of Bernie over Hillary, the scrutiny being put on him is very fair. He should be able to articulate and explain his proposals in depth, and their chances of working.

I still think the process on the Democratic side can be done, and a winner can emerge without too much bad blood. My money is on Hillary emerging as the victor, but she'll need every vote she can get from Berners and independents. Insulting their youth won't help in that objective. For all her faults, she's infinitely better than the alternative.
 
Is there any visible face in the Democratic party that can fill Sanders space for future elections or is that wonderful man a one-time opportunity?

No, there isn't, in my opinion. If he loses his supporters should focus on making this a movement (anti-establishment, voter reform, real change etc...) that isn't attached to one particular person, or indeed the democratic party.
 
I've just had a cheeky bet on Bernie to win the general at 10/1. His momentum is a lot stronger than anyone seems to be acknowledging in the press, so I reckon his price is a little too generous. Come on New Yorkers, you know it makes sense!
 
Why are you laughing? It's entirely true. I'm a democrat btw.

He died before he could do anything, and the Cuban Missile Crisis was something of his making. His advisers, civilian and military said that missiles on Cuba did not change the strategic outlook at the time. The US had something like 10x as many ICBMs at the time. Many times more strategic bombers at the time. Basically at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis the US was miles ahead in nuclear armaments and delivery systems.

His advisers told him that it wasn't really a big deal at all, and that they were roughly equivalent to the medium range nuclear missiles the US had stationed in Turkey and other nations on the doorstep of the USSR. The US had "Jupiter" class missiles in Turkey. The missiles in Cuba were taken as a political threat to him, and that is how he dealt with them. They were not deemed a military threat and he didn't really consider them as such in private. In public he stated they were essentially an imminent first strike threat.

An adviser of his recommended that through back channels the US could trade the Jupiter missiles in Turkey for the missiles in Cuba. Kennedy threw him under the bus, destroyed his career, and then went ahead and did exactly that. Kennedy also threatened Khrushchev that if the USSR made the deal public, Kennedy would back out of the deal and immediately reinstall the weapon systems on the Soviet border.

So, in short, Kennedy took the world to the brink of global annihilation, so he could look good. His civilian and military advisers did not consider the missiles on Cuba as representing an increase in the USSRs nuclear threat, nor a first strike weapon. He lied about what he was doing. He hid his deal with the USSR, and then he and his advisers invented a narrative that made the USSR look weak and made him look strong.

I guess laugh away. It must be fun not being educated :lol:

:lol:

hey..thats classic...you talking about not being educated.
 
It does. Which makes it extra dumb for Bernie to do something that makes it happen, given it's his prime strength over her.

Plus I'm not really sure how he now supports her in the general, which goes against his previous statements of doing anything to stop Trump or Cruz.

Meh, stuff gets said all the time during primaries, then brushed aside during the general. George Bush the First called Reaganomics, Voodoo-economics then went on to serve as his Vice President for 8 years. Attempts were made to use it against the ticket during the general, but really had no effect.

Hillary would have the same issue with some of what she has said about Bernie during the campaign should he get the ticket.

Polls show she already has a comfortable lead in NY, so this really is not going to change the outcome of the NY primary.
 
Bernie just had an epic meltdown, flat out going on a rant about how Clinton 'isn't qualified to be President'.

Now watch her win NY by 20 points.

This is the hilarious thing. Way to go Bernie :lol:

Both campaigns have said some really dumb things over the past few weeks, the sooner this is over with the better.


Hold on, let's be fair here. She said it first! And not just once, a few times recently she has said she doesn't think Bernie is qualified to be president, and she has even said she doesn't think he is a Democrat. So he was just responding to her.
 
Meh, stuff gets said all the time during primaries, then brushed aside during the general. George Bush the First called Reaganomics, Voodoo-economics then went on to serve as his Vice President for 8 years. Attempts were made to use it against the ticket during the general, but really had no effect.

Hillary would have the same issue with some of what she has said about Bernie during the campaign should he get the ticket.

Polls show she already has a comfortable lead in NY, so this really is not going to change the outcome of the NY primary.
Bernie's selling point is his honesty and authenticity though. Surely he's not going to revert to a generic, establishment politician for the sake of expediency when he loses?
Hold on, let's be fair here. She said it first! And not just once, a few times recently she has said she doesn't think Bernie is qualified to be president, and she has even said she doesn't think he is a Democrat. So he was just responding to her.
Did she actually say he's not qualified? I thought she'd just questioned his stuff about breaking up banks, fair enough if I'm wrong. I'm just not sure what he thought he'd get out of it, those who agree are already voting for him.
they have the hots for Hillary.

love makes you blind...
Ironic of you to talk about that. You were hard for Jim Webb not that long ago, a man who recently said Hillary was too far to the left. A cynic would say the only thing that motivates you is your hate for Clinton.
 
Ironic of you to talk about that. You were hard for Jim Webb not that long ago, a man who recently said Hillary was too far to the left. A cynic would say the only thing that motivates you is your hate for Clinton.

Firstly. You don't understand what hate is.

I was disappointed in what Webb said during the debates. I liked him cause he was direct. Thats it.

btw this is not about Bernie or Hillary. You do know that right?
 
Bernie's selling point is his honesty and authenticity though. Surely he's not going to revert to a generic, establishment politician for the sake of expediency when he loses?

.

He will give a carefully crafted speech backing her, then quietly go back to being a Senator and not having much to say about the general, just like most who don't win their parties nomination. Hillary will be expected to do the same should Bernie somehow manage to pull this out. Though being as famous as she is, she won't fade into the background as much.
 
Oh Peleeeeease.....

The first 3 were among the best Presidents this country has produced. I'm not going to defend them here....but that is desperate.

Hillary is not fit to sit in their chairs.

Billo..ah well...
Obama could have shown more fight, but he did bring us out of the recession.

As for your referring to the old Democratic party....come on..

must try harder.

EDIT:

I'm not a Democrat.
Not Carter
 
Why are you laughing? It's entirely true. I'm a democrat btw.

He died before he could do anything, and the Cuban Missile Crisis was something of his making. His advisers, civilian and military said that missiles on Cuba did not change the strategic outlook at the time. The US had something like 10x as many ICBMs at the time. Many times more strategic bombers at the time. Basically at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis the US was miles ahead in nuclear armaments and delivery systems.

His advisers told him that it wasn't really a big deal at all, and that they were roughly equivalent to the medium range nuclear missiles the US had stationed in Turkey and other nations on the doorstep of the USSR. The US had "Jupiter" class missiles in Turkey. The missiles in Cuba were taken as a political threat to him, and that is how he dealt with them. They were not deemed a military threat and he didn't really consider them as such in private. In public he stated they were essentially an imminent first strike threat.

An adviser of his recommended that through back channels the US could trade the Jupiter missiles in Turkey for the missiles in Cuba. Kennedy threw him under the bus, destroyed his career, and then went ahead and did exactly that. Kennedy also threatened Khrushchev that if the USSR made the deal public, Kennedy would back out of the deal and immediately reinstall the weapon systems on the Soviet border.

So, in short, Kennedy took the world to the brink of global annihilation, so he could look good. His civilian and military advisers did not consider the missiles on Cuba as representing an increase in the USSRs nuclear threat, nor a first strike weapon. He lied about what he was doing. He hid his deal with the USSR, and then he and his advisers invented a narrative that made the USSR look weak and made him look strong.

I guess laugh away. It must be fun not being educated :lol:

What's your source on that? I find it highly improbable that he would do that, all for the glorification of his massive ego.
 
Hold on, let's be fair here. She said it first! And not just once, a few times recently she has said she doesn't think Bernie is qualified to be president, and she has even said she doesn't think he is a Democrat. So he was just responding to her.

She didn't say it first, get your facts straight. Joe Scarborough goaded her into saying that, she didn't refuse flat out, but never specifically and explicitly say Sanders is unqualified.

You just can't spin this. This is the taboo of a presidential campaign. Goodbye big D Democrats, goodbye super delegates, goodbye congressmen and senators. Bernie is a pariah now.
 
Not Carter

Carter was honest with the American people. People at the time were not ready for what he said. Yes. He screwed up the hostage crisis and lost all his goodwill. I was pissed with him at the time too.

btw he was not just a peanut farmer. He was a B of Science grad who worked in a Nuclear sub. He was a brilliant man.

Now Reagan who came after him was a B grade actor and a worse president. Its because of him we have all this 'trickle down' bollox and deficit spending.
 


So she didn't say it. Huh.

And the earlier point that she said he's not a Democrat - he's been a Democrat for less than a year after decades as an independent. He had to be convinced to run as a Democrat by his campaign manager, who said he wouldn't have a hope otherwise. I also read that he's registered for re-election to the Senate in 2018 as an independent. So saying he's not a Democrat isn't so much a slight as an observation of his career.
 
Why are you laughing? It's entirely true. I'm a democrat btw.

He died before he could do anything, and the Cuban Missile Crisis was something of his making. His advisers, civilian and military said that missiles on Cuba did not change the strategic outlook at the time. The US had something like 10x as many ICBMs at the time. Many times more strategic bombers at the time. Basically at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis the US was miles ahead in nuclear armaments and delivery systems.

His advisers told him that it wasn't really a big deal at all, and that they were roughly equivalent to the medium range nuclear missiles the US had stationed in Turkey and other nations on the doorstep of the USSR. The US had "Jupiter" class missiles in Turkey. The missiles in Cuba were taken as a political threat to him, and that is how he dealt with them. They were not deemed a military threat and he didn't really consider them as such in private. In public he stated they were essentially an imminent first strike threat.

An adviser of his recommended that through back channels the US could trade the Jupiter missiles in Turkey for the missiles in Cuba. Kennedy threw him under the bus, destroyed his career, and then went ahead and did exactly that. Kennedy also threatened Khrushchev that if the USSR made the deal public, Kennedy would back out of the deal and immediately reinstall the weapon systems on the Soviet border.

So, in short, Kennedy took the world to the brink of global annihilation, so he could look good. His civilian and military advisers did not consider the missiles on Cuba as representing an increase in the USSRs nuclear threat, nor a first strike weapon. He lied about what he was doing. He hid his deal with the USSR, and then he and his advisers invented a narrative that made the USSR look weak and made him look strong.

I guess laugh away. It must be fun not being educated :lol:
So Trump and Kennedy went to the same school?
 
Carter was honest with the American people. People at the time were not ready for what he said. Yes. He screwed up the hostage crisis and lost all his goodwill. I was pissed with him at the time too.

btw he was not just a peanut farmer. He was a B of Science grad who worked in a Nuclear sub. He was a brilliant man.

Now Reagan who came after him was a B grade actor and a worse president. Its because of him we have all this 'trickle down' bollox and deficit spending.
He was honest and that was the problem with his party, the same thing would happen with Bernie.
 
She might not have said the exact words "he isn't qualified" but she might as well, and anyone with any sense can read between the lines and see what she was saying. She has been saying similar for months.

It's funny because the closer Bernie gets to winning the more the media and Hillary come out and will try anything to discredit him. They have acted as though he hasn't existed for months, even when he dominated the primaries in one night, he had far less coverage than anyone else. They have ignored him and not bothered with him, he's had no coverage in comparison and Hillary has almost treated him with contempt, especially how she was moving to the centre to appease Republican voters. Bernie is the fly in the ointment she couldn't get rid of. Now they are having to take him seriously and it's funny to see them all getting a little scared.
 
He was honest and that was the problem with his party, the same thing would happen with Bernie.

barros. Though I'm a leftie, I don't really have a problem with someone who is right wing. The key is the candidate needs to be honest. In 2000, I would have been happy with McCain before Bush derailed him. He made a big error with Palin in 2008. Though he is hawkish, I think he would have done good for us in 2000. We would not have gone into the hole like we did with Dubya.
Bernie would shake up the entire political spectrum. That is what we want.

People are not getting a fair shake.
 
She was saying he wouldn't be able to do what he's promised to do. She doesn't go anywhere near the question of being qualified for office. So saying that she did it first is completely untrue.
 
I was reading what they could charge Hillary with and reading what the law says then she did commit a crime.

"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and key aides are vulnerable to three felony charges and one misdemeanor count under the Espionage Act because of the unauthorized transfer of classified documents to her private email server, former national security and law enforcement officials tell The Daily Caller News Foundation."

"The most serious charges are felonies cited in Title 18 of the U.S. Code of the Espionage Act in sections 793, 798 and 1001. Experts contacted by TheDCNF say these could serve as the foundation for any criminal prosecution of Clinton or her aides."

"Section 793 applies to anyone who has been “entrusted” with information relating to the national defense. The law applies to a federal official who “through gross negligence permits” information “to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, to be lost, stolen, abstracted or destroyed.”

Section 798 applies to any government official who “knowingly and willfully communicates” information “to an unauthorized person.” Section 1001 addresses giving “false statements.” "



The section 793 would be enough to get her in trouble, now I understand why the government is getting involved and trying to curb FBI.
I have a feeling Bernie would be the Democratic nomination.
 
@barros

you are right. This is why Bernie is fighting all the way to the convention. This is not cooked up GOP stuff. There is a high probability something will come of this. Her IT guy did not take the 5th for no reason.

He has been granted Federal immunity. They don't do this for no reason.
 
barros. Though I'm a leftie, I don't really have a problem with someone who is right wing. The key is the candidate needs to be honest. In 2000, I would have been happy with McCain before Bush derailed him. He made a big error with Palin in 2008. Though he is hawkish, I think he would have done good for us in 2000. We would not have gone into the hole like we did with Dubya.
Bernie would shake up the entire political spectrum. That is what we want.

People are not getting a fair shake.
I wish a president could be a honest person but both parties are controlled by financial interests who decide who's the candidate for any party, right now Bernie, Big Mouth aren't in their plans, lyin' Ted just a bit, the GOP would be able to control him even if he wants to convert everybody on this country and Canada to Christianity.
 
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If a President can't be honest with the people then it's the system that needs to change, clearly..
 
JFK.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real-cuban-missile-crisis/309190/

The man who nearly started a nuclear apocalypse based on ego.

JFK is remembered as a great president, mainly because he was handsome, had a great speech about space, and then got shot.

Just finished reading the article, hadn't seen it before. Great piece, thanks for sharing. US foreign policy, Cold War strategy more so, is one of the most interesting and complex topics there is imo. Its like poker, but no rules and infinitely higher stakes. That people would disagree is natural, what bothers me though are people that treat it as simple and easily manageable.
 
I wish a president could be a honest person but both parties are controlled by financial interests who decide who's the candidate for any party, right now Bernie, big mouth aren't in their plans, lyin' Ted just a bit, the GOP would be able to control him even if he wants to convert everybody on this country and Canada to Christianity.

I know where you are coming from.
 
I wish a president could be a honest person but both parties are controlled by financial interests who decide who's the candidate for any party, right now Bernie, Big Mouth aren't in their plans, lyin' Ted just a bit, the GOP would be able to control him even if he wants to convert everybody on this country and Canada to Christianity.

Lyin' Ted wants to convert Canadians to Christianity?
Good luck with that :)
 
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