İlkay Gündoğan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Carrick is 34 ot 35. Have to plan ahead.
get Schneiderlin in and we're set for 5-7 seasons.
Sign this guy and Schweinsteiger and we will have an amazing midfield with great depth. We need 2 new CMs.
That's not anything special if Carrick is injured half the time. Van Gaal has confirmed we need to sign a replacement otherwise we putting other players there. Gundogan should be one of two signings we make as CM.
Yeah I agree with you, no doubt about that. Just thought that maybe van Gaal thinks with his possible loss of mobility that he could transform him into that kind of player. He is still only 24 and can improve and change his game, but right now I also don't think he will ever be a Carrick type of player. Maybe the media are just talking bullshit anyway and we want him for the number 8 role. We could use a DLM and a box-to-box-type, so a fit Gündogan will be a good addition for us anyway.
I don't know but I think signing both is not such a good idea. Too many question marks on either yet we need at least one of our CM signings needs to be a guy at the top of his game or one on the verge.
The only question mark would be the fitness. Gündogan needs a proper pre season. Schweinsteiger would be the bigger concern but he oozes class and with him and Carrick battling it out for the #6 position I think we would be well stocked. To rely on a 34 old Carrick to carry us through a whole season is madness and Gündogan in no way can play that position.
I've never seen Gundogan play in a very advanced role and don't think he'd be good there. For Dortmund he plays as one of the two midfielders at the base of the diamond with Bender, Kehl or Sahin. Mkhitaryan or Kagawa play the attacking position.
Van Gaal has commentated a few times now that he wants another right footed player like that which makes sense because of Carrick's age and injury problems this season. If we bought Gundogan I think the long term plan would be for him to partner Blind with Herrera ahead of them. If (and it's a big if) he can get back to his pre-injury form that would be a very nice midfield who could play together for a few seasons.
Van Gaal has commentated a few times now that he wants another right footed player like that which makes sense because of Carrick's age and injury problems this season. If we bought Gundogan I think the long term plan would be for him to partner Blind with Herrera ahead of them. If (and it's a big if) he can get back to his pre-injury form that would be a very nice midfield who could play together for a few seasons.
he started out as a #10 so he's more than capable of playing higher up the pitch.
Blind will never be good enough as a midfielder for United, certainly not a holding midfielder. No surprise that as most of his career has been at left wing back or left back, where in my opinion, he is our first choice based on performances this season.
Watch his performance against Bayern Munich in 2013 in the Super Cup. Made a midfield with Thiago and Kroos his little bitch. One of the best individual midfield performances I've seen in a long time.
-----------Gündogan----Herrera---------
---------------Schweinsteiger------------
Tremendous.
-----------Gündogan----Herrera---------
---------------Schweinsteiger------------
Yes please... The triangles those 3 would play..
If Barca are seriously interested in him even though he can't play for them till 2016 then we can obviously forget about this guy
I would tend to agree but really after his injury lay off why take so much time off playing? Dortmund say he is leaving this summer so it's not as if Barca are saying to Dortmund he can play half a season with you guys and we'll pay his wages (they are always shifty), then register him in Jan 16.
He would then need to get into a midfield that has just won the league and possibly the CL, he would need to shift Rakatic or Iniesta as cant play Busquets role, add to that they also seem favorites to sign Pogba so why risk your playing time further. Since they bought Suarez they go with only three in the middle, I know Xavi has left but he was being used mainly as a substitute.
If he joins us he'd be an automatic starter like he is at Dortmund, its a strange one, I'm sure more will be revealed after German cup final.
I've never understood what purpose these kinds of post serve.
To create muppet fear?
Those type of posts are like the scary music in some films when you know something bad will happen.
In the era of massive fees for big names I'm very, very happy to watch United take a gamble on Gundogan especially since he would easily have been a £40-50m player if he was sold after the CL final season.
I'm not one bit bothered about his injury because it was more of a condition than an injury and it does not seem to have relapsed. I have a strong feel he will be back to his best and at 24 years of age nothing should stop him in doing so.
Can still see us signing a CDM too even though Gundogan can play there.
Agree with all of that man. Said it myself many times on here.
He's not a risk imo, nor injury-prone either. He's nailed on to being the player he was (check out his vids from this season to see that he's still got it) - he just needs a good rest during the summer & a pre-season in him too.
Definitely need a defensive midfielder or a box-to-box midfielder also. Gutted about Strootman - he'd be my top signing if he wasnt crocked right now. I hope United are gettin updates on that lad though & if the updates are positive - feckin sign him for a reduced fee based on appearances etc. United can spunk all the money they want (taking risks too) & i couldnt give about it shite either - aslong as its not our only signing in that area i.e. all eggs in the basket..
Dare I ask.....what CM has moved for "£40-50m" ..... pretty much ever?
Modric and Martinez were around £35m IIRC.
Apart from them, I don't think not many big name CMs have made moves in the last few years unlike forwards, wingers and attacking midfielders.
Veron cost £30m almost 15 years ago. Yaya Toure and Xabi Alonso also cost £30m over 5 years ago now and fees have inflated exponentially in that time.
I can imagine Pogba setting that record if he leaves Turin this season.
Zidane.
Seems to me he's more likely to go elsewhere than to Old Trafford, apart from those initial links a couple of months back there's been very little linking us with him whereas he's been linked to just about everyone since
We need some steel in midfield imo, i don't know who but i hope we will be looking at another midfielder along side this guy.
Ian Ladyman of the Daily Mail says we have a strong interest in Gundogan. He's normally a reliable journo so I'm quite optimistic about this deal.
I wouldn't write it off completely, it's a bit similar to Memphis Depay. Van Gaal is keeping his transfer business quiet very well, if we're going to get leaks it'll probably be from the media in the country we buy a player from. Because PSV are very open we know that van Gaal only enquired once and didn't make contact afterwards untill he actually had to, to stop Memphis from signing for PSG.
I'm inclined to say that because of this story suddenly popping up in a German trusted newspaper a while back, it could be the same scenario. Gundogan is a perfect van Gaal type of player so I can see it happening and I'd be delighted aswell. Wether it's true I don't know, but this transfer at least sounds more likely than others.
I agree with you. I think Gundogan is excellent but he'd be another lightweight player. We only have Fellaini and Rooney who can offer strenght in midfield, I'm pretty sure van Gaal realises this and will want another option.
Solid answers so far, but still not a single CM coming close to £40-50m. The Pogba prediction probably closest. £34m seems to be the max for oddly for Fernandinho, Witsel, Cesc(to Barca not Chelsea) and Asier......would probably explain why teams are a bit hesitant since none of those four are lighting their midfields up, except Cesc in the next transfer for less. And before those lot, Veron and Mendieta probably had Europe on eggshells about doing huge CM signings.
I can't think of any either. Shockingly, Modric only went for 30m according to wiki.
If you're basing a valuation on anything other than the player themselves then you're a bit daft imo. If a player is worth that much to a team, they'll pay it. Midfield is usually an area where experience is a must. Same with goalkeepers really, and defenders to an extent. You need assured quality in that area, which usually takes years to develop. No-one is going to pay 40m+ for a 27-28+ year old, Real and Zidane being the exception to the rule because of how outrageously good he was and how mental Real are/were. They generally don't care. But for most, that wouldn't represent good business sense. Pogba, Verratti etc represent anomalies and command high fees for their age and potential as well as world class form.
Would Schnweinsteiger be considered that steel?
He could be the deepest lying central midfielder imo, although he'd be more of a Scholes than a Carrick in that role at the moment. If he was a bit more disciplined and worked on his positioning off the ball he could be perfect for it.
Question is who else would be the best third wheel to Gundogan and Herrera... Blind isn't really good enough to be a first choice midfielder, and I doubt LVG will want 3 right footed players in midfield given his obsession with balance. Di Maria would be the obvious solution but can he be trusted in midfield in the Premier League, on current evidence definitely not.
Question is who else would be the best third wheel to Gundogan and Herrera... Blind isn't really good enough to be a first choice midfielder, and I doubt LVG will want 3 right footed players in midfield given his obsession with balance. Di Maria would be the obvious solution but can he be trusted in midfield in the Premier League, on current evidence definitely not.
Our best run of form came with 3 right footers in midfield this season, and Gundogan is very two footed. If LvG wanted a left foot addition though then Xhaka would be my pick.
So why didn't Cesc or Modric go for their actual "believed" values? The valuations for CM's just aren't as high as people think they are....and the general toughness for them to adjust after high profile moves is clearly a part of it. Also the fact that most executives probably value stone cold stats such as goals and assists more than anything else.
It's worth noting the time value of money when talking about such things. Veron for example cost 28.1m in 2001, however adjusted for inflation that would be 42.3m in today's money. Puts in perspective what a massive outlay that was at the time.
Some other interesting fees adjusted for inflation:
Carrick 24.8m
Ferdinand 45.4m
Keane 7m
Cole 12.4m
Beckham (out) 36.3m
Ronaldo (in) 17.8m
Ronaldo (out) 95.3m
Rooney 38.4m
Meanwhile Zidane went for a whopping 69.4m when adjusted to today's value, and mendieta 45.1. Shockingly Barca sold the original Ronaldo for 32.8m.
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I've seen the obligatory youtube videos and they give me the impression he has a not only a great range of passing, but he can pick out a teammate in space or a teammate making runs very quickly and effortlessly as well. He understands space really well. I like that.
Comparing his stats in squawka with Carricks shows they match each other blow for blow except where Gundogan is better in offense and Carrick is better in defence, although these two disparities can be explained by the fact they both play different roles. E.g. Gundogan will create more chances by virtue of being more offensive and Carrick will clear the ball more often by virtue of being more defensive (and having played in centerback more often)
However, reading, back a few pages, there are conflicting opinions on whether he can defend or attack, etc. Is there anyone who has followed the bundesliga regularly this season who is able to give an account of Gundogan's abilities and the average style and position he has played this season? E.g. I feel his distribution is excellent which is good for that number 6 role, but is he positionally disciplined and intelligent enough to play in that deep role and shield the defence? Etc etc
Comparing his stats in squawka with Carricks shows they match each other blow for blow except where Gundogan is better in offense and Carrick is better in defence, although these two disparities can be explained by the fact they both play different roles. E.g. Gundogan will create more chances by virtue of being more offensive and Carrick will clear the ball more often by virtue of being more defensive (and having played in centerback more often)
However, reading, back a few pages, there are conflicting opinions on whether he can defend or attack, etc. Is there anyone who has followed the bundesliga regularly this season who is able to give an account of Gundogan's abilities and the average style and position he has played this season? E.g. I feel his distribution is excellent which is good for that number 6 role, but is he positionally disciplined and intelligent enough to play in that deep role and shield the defence? Etc etc
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