İlkay Gündoğan

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Trizy said:
For people saying we'd lack physicality in midfield just remember one of the greatest midfield 3 of all time consisted of Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets.
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That Barcelona team was a freak of nature though. When it comes to keeping possession no one could get close.
 
Red Shorts said:
Question is:



Could those three do it on a cold tuesday night in Stoke?
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It's Wednesday they struggle with, should be fine on a Tuesday.

As for Gundogan, we should absolutely sign him if he's available. Yes he's had a bad injury but he's worth the gamble IMO. I reckon worst case scenario he will be a good squad member. Him, Carrick and Ander in midfield would be :drool:
 
NL Max said:
Depends a bit on his formation. He has played 433 with the point forward and backward. If it's backward (like we currently use) the 6 is important for the buildup and the passing range will be very important.

If the point is forward the 10 is more important, and the 6 will have less of an influence. Overall it's an important part though, and it surely will be one of his criteria.

OT: I'm not sure if Gundogan is a player we need right now. Van Gaal said he bought Blind for midfield, if we already buy a replacement for Carrick, while he's still here, what would that mean for Blind? He's defensively aware, reads the game well and has a great pass in him. He's done well in his first season, he looks like the replacement for Carrick to me.

I think we could better look for a backup for Herrera who could play 6 if both Carrick and Blind are out, while still maintaining the defensive balance. Otherwise we'd still see Rooney in midfield next year since Gundogan isn't very good defensively. If we buy Gundogan we'd still need another midfielder, since we're short on defensive midfield options.
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I definitely think Gundogan would be seen more as a Carrick replacement than a Fellaini replacement at this juncture. Whatever LvG does I hope he sticks with the inverted triangle midfield as I I like the way it shapes our attack, the other version is essentially 4-2-3-1 and I don't think we have the right players for that.
 
NL Max said:
Depends a bit on his formation. He has played 433 with the point forward and backward. If it's backward (like we currently use) the 6 is important for the buildup and the passing range will be very important.

If the point is forward the 10 is more important, and the 6 will have less of an influence. Overall it's an important part though, and it surely will be one of his criteria.

OT: I'm not sure if Gundogan is a player we need right now. Van Gaal said he bought Blind for midfield, if we already buy a replacement for Carrick, while he's still here, what would that mean for Blind? He's defensively aware, reads the game well and has a great pass in him. He's done well in his first season, he looks like the replacement for Carrick to me.

I think we could better look for a backup for Herrera who could play 6 if both Carrick and Blind are out, while still maintaining the defensive balance. Otherwise we'd still see Rooney in midfield next year since Gundogan isn't very good defensively. If we buy Gundogan we'd still need another midfielder, since we're short on defensive midfield options.
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Christoph Kramer, one of the Bender brothers or Morgan Schneiderlin then.
 
How does he perform for his country? Dortmund players don't perform very well when they leave Dortmund, just look at Kagawa.

Would Pjanic not be a better purchase?
 
strongwalker said:
If i were to look for a Carrick replacement, i'd set an eye on Bayern's Rode. Should be a bargain that might turn out a big signing. Skill, strength, passion, very dynamic player. Reminds me of the young Lothar Matthäus.
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If he is that good, then why Bayern would sell him?
 
crossy1686 said:
How does he perform for his country? Dortmund players don't perform very well when they leave Dortmund, just look at Kagawa.

Would Pjanic not be a better purchase?
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What about Lewa and Gotze? Both are doing well for Bayern.

Weird to stereotype 'Dortmund players' based purely on Kagawa and Sahin.

if a player's good enough, he'll be fine.
 
Cina said:
What about Lewa and Gotze? Both are doing well for Bayern.

Weird to stereotype 'Dortmund players' based purely on Kagawa and Sahin.

if a player's good enough, he'll be fine.
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Lewa Yes. Gotze? Not too sure. Turned more into a James Milner than a Frank Ribery for Germany's best club. But he's still young.
 
Mainoldo said:
Lewa Yes. Gotze? Not too sure. Turned more into a James Milner than a Frank Ribery for Germany's best club. But he's still young.
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He is 22, and has played 40 times for Madrid this season and scored 15 goals. Quite good.
 
Revan said:
He is 22, and has played 40 times for Madrid this season and scored 15 goals. Quite good.
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Götze had a good run for about 10 weeks in the first half of the season. It looked like he finally found his place in the team and started to play very well. Ever since, he's been average or invisible with the rare good game inbetween. He's nowhere near as bad as Sahin was at Real/Liverpool or Kagawa at United of course, but overall he has been disappointing. He needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to start regularly next season (unless our injury crisis never ends of course).
 
crossy1686 said:
How does he perform for his country? Dortmund players don't perform very well when they leave Dortmund, just look at Kagawa.

Would Pjanic not be a better purchase?
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Pjanic would be safer, but has a lower ceiling than Gundogan and is a less natural fit for the 4-5-1 side CM job we've seen Fellaini and Herrera do the last couple of months.

Lovely passer of the ball, though, and at 25 he'd be a nice purchase in that you'd expect him to peak in his late 20's rather than mid-20's with his laconic style.
 
Gotze is being underrated here.

He'd walk into our team as the LWF and Van Gaal would love his patience on the ball. Clever player with a consistent goal threat of 1 goal every 180-200 minutes, which translates to about 15-18 goals in the Prem if he's healthy, which would be an excellent return for us.
 
I think the most logical, least disruptive move would be to buy an all-around CM with mobility and an offensive game this summer then replace Carrick in 2016. Plugging in Gundogan as the former and say Krychowiak as the latter, this looks coherent enough:

2015-16:

Gundogan-Herrera (Fellaini, Mata/Di Maria)
-------Blind------ (Carrick)

2016-17 and beyond:


Gundogan-Herrera (Fellaini, Mata/Di Maria)
-------Blind------ (Krychowiak)
 
peterstorey said:
I don't think it's irrelevant at all, he doesn't look like the same player post-injury.
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With the nature of his injury, it was always going to take a while for him to get back to full fitness, let alone regain his previous form. That type of injury is extremely debilitating which is why he put on the weight. However from what I understand, you're more likely to make a full recovery than with the knee problems Falcao and Vidal have had for example.

Speaking from experience, nerve problems are terrible, but once you come out the other side you're no more likely to suffer from a relapse than anyone who's never had a problem. I think that's what would make him a more favourable option than the likes of Vidal or Strootman, where their injuries cause a permanent weakness and increase the chance of repeat injury.
 
Der Westen in Germany are reporting that Gundogan is Man Utd bound. The only player thus far we've been linked with that has me excited.

Der Westen are supposedly reliable aswel. Really hope this transfer happens.
 
Adnan said:
Der Westen in Germany are reporting that Gundogan is Man Utd bound. The only player thus far we've been linked with that has me excited.

Der Westen are supposedly reliable aswel. Really hope this transfer happens.
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Don't fancy Depay?
 
Adnan said:
I have my doubts about Depay, think he'll be a good player but nothing more.
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Fair enough. I think it's hard not to get excited about a powerful, explosive, technical wing forward with 26 goals to his name already this season especially when he's barely 21 and the rest of the European big guns are showing an interest.
 
Pexbo said:
Fair enough. I think it's hard not to get excited about a powerful, explosive, technical wing forward with 26 goals to his name already this season especially when he's barely 21 and the rest of the European big guns are showing an interest.
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I just don't think his dribbling is of the highest standard. He seems to lose control of the ball too many times in tight spaces. But i hope if we do sign him he proves me wrong.
 
Him competing with herrera for the #6 slot will be interesting.

But risk with him is his injury issues. Can he get back to his top level ?
 
We should get both Sahin and Gundogan. Add in Hummels too.
 
Balu said:
Götze had a good run for about 10 weeks in the first half of the season. It looked like he finally found his place in the team and started to play very well. Ever since, he's been average or invisible with the rare good game inbetween. He's nowhere near as bad as Sahin was at Real/Liverpool or Kagawa at United of course, but overall he has been disappointing. He needs to do better, a lot better, if he wants to start regularly next season (unless our injury crisis never ends of course).
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He's played more or less every position for Bayern by now. Which is his best position and which is the position you think he needs to play in to break in to the first eleven? How has he progressed in terms of his abilities since joining Bayern?
 
prarek said:
We should get both Sahin and Gundogan. Add in Hummels too.
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Sahin's ship has sailed. When was the in form man he spent the next couple of years, when he really could have gone on to become world class, by not playing for both Madrid and Liverpool.
 
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