Why? If he's not deemed United quality then we shouldn't be buying players for the sake of it.
£40m for Ozil | Deal to Arsenal confirmed
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Why? If he's not deemed United quality then we shouldn't be buying players for the sake of it.
I don't think we'll see a serious impact on carricks game for at least 2 more seasons, he's naturally a deeper player anyway so doesn't have to adapt in the way lampard, scholes an gerrard did/have. Giggs at 39 going on 40 to me hasn't seen much change in his physical capabilities. Clev isn't that young anymore we should be expecting more from him. I agree ando is undependable, personally I think we should be looking to bring in two midfielders a young understudy too carrick and a creative player, but if we can't find a creative player of sufficient quality I think we can cope as long as we at least bring in someone to cover carrick. We'd have 5 players properly competing for the 2 centre spots and also jones as well depending on how things work out in defence. I think that's enough to get us through the season. As I said I would like a top creative player but I think we can compete in the league and domestic cups without one even though it will be harder.
We've got Kagawa, is Orvil much of an up grade on him? How about be buy a proper midfield eh...
I don't know why agents always use us to get better deals, you'd think they use the sugar daddy clubs. It's probably because we don't come out and comment on the speculation, whereas other clubs will rubbish certain stories, so they're free to go wild with it.
I'd like us to get Özil, but I think we only would if Rooney was off. Maybe someone from Madrid will go if Bale comes, but I get the impression that they'd rather it was Di Maria (who we don't need) than Özil.
I really don't get the Kagawa love in on this site, at all.
I think Kagawa is a great little player and I like what I've seen of his off field persona, but his first season here was reasonably forgettable. Ozil has been basically incredible for about 4 years now, 6 if you go back and include his time at Bremen (which you should).
Using Kagawa as an example of why we shouldn't buy Ozil just strikes me as bizarre. Why do people have such loyalty to a player who should be earning a place in this team rather than gifted it?
If we signed Ozil, we'd be a better team for it. I agree there's other areas we should be looking at as a priority, but if he's become available and he wants to sign for us (which I doubt) then why shouldn't we be very very keen on that?
I think Kagawa is a great little player and I like what I've seen of his off field persona, but his first season here was reasonably forgettable. Ozil has been basically incredible for about 4 years now, 6 if you go back and include his time at Bremen (which you should).
Using Kagawa as an example of why we shouldn't buy Ozil just strikes me as bizarre. Why do people have such loyalty to a player who should be earning a place in this team rather than gifted it?
If we signed Ozil, we'd be a better team for it. I agree there's other areas we should be looking at as a priority, but if he's become available and he wants to sign for us (which I doubt) then why shouldn't we be very very keen on that?
So would I. But I think we need a Fellaini type player more than an Ozil type player, despite Ozil being the better player.
Kagawa was great for Dortmund. I was always more impressed with him when I seen him for Dortmund than I do be for Ozil, who often underwhelms me and seems to drift in and out of games. I've seen Kagawa run Dortmund matches on numerous occasions previously.
Kagawa's first season was forgettable because he was misused. We have a gem there that we haven't fit in to the team, yet want to spend 40m on a very similar type player who may not be that much of an improvement on the player that we do have.
Just my opinion.
I wouldn't say no to Ozil of course, once it didn't prevent us buying a proper central midfield player, which I honestly believe is imperative.
If he's available then Ozil is the kind of player you just sign and worry about fitting him later. Let's not kid ourselves, Ozil is on a different level to Kagawa and would be a big improvement
Yup even of it meant losing Kagawa I would take Ozil.
What's the current thinking on his attitude/lifestyle issues? Was that just the usual Mourinho crap, or are there genuine concerns over his commitment?
Pretty much agree with everything on Rooney situation, obviously excellent player who means a lot to our play and us challenging for trophies, but if he wants to leave, and if get lot money for him, then we should let him go(but not for any price, I wouldn't take anything less than (around)45 milion Euros for selling him abroad, and nothing less than 60millions if he is going to Chelsea).
As for playing without real wingers, depends how you define it. Don't forget we have 4 "real" wingers in Young, Zaha, Valencia and Nani, so you would expect to see at least one of them in almost every game. They may not keep width as they used, but Nani, Young were never touchline hugging wingers under Fergie too, and I think Valencia will continue to be used in same way as he was under Fergie because he is that type of player.
I don't think Özil ever played consistently on a comparable level to Kagawa's 11/12 form at Dortmund. He's a different type of player (I actually could see them complement each other very well) and probably needs a very specific setup to get the best out of him, but so does Özil, imo. I highly doubt, he wants to leave Madrid, though.
Disagree. Ozil's first 2 seasons for Madrid were fantastic. Their main creative player and probably their second best player overall. His stats alone since the world cup for Germany/Real Madrid are absolutely ludicrous. IMo he's one of the most creative players in the world
Yeah, but Kagawa was better.
Ozil at Real>>>>Kagawa at Dortmund.
It's not even worth a debate for me.
It's not even worth a debate for me.
People forget Ozil is quite often invisible in big games, where Kagawa shined for Dortmund in those.
He certainly wasn't invisible against us, unfortunately. He does appear to drift through games sometimes but his stats suggest he is very effective.
Really? Because I don't see anything special in this, except for first half at Bernabeu, in second he faded like always:
Boring performance at Old Trafford if anything, created almost nothing(apart from that "preassist" after we were man down), and lot of pointless passing when they were already dominating possession.
Ronaldo was absolutely laughing playing with Ozil earlier on. Countless goals laid on a plate by Ozil.
Taking the whole season into account, Kagawa was not really consistent. His two season halfs were like night and day. His first half was pretty poor and he played nearly completely in the shadow of Götze. It was ironically around the time of the latter´s injury (December/January), when Kagawa´s form exploded. He kept his peak until the the end of the season and was one of Dortmund´s most important players.
To be honest, this comparision between Kagawa and Özil is pretty senseless, because they are vastly different player types. In fact they are as different as it gets with players, who primary occupy the central role of an offensive three man midfield.
This makes statements like Özil being better than Kagawa in pretty much everything simply false, because they are of course areas where Kagawa is superior. He is the more mobile and faster player and on a completely different level when it comes to defensive contribution (especially in terms of pressing) and finishing. Özil on the other hand has undoubtly better vision and passing ability.
Both are players, who can become crucial for a team, when they are given their natural roles. Özil is something, that has become quite a rarity in modern football: a classic play maker or true "10". He is not on the field to score goals himself, but to allow others to do it. He is a walking passing and assist machine.
Kagawa is way more offensive minded. He focuses normally more on scoring himself than assisting. He also usually cuts deeper into the box and often acts more like a second striker than a midfielder. He was particular known in Dortmund for constantly interchanging positions with their main striker Lewandowski.
If we want to compare, what either player offers and contributes at their peak, then there is really not much between them. However, I can see, why people might see Özil as the "better" player. He has played at top level for a longer time and at multiple clubs. This is something Kagawa has yet to prove completely.
Do you think they can complement each other quite well in the same team?
Nah, even when Madrid were playing poorly (as they did for most of the two legs) his touch and movement was a constant menace. He always looked the most likely to create something for them. A fair few had him as Madrid's man of the match in both games, newspapers especially.
As I said he does tend to drift through games, going through patches where he doesn't see much of the ball. His stats show how effective he is though, as Akash pointed out. No club in their right mind would swap take Kagawa ahead of Ozil, which says a lot seeing as Kagawa is serious quality.
Why not? Presumably we weren't always planning to sell Rooney so for Kagawa and him to play one of them would have to play wider. If the team sets up properly there's no reason it can't work.
He was still recovering from his long term injury early in the season, if I remember correctly? He needed a while to get back to 100%, but when fully fit again he instantly started being brilliant and he carried the team in every bad game and won a few on his own with brilliant individual moments in the second half of the season, which lead to that record breaking league title. I should have made that clearer, you're right that Götze was the better player in the first 10 or so games. I agree with the rest of your post. I wrote mine as a reaction to akash's statement that Özil is on a different level to Kagawa and that's just wrong, imo.
You need to get yourself down to Specsavers...
I would say, that 90 % of the fanbase of Dortmund (myself included) would take Kagawa over Özil any day and I also think that Klopp would think similary. Özil does not offer enough defensive contribution and more importantly pressing strength to really work in his system. These two things are at the same time some of Kagawa´s biggest strengths as AM.
It is certainly not as clear as some might believe on here.
Theoretically? Yes. You would need a certain setup, though. I think we are all clear, that the only even remotely realistic chance of getting Özil would involve Rooney leaving, right? So that would leave you with Nani, Kagawa and Özil as the primary options in the offensive three man midfield.
In my eyes, if you want to use this combination, you need to put Kagawa in the hole, because you will need his goal threat, which is impacted when pulled to the left flank. It would like this:
Özil - Kagawa - Nani
---------RvP----------
Nani and Özil are class players, but they are assist orientated and not much of goal scorers. If you would just replace Rooney with Özil one for one, you would end up with three offensive midfielder without much direct danger. This would put enourmous responsibility on the main striker, so in most cases RvP, to make the goals. Even with a world class striker like RvP, United´s offensive would be too predictable and also too reliant on RvP´s form.
I think the Caf overrates Ozil, tbh. Fantastic player obviously but has a tendency to drift out of games and not help out his midfield enough.
Kroos and Kagawa are closer to him in terms of ability than some one here like to admit.
Kroos and Kagawa are closer to him in terms of ability than some one here like to admit.
I'm not sure we need an Ozil type player. We already have Kagawa, Rooney, and potentially Adnan and Powell playing similar roles. Fabregas, Wilshere or Modric would be ideal players for our needs. Someone young to takeover from in the future, and give Carrick a break would also be nice.
Definitely an understudy to Carrick would be great, I'd imagine though Ozil would be Rooney's replacement if we were trying to get him. We probably have too many attacking players as it is, can't add anymore without a few leaving I'd have thought.
OK, so the Bale deal still remains more on than off in Madrid eyes. Ozil meanwhile is not amused, in fact he's starting to wonder if his German team position will survive if he's not getting quality playing time in Madrid.
With this is mind Madrid are expecting a 45m Euro bid this week (from us?) and Ozil may ask them to accept. If he does ask to go, they'll be tempted - otherwise he's not for sale. According to a couple of reporters who normally have an idea what Madrid are up to...
With this is mind Madrid are expecting a 45m Euro bid this week (from us?) and Ozil may ask them to accept. If he does ask to go, they'll be tempted - otherwise he's not for sale. According to a couple of reporters who normally have an idea what Madrid are up to...
If this happens I'll be over the moon. Rather have Ozil than bale. I don't normally get muppety over potential targets, but Ozil was one of the very few when I first saw him for Germany. If he comes to England he'll outshine the likes of mata and silva.
I'd accept taking Ozil, we can then flog Rooney and have an attacking formation as follows:
_Kagawa_Ozil_Ronnie_
________RVP________
Happy days.
_Kagawa_Ozil_Ronnie_
________RVP________
Happy days.
There may be no room for Ozil when we have Mata 
Good news. Hopefully Bale signs.
There may be no room for Ozil when we have Mata
Ah yes, forgot about the Mata/Rooney swap. Thanks for reminding me bro.
Please don't.
Ozil is the kind of player that needs a team built around him, that's not what currently happening at Real hence he is not at the level where he should be at. Inspite of that his stats for the past couple of seasons are incredible.
Are people still trying to argue how good he is?
If we made him the linchpin of our team he would be unbelievable here.
If we made him the linchpin of our team he would be unbelievable here.
Has he sorted out fitness issues, we really don't want another Anderson in terms of stamina issues, apart from that however he's worldclass!
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