Tottenham Hotspur 2:0 Manchester United

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
Why can't Mata will start when he's been starting our games recently? Personally I don't fancy Mata but I'm not the manager so there is a debate that Jose might want to start him and keep the same XI as our previous league game and bench Sanchez since he might need a bit more time until he is gel with the system and new team mate.

I don't see why playing 3 at the back can only be used if our opposition is playing 3 at the back. May be Jose wants to be more solid in defense by adding more defender. Well, technically it's 5 at the back and we are playing away so I won't be surprised if we go 5 at the back.

Mata has never started any big game for us this season, whatever the injured/suspended players were. He's too slow and weak where we have much more fresh, pacey and stronger options like Sanchez and Lingard.

Mourinho has only played 3-5-2 when the opponent was playing with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
Mata has never started any big game for us this season, whatever the injured/suspended players were. He's too slow and weak where we have much more fresh, pacey and stronger options like Sanchez and Lingard.

Mourinho has only played 3-5-2 when the opponent was playing with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2.

But Herrera has been so poor in all big game for us this season and he only played in those big games because Pogba was injured and suspended. So if you don't think Mata will start, why Herrera who has been poor will definitely start in this game? Lingard has been in a better form than those two.

I'm pretty sure we played 3 at the back in some of our CL games this season and I don't remember any of CL teams in our group played 3 at the back. So you never know man.

sunama · Jan 29, 2018

P-Nut0712 said:
1 player doesn't make a team

You make it sound like we have a terrible team and that adding Sanchez won't make much difference.
We have the 2nd best team in the league and adding Sanchez will take us one step closer to where we want to be.

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
But Herrera has been so poor in all big game for us this season and he only played in those big games because Pogba was injured and suspended. So if you don't think Mata will start, why Herrera who has been poor will definitely start in this game? Lingard has been in a better form than those two.

I'm pretty sure we played 3 at the back in some of our CL games this season and I don't remember any of CL teams in our group played 3 at the back. So you never know man.

Herrera has done well against Everton the last time we played with direct 4-3-3 and tbf in all big games he has been playing with Matic alone without Pogba. When he played with Matic and Pogba against Everton he did well. Mata isn't a debate he has never played against a big team this season even when we were missing Pogba. Sanchez, Lingard and even Rashford are ahead of him in these kind of games.

No, even when we used 3-5-2 in CL it was also against teams that played with that system, like Cska. Mourinho has never used this formation unless to counter it. We'll play it only against teams who play with it.

P-Nut · Jan 29, 2018

sunama said:
You make it sound like we have a terrible team and that adding Sanchez won't make much difference.
We have the 2nd best team in the league and adding Sanchez will take us one step closer to where we want to be.

I'm not saying it won't. But to discount all previous games against the top sides due to adding Sanchez is silly.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
Herrera has done well against Everton the last time we played with direct 4-3-3 and tbf in all big games he has been playing with Matic alone without Pogba. When he played with Matic and Pogba against Everton he did well. Mata isn't a debate he has never played against a big team this season even when we were missing Pogba. Sanchez, Lingard and even Rashford are ahead of him in these kind of games.

No, even when we used 3-5-2 in CL it was also against teams that played with that system, like Cska. Mourinho has never used this formation unless to counter it. We'll play it only against teams who play with it.

Why do you consider Everton as a big game? Everton game is never a big game though and Everton was really poor in that game, they had no intention to win that game but just parking the bus. Herrera always very poor in big game this season, obviously it's a debate whether he will play or no and also when Pogba was fit, Herrera didn't even start against Arsenal.

And there is no debate whether Spurs is going to change it back to 3 at the back again after their recent two poor games? Which leads the debate whether we will also play 3.

Android1974 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
No, even when we used 3-5-2 in CL it was also against teams that played with that system, like Cska. Mourinho has never used this formation unless to counter it. We'll play it only against teams who play with it.

I completely agree with you, but there is one exception: Swansea away in the League Cup; probably because two youngsters, Tuanzebe and McTominay, were in the team. And, of course, there's more exceptions of the contrary, the adversary playing 3 at the back and we keeping our usual system.

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
Why do you consider Everton as a big game? Everton game is never a big game though and Everton was really poor in that game, they had no intention to win that game but just parking the bus. Herrera always very poor in big game this season, obviously it's a debate whether he will play or no and also when Pogba was fit, Herrera didn't even start against Arsenal.

And there is no debate whether Spurs is going to change it back to 3 at the back again? Which leads the debate whether we will also play 3.

When did I say Everton is a big game ? I said that was the last time we played with a proper midfield trio and Herrera looked good. Again tbf he played without Pogba in all these big games.

Sorry but is all your problem is that I said "the only debate" ? Ok it's not if that will make you feel better so relax.

Android1974 · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
Why do you consider Everton as a big game? Everton game is never a big game though and Everton was really poor in that game, they had no intention to win that game but just parking the bus. Herrera always very poor in big game this season, obviously it's a debate whether he will play or no and also when Pogba was fit, Herrera didn't even start against Arsenal.

And there is no debate whether Spurs is going to change it back to 3 at the back again after their recent two poor games? Which leads the debate whether we will also play 3.

Because we were going to that game very pessimistic, and the performance surprised us, being the first game we did some slick short passing, very much having to do with Pogba being free on the leftcenter because of Herrera's great game on the rightcenter.

Except for Newport, Tottenham don't play 3 at the back since November! If Alderweireld is back, they could revert to it, though.

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

Android1974 said:
I completely agree with you, but there is one exception: Swansea away in the League Cup; probably because two youngsters, Tuanzebe and McTominay, were in the team.

Don't remember our formation in this game at all but fair enough.

Kapardin · Jan 29, 2018

Dilemma for Jose. Do you risk a 2 man midfield to fit in Lingard who is a sure-fire Wembley goalscorer and deserves to start on current form, or do you go with a 3 man midfield dropping Lingard for ensuring midfield control?

I think Jose will go with a 2 man midfield, hopefully we don't get overrun.

Android1974 · Jan 29, 2018

Kapardin said:
Dilemma for Jose. Do you risk a 2 man midfield to fit in Lingard who is a sure-fire Wembley goalscorer and deserves to start on current form, or do you go with a 3 man midfield dropping Lingard for ensuring midfield control?

I think Jose will go with a 2 man midfield, hopefully we don't get overrun.

They're not mutually exclusive, as the Burnley game showed. Lingard played as rightcenter #8 in 4-3-3.

whatwha · Jan 29, 2018

P-Nut0712 said:
I'm not saying it won't. But to discount all previous games against the top sides due to adding Sanchez is silly.

Agree with this. Sanchez alone won't decide games (well maybe sometimes)

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
When did I say Everton is a big game ? I said that was the last time we played with a proper midfield trio and Herrera looked good. Again tbf he played without Pogba in all these big games.

No you never said it but you made it sounds like Everton is a big game because you were talking about Mata has never started any big game for us this season, and all of sudden when I brought you the fact that Herrera has been very poor in big games, you started mentioning the Everton game when clearly it's out of the discussion. If you are only mentioning one single good game against lesser or mid table, Mata also had a good game against Leicester City.

So Lingard isn't proper midfield anymore? Not saying I disagree with you but Jose seems to consider Lingard as a midfielder now more than as an attacker after his comment recently about "five attacking players".

And you are ignoring what I just said, the main reason why he played in all of those big games were because he replaced Pogba's absence. He didn't even play against Arsenal when Pogba was available. It just doesn't make any sense if Herrera is out of question and he will definitely start this game when he's been very poor this season.

el3mel said:
Sorry but is all your problem is that I said "the only debate" ? Ok it's not if that will make you feel better so relax.

I made nice debate here to discuss about Spurs game but when you are stuck to answer now you started to get salty. Relax mate, it's just discussion, if you can't find a solution from it don't get too upset.

Damien · Jan 29, 2018

charlenefan said:
Is it? I rate Martial as much as anyone but we have options now and with Sanchez's arrival and in a big game we need to be looking beyond just getting all of our best attacking players in and look as to whether it's the best thing for the team in whole. I may be proven wrong but starting 4 attacking players in this game with Pogba and Matic as a two in midfield shows a little naivety imo

Martial has been one of the best attacking players in the league this month. Dropping him (like so many seem eager to do) is madness.

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
No you never said it but you made it sounds like Everton is a big game because you were talking about Mata has never started any big game for us this season, and all of sudden when I brought you the fact that Herrera has been very poor in big games, you started mentioning the Everton game when clearly it's out of the discussion. If you are only mentioning one single good game against lesser or mid table, Mata also had a good game against Leicester City.

So Lingard isn't proper midfield anymore? Not saying I disagree with you but Jose seems to consider Lingard as a midfielder now more than as an attacker after his comment recently about "five attacking players".

And you are ignoring what I just said, the main reason why he played in all of those big games were because he replaced Pogba's absence. He didn't even play against Arsenal when Pogba was available. It just doesn't make any sense if Herrera is out of question and he will definitely start this game when he's been very poor this season.

I made nice debate here to discuss about Spurs game but when you are stuck to answer now you started to get salty. Relax mate, it's just discussion, if you can't find a solution from it don't get too upset.

Salty ? You're repeating in every one of your post that I was wrong in saying there's one debate so if that's your only problem here then I was wrong if that will make you feel better.

If I replied on this post again I'll be repeating what I had said in my previous 2-3 posts again because you're adding nothing and I don't want to drag this any farther.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

Android1974 said:
Because we were going to that game very pessimistic, and the performance surprised us, being the first game we did some slick short passing, very much having to do with Pogba being free on the leftcenter because of Herrera's great game on the rightcenter.

Except for Newport, Tottenham don't play 3 at the back since November! If Alderweireld is back, they could revert to it, though.

I'm pretty sure remember in 1st half everyone were moaning and we only had one shot on target which is from Rojo. We only played well in 2nd half and started to do long shots more often. That wasn't the first game, in Arsenal game we also did a lot of slick short passing and very much to do with Pogba being free as well but without Herrera in XI.

Overall Everton was poor and had no intention to win that game. They sat deep and park the bus, very opposite when we played against a team who actually wanted to win.

That's my point, now that they haven't won a game against Southampton and Newport, there is also a chance that the manager wants to make a change of the formation.
When they played 3 at the back at the start, Dier was the one who played at 3, Aldeweireld injured and it was Dier, Vertonghen, Sanchez. Winks or Wanyama was the one who star in midfield instead when Dier became centre back.

peridigm · Jan 29, 2018

DDG
Valencia - Smalling - Jones - Young
Matic - Pogba
Sanchez - Lingard - Martial
Lukaku

If we need to make an early sub to take hold of midfield, take Lingard or Martial off for Herrera. None of which deserve to be dropped but we can only field 11. If Jose wants to start with 3 in MF, Martial loses out for me. Jesse loves scoring at Wembley and his work rate is better than Martial.

ThaReaper01 · Jan 29, 2018

3 in midfield. Gimme a point.

dwd · Jan 29, 2018

Paul Merson has had his say:

I watched United at Burnley and they were very efficient. They weren't really playing free-flowing attacking football and they struggled to break Burnley down. This will be a difficult game for them because I just can't see how they will outscore Spurs.

Jose Mourinho will go to Wembley and set his side up not to get beat. With Alexis Sanchez on board that little bit of extra quality gives them a big chance but if Tottenham can get their full strength side out they'll be very difficult to stop.

RedDevil@84 · Jan 29, 2018

dwd said:
Paul Merson has had his say:

The Sky calls him The Magic Man for his "bulls eye" prophesies.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
Salty ? You're repeating in every one of your post that I was wrong in saying there's one debate so if that's your only problem here then I was wrong if that will make you feel better.

From what I can tell, when someone started to get upset from the discussion, can't provide answer, and started to avoid the discussion by blaming a person for creating the discussion as an excuse, it looks to me that "someone" is being salty.

One debate wasn't the "only" problem here. It was initially but now that there are so many stuffs that we have discussed so I wanted to discuss it because it doesn't make any sense how is Herrera is out of the question and guaratee for a starter when he hasn't been playing well this season. You were mentioning one game against Everton but Mata also had good game against Leicester, so Mata can also start in this game.

And also we have been playing with Lingard in midfield three so he also has a chance likely to play ahead of Herrera.

el3mel said:
If I replied on this post again I'll be repeating what I had said in my previous 2-3 posts again because you're adding nothing and I don't want to drag this any farther.

You made it sounds like you are blaming me here just because you can't continue the discussion.

el3mel · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
From what I can tell, when someone started to get upset from the discussion, can't provide answer, and started to avoid the discussion by blaming a person for creating the discussion as an excuse, it looks to me that "someone" is being salty.

One debate wasn't the "only" problem here. It was initially but now that there are so many stuffs that we have discussed so I wanted to discuss it because it doesn't make any sense how is Herrera is out of the question and guaratee for a starter when he hasn't been playing well this season. You were mentioning one game against Everton but Mata also had good game against Leicester, so Mata can also start in this game.

And also we have been playing with Lingard in midfield three so he also has a chance likely to play ahead of Herrera.

You made it sounds like you are blaming me here just because you can't continue the discussion.

Again if that makes you feel better then Ok. I don't really care.

I said my opinion and you mentioned yours. I'm not going to drag this any farther because we'll be running into circles with nothing new to add.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

el3mel said:
Again if that makes you feel better then Ok. I don't really care.

I said my opinion and you mentioned yours. I'm not going to drag this any farther because we'll be running into circles with nothing new to add.

Really? Sounds like an excuse to me.

The Herrera, Mata, Sanchez, Lingard, Big game, Lingard in 3 man midfield, I even added more about the potential formation. Pretty sure I have added a lot of new stuffs there to discuss. Ok mate.

AltiUn · Jan 29, 2018

The term "salty" should be banned, just an easy way to throwaway dissenting opinions without giving too much thought to a counter argument.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

AltiUn said:
The term "salty" should be banned, just an easy way to throwaway dissenting opinions without giving too much thought to a counter argument.

I only called him being salty because he wanted an easy way to throwaway dissenting opinions without giving too much thought by blaming me for started the debate.

Greck · Jan 29, 2018

Valencia-Jones-Smalling-Young
Pogba-Matic-Herrera
Sanchez-Lukaku-Martial

Think we'll go 3 in midfield to stop Eriksen having it easy meaning one of Lingard or Martial will be sacrificed, likely Martial for workrate reasons.

Possible alternative: 352 with Sanchez, Martial, Lukaku and no Lingard. Pretty much similar to the Arsenal game setup with Sanchez replacing Lingard

P-Nut · Jan 29, 2018

whatwha said:
Agree with this. Sanchez alone won't decide games (well maybe sometimes)

He might decide them, but him alone won't change how we approach them

Redlyn · Jan 29, 2018

Sterling Archer said:
Most of the team picks itself. Big question is which midfield player (Jesse, Mata, Fellaini, Herrera) brings the most balance if we are in fact starting Martial, Lukaku and Sanchez up front?

I think Jesse would complement nicely, interchanging roles fluidly from central to the right with Sanchez.

Well put. I'd be happy enough with any of them really. Was leaning towards Fellaini but given how little he's played now I think Herrera. A midfield 3 would help to free up Pogba while keeping it tight. We can bring on Messe later to kick them while they are down.

Andersons Dietician · Jan 29, 2018

Was just trying to pick my team and honestly can’t decide if he’ll drop Lingard or Martial. Would have said he’ll go to a back 3 for this. He still might and Just slip Jesse in midfield/attack and have Sanchez off of Lukaku and drop Martial.

Ahhh decisions decisions. Hoping he goes 433 with Martial, Lukaku and Sanchez.
Actually might go change my team choice back to a formation for 352

RedRom · Jan 29, 2018

Would any other team have fans questioning if their manager will play their most in firm player when they are fit, healthy and ready to go?

Especially in a big match??

It literally makes no sense whatsoever to not start with Lingard, he is the prototype José player, he works hard, scores, and assists, not sure what more he could do to convince some people here of his talents.

There should be zero questions regarding his status in the team, yet it seems that some people are happy to casually drop him from the side, why deliberately try and weaken us from the off?? Strange times indeed.

whatwha · Jan 29, 2018

RedRom said:
Would any other team have fans questioning if their manager will play their most in firm player when they are fit, healthy and ready to go?

Especially in a big match??

It literally makes no sense whatsoever to not start with Lingard, he is the prototype José player, he works hard, scores, and assists, not sure what more he could do to convince some people here of his talents.

There should be zero questions regarding his status in the team, yet it seems that some people are happy to casually drop him from the side, why deliberately try and weaken us from the off?? Strange times indeed.

Give it a fecking rest

Greck · Jan 29, 2018

RedRom said:
Would any other team have fans questioning if their manager will play their most in firm player when they are fit, healthy and ready to go?

Especially in a big match??

It literally makes no sense whatsoever to not start with Lingard, he is the prototype José player, he works hard, scores, and assists, not sure what more he could do to convince some people here of his talents.

There should be zero questions regarding his status in the team, yet it seems that some people are happy to casually drop him from the side, why deliberately try and weaken us from the off?? Strange times indeed.

Give it a rest. The lineup game isn't who we think should start but who we think the manager will start. We have four on form attackers in a game the manager might decide to drop one

Devil may care · Jan 29, 2018

Damien said:
Martial has been one of the best attacking players in the league this month. Dropping him (like so many seem eager to do) is madness.

I'm certainly not eager to drop him but I do think we'll play 4-3-3 and the mop will come in, so it's going to leave one wide forward spot and I just have the feeling Sanchez will go left with Lingard right, I hope I'm wrong.

RedRom · Jan 29, 2018

whatwha said:
Give it a fecking rest

Greck said:
Give it a rest. The lineup game isn't who we think should start but who we think the manager will start. We have four on form attackers in a game the manager might decide to drop one

Fair enough, I guess we will just have to see what happens then, but for my mind it is a no brainer, he is such a Josè type player, that he will try to play him as often as possible, especially in big matches.

Plus Wembley is basically owned by Lingard, such is his past in terms of scoring important goals here, so another added reason, as if any more were needed, to play him.

Lukaku, Lingard, Martial, Pogba, and Sanchez should all start, there really should not be too much of a debate over this, they are our best attacking unit, and there isn't a reason to not do so.

RedRom · Jan 29, 2018

Devil may care said:
I'm certainly not eager to drop him but I do think we'll play 4-3-3 and the mop will come in, so it's going to leave one wide forward spot and I just have the feeling Sanchez will go left with Lingard right, I hope I'm wrong.

Presumably "the mop" is Fellaini?

No chance of him starting, especially in such a high profile match, we need to ease him back into matches, and this is not the time to do so.

Android1974 · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
I'm pretty sure remember in 1st half everyone were moaning and we only had one shot on target which is from Rojo. We only played well in 2nd half and started to do long shots more often. That wasn't the first game, in Arsenal game we also did a lot of slick short passing and very much to do with Pogba being free as well but without Herrera in XI.

This was our first game in a long while in which we “favoured short passing”. Regarding Herrera's contribution, just check the positions & passing network:

Nothing to do with our Arsenal game, just check:

Besides, I believe more each day the criteria for checking if we're playing 3 midfielders or just 2 is to see if Pogba's left or right of Matić, it checks out almost every time.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

Android1974 said:
This was our first game in a long while in which we “favoured short passing”. Regarding Herrera's contribution, just check the positions & passing network:

Nothing to do with our Arsenal game, just check:

Besides, I believe more each day the criteria for checking if we're playing 3 midfielders or just 2 is to see if Pogba's left or right of Matić, it checks out almost every time.

You are ignoring something here. Everton had no intention to win in that game, their target was draw, sat back deep & park the bus. That's why I mentioned this before since it's relevance. Playing against a team who just sit back like Everton with no intention to go forward basically allowed us to dominate the possession with that what you called "short passing".

The Arsenal game on the other hand is against a better side than Everton, their intention was to get 3 points from the start. The passmap against Arsenal sums up my point what happen if a team kept possession against a team who just sat back deep. We had a lot of slick short passings against Arsenal between Pogba, Lingard, Lukaku & Martial, and some of the link up passings were goals that we scored. Basically we were more effective in counter attack.

Against Spurs, we are likely going to rely on counter attack more than dominate possession. You won't see Spurs sits so deep and giving so much space on our players just like what Everton did. Herrera starts in this game doesn't guarantee us similar display as the Everton game

Android1974 · Jan 29, 2018

J_Red 11 said:
You are ignoring something here. Everton had no intention to win in that game, their target was draw, sat back deep & park the bus. That's why I mentioned this before since it's relevance. Playing against a team who just sit back like Everton with no intention to go forward basically allowed us to dominate the possession with that what you called "short passing".

The Arsenal game on the other hand is against a better side than Everton, their intention was to get 3 points from the start. The passmap against Arsenal sums up my point what happen if a team kept possession against a team who just sat back deep. We had a lot of slick short passings against Arsenal between Pogba, Lingard, Lukaku & Martial, and some of the link up passings were goals that we scored. Basically we were more effective in counter attack.

Against Spurs, we are likely going to rely on counter attack more than dominate possession. You won't see Spurs sits so deep and giving so much space on our players just like what Everton did. Herrera starts in this game doesn't guarantee us similar display as the Everton game

I am well aware we're not going to dominate possession against Tottenham away and that's a big difference. And that's precisely why I don't see Mata starting this, he would be a passenger. Just think the choice will be between Lingard and Herrera, both good options. If Eriksen's recovered, my guess is Herrera doing a job on him, although Eriksen usually operates through our left.

J_Red 11 · Jan 29, 2018

Android1974 said:
I am well aware we're not going to dominate possession against Tottenham away and that's a big difference. And that's precisely why I don't see Mata starting this, he would be a passenger. Just think the choice will be between Lingard and Herrera, both good options. If Eriksen's recovered, my guess is Herrera doing a job on him, although Eriksen usually operates through our left.

I don't fancy Mata to start and yes he will only be a passenger but I'm not the manager though since may be Jose prefers to keep the same XI as our recent league games. Just surprised when I saw Mata being subbed off earlier on Friday, could be the sign of him start.

Both Mata & Herrera have been poor this season, hence why I said we can't be sure that Herrera will start in this game.

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