Absolutely no chance
FA Premier League
Manchester United 0:2 Newcastle United
Old Trafford
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- Mon, 30 December 2024 @ 8:00pm GMT
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Discussion Your Lineup Prediction
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No argument from me. Id stand over what i said if we were seeing evidence of progress even while losing. Im in absolute despair at where United are now and see no way out of it to be honest
It would be the smash-and-grabbiest of smash-and-grabs.
It's not the same.
We almost never just rocked up there and trounced them. Maybe once in 20 years or something.
That’s a very valid point
rant of the year contender
You must not have seen much of Sporting then. Their windback are not much better than a couple of traffic cones when it comes to defending. Yes, they get back to add to the numbers, but dont expect much more than that.
Their first, second and third priorities are to get forward and more importantly spread the opponent's midfield horizontally, thus creating passing lanes through midfield and offer the ball over the top.
Sporting had three ways to play out of the back...
1. though the middle of midfield, which would be a problem at United because our midfielders, bar on form Mainoo, dont like receiving facing their own goal. That is where opening up the opposition horizontally comes into play - spread them wide, open passing lanes.
2. Long ball from the back to the wing backs, which is not available to us as our wing backs are too deep.
3. Upto the forward to hold up the ball, but we have no forward who can play hold up.
Amorim is not stupid - he knows his system better than we all do. There must be a reason he is preferring Maz and Dallot at wingback. For me, it is because he doesn't trust his defenders and midfielders, so would rather have more competent defenders behind the ball. We are not creating much, so maybe he changes his balance by playing more attacking wing backs.
I wish but we both know that wasnt the case.Anyone think United don’t need a number 9 immediately in this January window is literally needing to be sectioned, Kobbie was outstanding when he came on and him and Ugarte will be who we build the midfield around, however we need a left wing back and a elite number 9 in the next 7-10 days or this club will be dragged. Into a relegation fight, Ruben has had his honeymoon, he needs to start picking his best team and standing by it, that team currently does not include Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Dalot and Hojlund.
He needs to bring in a left wing back, Number 9, hope Shaw can last the til the summer and play LCB and find a couple of loan deals that have something to prove.
He needs to try some of the kids in the squad as well, Dan Gore, Jack Fletcher, Biancheri,, Shea Lacey, Muntato, Harry Amass, Chido all need to be promoted and given a game we need 18 points so the quicker Ruben understands that, the quicker he’ll be able to mould his team!
If he carries on at less than 1 point t per PL game, he’ll be sacked mid February 2025.Every week I think it can't get any worse but sure enough it does get worse. How low can this team go?
Next 2 matches will answer your question
And then a few matches after those
See your point but I don't think those things contradict themselves. Contributing against the ball does mean to be where you need to be and when there is a way to to ride the edge between keeping the opponent on their toes and prevent getting runover in specific areas, then they might as well do so. But I guess, riding that edge is one of the aspects that need quite some refinement and isn't to be expected to be taken up too fastly by for example Garnacho, whose defensive capability never stood out.
Also not too sure about your take about the positioning as too deep. There was a thread a couple of days ago based on a video pointing out, that our wingbacks, especially Dalot, move too fast too high up, taking space for others to run into while at the same time making it more difficult to be passed to. I can't tell whether it is the one or the other but in my eyes, the wingback roles emphasize the attacking weakness of more or less all our fullbacks. And that was also a problem before in different formation. The whole inverting FB stuff does only make sense, if other players then work the wide areas, which we didn't do very well. But again, thats not just due to a formation but the level of organisation (or inexistence of it)Was in the ground. That was the worst I have ever seen it. Have been a ST holder since Moyes, a truly uncomfortable experience when he was subbed.
Can’t say he didn’t deserve the hooking, because he did. Pulling apart his performance is rather moot at this point. Just part company and both move on, the company have a responsibility to the player, keep on playing him and he may never recover to playing top 5 league football
1.52 points per game last season, 1.38 when we sacked ETH, 0.88 point per game under Our new messiah Ruben Amorim ?
Maybe but I bet by February 1st a lot of fans will be thinking the same way don’t change your principles Ruben that means playing an offensive 3421 nor a nothing narrow 5221 defensive system. No goals in last 3 PL games, that’s on him, he needs to fall out with players when we have at least 30-35 points on the board, this is Man United 14th to 17th position is untenable whoever the coach is ?
I don’t disagree with any of that but a smart coach gets the results you need to make sure that you achieve your bare minimum target and you are in the PL the following season!
United fans are dismissive of the chance of going down this season, but it happened in early 70’s and it can happen again!
They were never 14th with 22 points after half the season had been played?
On what evidence? We’re going to get absolutely creamed.
Dreadful post.Yet I was called ridiculous for suggesting we could go down.
Liverpool
Southampton
Brighton
Where's the points coming from.
I’m not writing him off, I just feel that he’s getting too much playing time. He’s still not good enough and I’m affraid he’ll think he has already made it like PRashford and Lingard did, and that cannot happen. To be good enough for the first team he has to fight for it, and now he has no competition and gets away with bad perfomances every week. Starting 11 should not be a guarantee for anyone, specially not a 20 year old player who’s not nearly ready
Liverpool back then was Coutinho FC, kinda similar to you guys and Bruno. I do think Coutinho was a little bit better though.
I agree with this. I have seen instances where Dalot pushes too high, too soon, meaning the right back marks him, thus leaving no room for the forward or 10 to move into.
In most instances, I believe Amorim wants his wing backs level with the midfield two. That then leaves opposition the decision on who marks the wing back? Should it be a midfielder from their three? Or should it be one of their full backs? Whichever the opposition picks, then Amorims team would have either a mismatch or space to play a ball into. Clearly though, United are nowhere near having that technical understanding of the system.
Maybe going too high, too soon, is what Amorim fears Antony or Garnacho would do, given that is their more natural instinct as wide forwards? Maybe he thinks that is worse than his wingbacks being too deep?
But, in quicker transitional moments, you see Maz and Dalot also too slow to push on. As highlighted pre game on Sky...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-united-vs-newcastle-united.486186/post-32777117
I think this just goes to show how specalist this position is. Plus, it takes a level of understanding from others on the pitch on how to play the system.
I was taken to my first game when I was two in 77 (obviously I don’t remember it) but I do remember games from 7 onwards. And I’ve followed my club since, through good and bad times (as you should.) I have felt a little sorry for my son seeing us play as badly as we have. Not so much the losses, he has pointed out that players aren’t trying, and that he s seen players at lesser clubs try harder.
Let’s see how this ages in next 5/6 weeks, we can get worse and currently Ruben has made us worse than under RVN and ETH, he needs to learn there is a , time and place, I don’t blame him, I blame the clowns like Berrada, Wilcox, Brailsfird and Sir Jim, who clearly don’t know what they are doing, they will make United like Nice, a terrible yo yo drab football side or maybe like Lausanne Sport who were relegated with INEOS in 21/22 season, they have form.
I don’t doubt Ruben is a bright young coach but he’s unproven in the EPL and has already compromised his formation and his principles playing a drab 5221 not an offensive all action 3421. He’s becoming the modern day Tinker Man!
If and it’s no longer an if, he potentially loses 8 games in the PL out of his first 13 PL games with 3 wins 2 draws and 8 defeats then that’s 11 points from 13 matches played and the club would have 26 points from 24 games, he’s sacked, not because I want it, far from it, no because he’s not read the room correctly and SJR is someone who just blows a gasket at every hiccup and likes sacking coaches, check out Nice! Ruben said and I Quote; ”You have to win games to win time!”
Well he’s not wining games so he’s losing Time?
So in all competitions he could easily have lost 10 or 11 games in his first 19 including Europa and FA Cup that’s more than enough games to sack someone if they are a Man United Coach losing 58% of his matches is untenable if he wants to see out the season he needs to make sure the club goes deep in Europa league and has achieved 40 points very quickly in EPL.
Now surely you agree with that or maybe you think it’s ok for him to lose another 10 PL games from the next 19 win 4 draw 5 and finish with.39 points narrowly missing out on relegation in 16-17th spot?
Because if he does t change and change quickly, he will lose another 10 PL games at the very least, playing with defensive wing backs in a narrow 5221 that has no pace to counter, the fact that he won’t change his system will mean he becomes the next Villas Boas.
He can play 343 or 3421 but he needs to make them a more effective attacking unit, right now his team doesn’t look like it could score 1 goal in 360 minutes?
Southampton are looking at us as their best chance of a win this season.
It is not Amorim letting us down, it is these players. 650mil spent by ETH and not one player you would want to build a team around. He bought two forwards that cant even hold the ball up. Two midfielders with no legs. A short center back. A clown keeper. He created a circus and this is Amorims fault?
You cant see they cant even do the basics. There is not one of them that a Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa, Arsenal, City or even Newcastle would be in for if they were all transfer listed tomorrow.
I trust Amorim knows more about his system than we do, so if he feels Maz and Dallot are his best options at wing back i trust there is a reason why. For me, i suspect it is to cover for other inefficiencies in the team.
It is painful now, but i trust in his long term vision, which likely wont involve many of these players. His Sporting teams, that he rebuilt a few times after Europes best kept taking his players, were excellent.
I would much rather have Amorim rip the band aid of this team and reval the weakness, than let us limp on year after year in the Europa league.
And lets not talk about RVN. He got to play a couple of dog shit teams and had 1 points for LCFC in 7 games. He wont last the season.Last edited by a moderator:
it's barely ever passed to him. as all commentators have said, he's feeding off scraps. at best it's hammered towards him when his marked by two people
Excellant post.
I can agree they don't use him to his strenght (attacking the channel) but he's been passed into quite a bit with his back to the goal and he got eaten up by Schar/lost the ball through bad touches quite often.
He loses the ball far too easily, and while he makes great runs he's let down by his team mates not giving him enough service. It's not all his fault, but I'm not convinced he's got a future here
Agreed, but there are about 15 players who have priority in leaving over him.
We are in really big trouble as a club. So much terrible business has been done. The new contract for Rashford, Shaw (and Martial before), the signings of Casemiro, Eriksen, Hojlund, Antony, Mount for big money (in contract and/or fee)..
I think you’ll find that RVN with incomings this January will do ok, maybe one space above or below us when things settle.
My point is RVN would have kept this United side 8th -12th to the end of the season, then appoint Ruben Amorim with the potential to bring in 4 or 5 players and let him have a full Pre Season to drill the players, the Senior Management and Idiots who run this club thought they had the ‘Golden Goose’ who would miraculously get top 4 from a position of 12th with only 15points from 11 PL games, Berrada and Brailsford who both know very little about Football and Football Players probably extrapolated that if you multiply 2 points by 27 games that’s another 54 that Ruben would get, guaranteeing them 69 points, top 5 and CL football.
Dan Ashworth right now is looking like the smart guy in all this bar his ridiculous risky signing of Zirkzee, his philosophy was patience and then to instal a period of gradual improvement, SJR and Berrada are spurring nonsense about wining the EPL in 2028 when 2 maybe 3 of our current squad are good enough for a Top 4/5 squad let alone Champions.
Omar Berrada has no experience at CEO, no actual experience of football players but has a database, if he and Brailsford had a clue, they would have looked to stabilise top 8, improve maybe to top 6 from last season rather than thinking Hojlund, Antony, Zirkzee, Amad, Rashford, Garnaucho are adequate options in attack for a top 15 PL side, let alone a top 6.
You can’t change 4 or 5 of those 6 in one window but you can keep the best two, replace two in January and then replace the final two in the summer.
Wilcox and Berrada should be saying right now we need to sell/Loan; Antony, Zirkzee and Garnaucho in January. Even if we have to sell them at significant losses of £15m, £25m and £50m that’s £90m that can be used to reinvest added to the £30m we probably have.
We lack a left footed Number 10/SS
Solution - Go buy Brian Mbeumo at £50m
We lack a genuine number 9 - Go get Osimhen or Gyokeres at £60m, both these two deals should be done in January with a left wing back maybe we should buy Nunes and loan Chillwell from Chelsea.
In the Summer you get rid of M Mount £25m and Rashford £45m and go buy M Cunha for £70-75m. You get rid of Casemiro, Eriksen saving £525k per week and go buy Ederson from Atlanta for £50m and Angel Gomes for free. This is what so called ‘Best in Class’ Management and Directors do?
So let me be clear here, I don’t blame or doubt Amorim is not a great young coach, no my issues are with the current running of the club and the ‘Too Many Chiefs Syndrome’ and INEOS generally being completely incompetent, so much so, they have made the Glazers look they were really not that bad as owners previously, that’s how poorly INEOS are Messing up right now!
Funny enough if we went 433 or 4231 with Onana, Mazraoui, Maguire, MDL, L Martinez
M Ugarte, K Mainoo, Bruno, Amad, R Hojlund, Rashford we might get 4 or 6 points out of those three games as two are at home, we need a couple of wins asap and I feel that Wilcox will tell him he has to play 4231 or 433 or he’ll be under huge pressure.
We won't because that means going back to being 7th or 8th or god forbid 6th and we don't want that. We want to be 14th.
Lets put some money on that? United will not finish only "one space" away from LCFC.
Like what evidence do you have to back this up? Absolutely zero, so what is even the point in saying it? It really is crystal ball stuff.
RVN got 3 wins against 3 dog dirt teams - two against LCFC. Give him the job until the summer and it could go anyway.
Especially with these weak willed players knowing he only had a short stay. You think when the going got tough they would dig in for Ruud knowing he was gone in May anyway? We know their mindset. We know they would mail it in knowing they would get a french chance when the "real manager" comes in over the summer. History suggests this.
Oh, so Berrada is an idiot for believing that Amorim had the potential to improve our league position?
So would you say the comments from this guy are equally idiotic?.....
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rub...-sporting-release-clause.485329/post-32571950
We don't know what calculations Berrada did. But we do know you did your own math and came to the conclusion that the club "had to act now to give him a chance of achieving something in this season".
But now you are saying that RVN should have been kept on as caretaker and would have got us 8th to 12th? So one minute you're using your crystal ball to project what may have been, the next you are using hindsight to call Berrada an idiot for doing exactly what you were advocating for.
Make is make sense man!
What are you talking about Ashworth being the "smart guy". His philosophy was to keep ETH and advocated for Southgate to replace him. And if Zirkzee was his one signing, then he had a 100% failure rate.
And i'm not sure why you are bad mouthing Berrada and Wilcox? Very inconsistent with previous comments....
Im not going to pull at the receipts of you saying how good Wilcox and Berrada would be, because quite frankly, i would need to ask the Caf to buy more data storage space!
So the "Too Many Chiefs Syndrome" has partly been resolved by removing Ashworth. If they felt he was a spare cog, best to cut ties. Employing Ashworth before Berrada was a big mistake.
On the footballing side, for me, the big mistake that was made was keeping ETH and further backing him. By all accounts, that was an Ashworth call. It cost the club millions and set us back a long way.
Yes, Amorim plays a different system than other coaches, but as you point out, only 3 or 4 players at best are good enough to help us move into a CL place. That would apply to a 3421 system, just as much as it would a 433. You have seen that some of this lot can't do the basics right now, so how relevant is the formation and system really?
So with that in mind, if the club believe in Amorim and think he is the best manager for MUFC, then he was the right appointment. No point in taking second best just because he may play a similar system to the last guy, when you think you need to replace most of the team anyway.
No evidence. That's why I said 'something daft'.- Status
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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11%
Amad Diallo
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6%
Harry Maguire
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3%
Joshua Zirkzee
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3%
Leny Yoro
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2%
Noussair Mazraoui
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1%
Rasmus Hojlund
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1%
Andre Onana
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1%
Diogo Dalot
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1%
Matthijs de Ligt
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1%
Casemiro
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1%
Antony
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1%
Christian Eriksen
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 211 ratings.
Score Predictions
56,126,22
- Man Utd win
- Newcastle win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 18% Man Utd 0:3 Newcastle
- 16% Man Utd 2:1 Newcastle
- 12% Man Utd 0:2 Newcastle
- 12% Man Utd 1:3 Newcastle
- 8% Man Utd 1:2 Newcastle
- 6% Man Utd 0:4 Newcastle
- 5% Man Utd 1:1 Newcastle
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 3:1 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 3:2 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 0:0 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 3:0 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 2:0 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 0:9 Newcastle
- 1% Man Utd 1:0 Newcastle
- 1% Man Utd 1:4 Newcastle
- 1% Man Utd 4:3 Newcastle
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 4:1 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 0:1 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 2:3 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 2:5 Newcastle
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Newcastle
- Overall possession
- 52.7% 47.3%
- Shots
- 10 12
- Shots on target
- 1 4
- Total touches in the box
- 17 19
- Goalkeeper saves
- 2 0
- Fouls
- 13 8
- Corners
- 2 3
Referee
Simon Hooper
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Antony
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replaced by Leny Yoro
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replaced by Alejandro Garnacho
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replaced by Kobbie Mainoo
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