What on earth is that supposed to mean ?
İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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What on earth is that supposed to mean ?
depends on wages I guess if we can offer him a massive payslip I reckon he would still come to us Champs league or not
probably that when he plays on the left he has the ability to cut inside to create a midfield 3 instead of 2
Madrid or Barcelona will also offer him a big payrise, considerably bigger than us too. Not to mention Chelsea and City could also become interested if he's on the move. Gundogan currently is in the tier of players that we have very little chance of getting.
Yeah, it's not like a standard "going to a Europa League club". I'm sure we could
Still, it's pretty much guaranteed that Real and Barcelona will offer him far more money as well. If those two really, genuinely want a player we can forget about him. We won't be able to compete with them on any front, really. Prospect of success, lure of the club, money: they're just ahead of us on all those fronts unfortunately.
But Real Madrid and Barcelona can't buy all the players so we could still get quality footballers. Just not Gündogan or Vidal.
You'd have to give him some serious assurances that we'd be looking to bring some quality alongside him too. No chance would I come here at the moment if I was him. If we signed a couple alongside him, people would sit up and take note
Oh, no doubt about that. Mind you, that was the case before this season even started.
We have nothing on Madrid or Barcelona, literally nothing. They have as much history as we do, they have MUCH better teams right now, they're based in nicer cities that could offer an attractive lifestyle. I see absolutely no reason why a player who isn't a United fan would ever pick us ahead of them two.
Ferguson gave us a massive advantage in the past as he offered stability and an opportunity to work with an icon. That's gone.
Yeah, it always was. They didn't always have better teams but the other factors were always present.
Yeah but as I said they can't buy every footballer on the planet. City and Chelsea can get quality players. If we start offering the same kind of money there's no reason why we can't compete with them. If we don't have the money, well, then God help us. Then we can compete with Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal for the scraps. But with our revenue we should be able to rival the oil clubs for our targets. We just can't afford to make as many mistakes in the market as they can.
We've not been able to compete with top teams for fees and (probably) wages for a while, refusing to meet players valuations, putting in low bids for top class players and generally fannying around which has cost us a few signings that would probably be crucial now. To think that we could have had Pogba in midfield with Hazard on the wing right now and it would have cost us far less than Fellaini and Young.
Well we should obviously change that policy. That goes without saying. We must accept the realities of modern football and stop expecting top quality players to be simply awed by the name of Manchester United.
Young was already here when Hazard became available. And it's not like Hazard was cheap - wasn't it 38m and 8m to the agent? Obviously a class player but we can't go around pretending young was a more expensive alternative when we already had him and he cost less than half the price.
I think he was 30 million which was a fair price for a player of his calibre. 6 million to the agent as far as I remember which is reality too.
Barcelona won't offer Gundogan huge wages, and they wouldn't have to as he'll be delighted they would see him as a fit for their team and the successor to Xavi, doubt they'll offer Dortmund big money either. Perez won't offer him insane wages at Real Madrid, either, as he's not a Galactico or done anything to date that sets them off on their wankfest campaigns. Gondugan isn't the kind of midfielder they fawn over. He'd be paid a decent wage at both clubs, but nothing mind-boggling like what is being suggested. Incentive and performance driven contract with a strong tilt upward as reward is how they'll play it because they have no need to break the bank given so many players gladly sell themselves short to go there and prove themselves.
It's the sugar daddy clubs that will pay obscene amounts to land him precisely because they have to.
If he ends up at Barcelona, it won't be because of money or the best (or anywhere close to it) financial package, same goes for Real Madrid to a lesser extent. I'd be quite certain we would offer more in wages than either of those clubs but we don't have anything else to turn his head, unless he's a fan of what we've done in the past and has an interest in playing for Manchester United.
If the sugar daddy clubs didn't involve themselves, I reckon in pure financial terms, we would offer the best package for Dortmund and the player.
It's the sugar daddy clubs that will pay obscene amounts to land him precisely because they have to.
If he ends up at Barcelona, it won't be because of money or the best (or anywhere close to it) financial package, same goes for Real Madrid to a lesser extent. I'd be quite certain we would offer more in wages than either of those clubs but we don't have anything else to turn his head, unless he's a fan of what we've done in the past and has an interest in playing for Manchester United.
If the sugar daddy clubs didn't involve themselves, I reckon in pure financial terms, we would offer the best package for Dortmund and the player.
If he went to Barca his after tax earnings would probably be somewhere between €6m and 7m (Fabregas is on 5.7, Iniesta is on 7m), about £5m. At Real Madrid it would be about the same - somewhere between the 4.5m of Modric and the 7m of Bale. The difference between Madrid and Barca salaries is probably related to prize bonuses.
Converting that into the way United and the English press normally report wages, which is pre-tax - that would cost us about £200k week, top pay but you'd have to view that as the going rate.
So that's the top end of the non sugar daddy payscale. It's worth bearing in mind that sugar daddy clubs normally only dramatically overpay the early arrivals, the flagship signings if you like while they're buying the way to the top table. Then they drop back to something closer to the normal pattern.
After you get the fee to Dortmund right, and the wages right - you can then discuss your "sporting project" and all the rest of that stuff.
Converting that into the way United and the English press normally report wages, which is pre-tax - that would cost us about £200k week, top pay but you'd have to view that as the going rate.
So that's the top end of the non sugar daddy payscale. It's worth bearing in mind that sugar daddy clubs normally only dramatically overpay the early arrivals, the flagship signings if you like while they're buying the way to the top table. Then they drop back to something closer to the normal pattern.
After you get the fee to Dortmund right, and the wages right - you can then discuss your "sporting project" and all the rest of that stuff.
I think it's more that they change the game, and then wait for the others to catch up. So their wages become the norm, and they stick with that, rather than pushing it ever onwards. If you actually start trying to bring players in for less than you are already paying others in your squad, it's not going to work.
This post has almost zero basis in reality. Barcelona and Real Madrid have been the two highest paying football clubs on the planet for a while, Manchester City only surpassed them last year.
Many players are glad to join the Spanish big two but they don't have to "sell themselves short" because these two clubs pay enormous wages.
If you look at the wage structure of both clubs, you will see that their superstars get paid the highest rates but the lesser players are not paid anything special at all. I don't think Gundogan would be going to either club as a superstar or with the fanfare that comes with their socio-wooing signings. Messi, Neymar and Iniesta distort Barcelona overall squad bill massively. Real Madrid are renowned for not paying well across the board instead reserving a large portion of their wage bill for their toys.
Is Perez creaming himself over Gundongan and offering propaganda as such? If he is, then sure, but I'd think Perez will be after some other goalscoring superstar for this summer's marquee signing and my bet would be Suarez.
If Gundongan's biggest concern is money, then he's going to get the best packages by far in England, imo.
Out of curiosity, is Gundongan being hyped up in Spain?
Regarding the sugardaddy clubs. When they go in for the very top brass, they pay over the odds still.
I'm with Fortitude on this. I suspect jojojo is using the wrong benchmarks. How about Mascerano and Khedira ? Barca/Real Madrid logic is not the same as United logic. Assuming Gundogan is on our top 5 list for centre midfield, I suspect our financial offer would beat that of the Spanish giants. Still don't see him joining us but it won't be due to the money on offer, either to Dortmund or to the player.
Gundogan's supposed to be Alonso's replacement - I'd expect to see him go into the Alonso, Modric, Pepe, Diego Lopez group around 4.5m + prize money. At Barcelona I'd see him in the Mascherano, Pique group around 5.5m rather than the Busquets 6.5m. Figures are after tax.
Yes, they do get players in cheaper, particularly Spanish ones and those they take from Portugal and Brazil, and they take their time about improving the contracts of the young players who join the squad. Isco is believed to be on on around €2m. Varane, Illarra and their young players like Morata around €1m but if they want a player who is "in demand" they pay the going rate and at times they set the going rate.
Of course we can match them for wages, but he won't be cheap even if our "only" competition are Barca and Madrid.
Thought that was Illaramendi that Madrid have already spunked £30M+ on?. Modric is hardly old either.
I'm answering the what would they bid/pay question for a "player at that level" not whether they will go for him. That's all about how Illarra develops and the formation that Ancelotti wants to use. All they seem to have concluded so far is that Modric isn't Alonso's replacement but Modric plus someone might be.
The Gundogan thing for them came up originally because they saw him as key to Dortmund's CL success last year, particularly their success against Madrid. It's also part of their pattern to move in on players late in their contracts.
It's like the Barca thing. They are looking for Xavi's replacement, as of now they don't see an internal heir and they'll be linked with every quality, transferable midfield player in Europe until they do.
Basically he is saying as have i for a while. He is not as important to them as he would be for us. Signing Gundogan is hardly going to have any effect on Barcelona fans. It would be the equivilant of signing Alex Song or Mascherano.
He's German, I doubt the climate has anything to do with where he plays. The German Winter is a lot harsher than ours, because they don't have the luxury of the Jetstream. Besides, whats wrong with rain? We don't get flooded up here you know!
And that didn't do much for us in terms of getting top players.
Money, glory and lifestyle are all a player cares about and rightly so. We're not competitive in offering any of these factors right now.
We could beat Madrid or Barca to a player. It's quite simple, we offer at least 50% more in after-tax wages. But we won't do that, ever. No matter how much we need a player.
Wow you should have said earlier
Of course it did, we got some players we probably wouldn't have got without Ferguson - van Persie being the prime example.
Reading kingmingers posts makes me wonder how we have any players at all. We literally offer nothing.
Fergie and Gill were incompetent in the market, and in the general handling of personnel, during the last years of the ancien regime. It was the one area I hoped a new broom would sweep clean. Then along came Laurel and Hardy..
45 million bid in the summer and he is ours. Get it done. Signing him would unlock the shackles (chuckle bradas Carrick,Jones and Cleverley as partners in midfield. Lawlzies) we put onto Fellaini and we will finally see both working in tandem and propel us back onto the world stage again.
yes I imagine he is looking forward to the new challenge of playing in the UEFA cup... how could Madrid compete against that!
Have the CL places been decided?
We're United, we always give up 16 games before the end of the season..
Gotcha. I was under the impression that the top 4 hadn't been decided yet but clearly Kingminger and sun-tzu know better. How foolish of me to think that 6 points was insurmountable for a piece of shit club like United.
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