Team's don't fight for trophies any more, squads do.
Would Young improve our squad is the question, and I think he would. Beyond that I don't give a shit how much the club pay for him, if SAF wants him and thinks he's worth the fee then do it.
A. Young | Guardian: Medical today
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Team's don't fight for trophies any more, squads do.
Would Young improve our squad is the question, and I think he would. Beyond that I don't give a shit how much the club pay for him, if SAF wants him and thinks he's worth the fee then do it.
I would argue he is significantly better 'out wide' than the majority of those you mention, therefore strengthening our squad.
Of the players you just named, 3 are natural wide players who can play there with any regularity.
If Rooney, Fletcher or Welbeck were selected to play on the wing I reckon you'd be posting in the match thread at what an error it was on SAF's part, and yet here you are saying we don't need any depth adding to our wide players because players who don't naturally play there can play there.
This is my irk about the Young transfer as well to be honest. I've said for the last couple of seasons that although our squad is better than our rivals', our first XI is "only" arguably as strong, if not slightly weaker (particularly central midfield).
It is for this reason that I believed we'd be signing a few "first team" players this window (in the ilk of Sneijder/Schweinstieger).
The only reason I can see us signing someone like Young is if the squad is being trimmed: ie one or two of our attacking midfield/wing options are being let go (eg Berbatov, Obertan, Cleverley, Welbeck etc).
We don't need to strengthen our squad with more wide players.
Barcelona could sign him to strengthen their squad, it doesn't mean they should.
Our squad is good enough for now. We have other priorities - Central Midfield. We have to see to those priorities first before concentrating on other areas.
It's like saying let's sign Benzema, another defender and another full back just because they'll improve our squad. Then after we sign these 3, then we look at our most pressing area.
Im 100% for us signing Young, I think he is a good addition. And better than some here would give him credit.
I just, after all the fuss about value, dont want us to pay way over the odds.
I just, after all the fuss about value, dont want us to pay way over the odds.
Why not?
It's a good smoke screen for any tentative moves we may be making for central midfielders, whom we can be fairly sure teams like shitty and chelseamen will attempt to derail.
In saying this he's a quality addition to the squad, it's a squad game, blah blah.
In saying this he's a quality addition to the squad, it's a squad game, blah blah.
I count four who can play there naturally, and have done for a number of years. Beyond that, you have players who can stand in as a bonus...fecking loads of them in fact. We struggle to give all of them games as it is.
Should we spend big money on a centreback who's not any better than a few of the ones we have, just because only four player can play there "natrually"?
How about a few hundred more right fullbacks? We've only got four people who can naturally play there at the moment.
As was pointed out recently, the chronological order in which we complete signings probably isn't the order in which Fergie addresses them.
And what makes you think that any barganing we do attempt in signing a central midfielder is directly related to the fee paid for Young? In other words, why does spending 20m on him categorically mean we have "lesser" to spend on someone else? Is it not possible that whatever money we end up spending on Young is within the dedicated budget we'd set ourselves to spend on that particular signing?
We've already covered this, though. For some reason you can't grasp this point. You've previously shown yourself to have an amazing ability to miss the obvious, so I'll stop wasting my time and leave it at that.
Can we all not just wait for the transfer to go through and then have an endless argument about the confirmed price?
I assume your 4th is Giggs? Who is playing more centrally now and I don't see being able to run up and down a wing with any great frequency, which was why I added 'with regularity' in my last post.
The rest of your post is frankly just facetious, it's not unreasonable to want to have 4 'proper' wing players in your squad. When Valencia and Park were both out of the picture we looked very bloody thin in that department. The addition of Young makes sense.
Giggs will play a lot less next season and probably retire next summer. Giggs mainly played on the wing this season and was heavily relied upon in that position, especially in the early part of the season.
Glad to see you have so much faith in Obertan, Bebe or Fletcher to take his place in the squad as one of our four main wingers but if we do sign Young, I'd imagine it's because Fergie has his doubts.
Welbeck's long-term future is through the centre and feck knows where Cleverley will end up. If he stays at United, though, he'll probably be a central midfielder.
Maybe Fergie is signing him to play behind the striker, not on the wing? Only reason I can see it (although even then it's not as if we are short).
Capello said that Young's best position is not on the wing
I also think we have to consider Sir Alex loves players who have the determination to win and succeed at the highlest level, nothing quite like a player who feels he has something to prove when they already obviously have talent. United will offer that stage to Young.
I imagine Obertan and Bebe will be loaned out soon-ish, Giggs won't play half as much, plus Young is versatile and English.
I think for in or around the £15 million mark, this more than makes sense.
I imagine Obertan and Bebe will be loaned out soon-ish, Giggs won't play half as much, plus Young is versatile and English.
I think for in or around the £15 million mark, this more than makes sense.
I don't understand comments like this. You know shit all about where SAF and Gill's priorities lie or what work they've been doing to satisfy the needs of the club; you have no experience negotiating transfers (with the likely exception of on FM) and haven't got a clue as to what the scouting, financial, legal and management teams are up to behind the scenes. And yet here you are, moaning and whinging as if you've just been handed a full and detailed report of our ongoing negotiations which you've cast your expert eyes over and found not to be to your satisfaction. How can anyone qualify a comment like 'We need to see to those priorities first before concentrating on other areas' given all of ours' almost total ignorance to the situation?
Capello also gave a very positive assessment of his squad, particularly Aston Villa's Ashley Young who once again showed he is one of the most improved players around. "All the players played well," observed the England coach. "But Ashley Young is one of the most interesting players this season."
Rather than be restricted to the wing, where he has spent most of his career, Young has been released into more central positions at Aston Villa this season. Capello has seen how effective the 25-year-old has been and has followed Gérard Houllier's lead, resulting in Young's best three England displays all coming in 2011.
"In this position he is free," said Capello. "His movement on the pitch is really good at all times. He is a danger when he receives the ball because technically, his vision on the pitch is excellent."
Fabio Capello confident in Ashley Young and Jack Wilshere for England | Football | guardian.co.uk
Rather than be restricted to the wing, where he has spent most of his career, Young has been released into more central positions at Aston Villa this season. Capello has seen how effective the 25-year-old has been and has followed Gérard Houllier's lead, resulting in Young's best three England displays all coming in 2011.
"In this position he is free," said Capello. "His movement on the pitch is really good at all times. He is a danger when he receives the ball because technically, his vision on the pitch is excellent."
Fabio Capello confident in Ashley Young and Jack Wilshere for England | Football | guardian.co.uk
Because how it works is you have a budget, you get whatever targets you want in that budget. If your one of you target costs more, you have lesser for your other targets. As simple as that.
But you seem to be ignoring my point that the higher we inflate young's value (seriously 20 mil for a player who has one year left on his contract), the lesser our budget will cater for a central midfielder. But carry on spouting rubbish.
From which we can categorically conclude that his best position is on the wing.
I have to say I find it a bit funny people are OK with this deal at 15m and are furious at 20m. Aside from the fact I don't know why so many rush to believe the papers, I doubt 5m would make a massive difference.
Obviously I'm hoping for as low a fee as possible, we'd all like to see our club pays as little as possible, but if Fergie wants a winger than it's an excellent choice. And while a winger is not one of the two priorities (keeper and a midfielder), you can see why it's at number 3. Wings are vital for our attacking play and with all due respect to the names mentioned, we shouldn't be relying on lads who haven't shown much when given the chance, or ones who aren't even wingers. Rooney should not be moved to the wing ever again.
Obviously I'm hoping for as low a fee as possible, we'd all like to see our club pays as little as possible, but if Fergie wants a winger than it's an excellent choice. And while a winger is not one of the two priorities (keeper and a midfielder), you can see why it's at number 3. Wings are vital for our attacking play and with all due respect to the names mentioned, we shouldn't be relying on lads who haven't shown much when given the chance, or ones who aren't even wingers. Rooney should not be moved to the wing ever again.
Good post/summation
He is one of the best managers in the world, you knob.
It's a basic fact of how things work. You do things according to priorities. If you have a crack in the wall that's leaking water, do you see to that first before spending on another less important issue.
Capello was a big failure with England, but that does not mean he doesn't recognize a quality player
But you seem to be ignoring common sense by not understanding that SAF wouldn't jepardize an important transfer by paying too much for another target. His will have his number ONE priority and I very much doubt that will be Ashley Young.
I totally agree (although I think Capello is a moron). It'd still raise some questions though: with Rooney, Berbatov, Giggs (and Anderson at Porto) all being able to play behind behind the striker.
1. Do you know what the United transfer budget totals?
2. Do you definitively know who United's targets actually are?
3. Do you definitively know how much easy transfer target will actually cost?
Until you can answer yes to those three questions (which will never happen) your point is without merit.
It was a joke cock nose.
Capello was a big failure with England, but that does not mean he doesn't recognize a quality player
Pffffffttttt. Qualified for the World Cup with ease, and looks on course to make the Euros. Hardly a failure, considering the turd he has to polish. It has already proved beyond a few other managers.
I'll say it again, the chronological order in which we complete signings probably isn't the order in which Fergie addresses them.
Yeah, and Rio doesn't play regularly anymore due to his back. We should sign Matt Dawson as squad cover...
Seriously, if Young was that good, or actually young, it'd make sense. He's neither. Just another number on the list in a position which is far from our weak point. Though no doubt the idea of signing him means his ability as a player has doubled overnight in the eyes of the majority of the caf...which would make him just about good enough to play in place of Nani now and again, somewhat pointlessly.
When do we get to the arguable point that Young isn't even a natural wide player anyway? Actually, it'd make slightly more sense if we were signing him to replace Berbatov, but that still doesn't make very much sense.
What a poor misunderstanding of football transfers, we're not repairing a house here.It look like Ashley Young is the first transfer that can be sorted due to his contract situation, other transfers are much more difficult and take longer. If SAF wants Young should he just risk losing him by waiting until he has wrapped up his number 1 target? don't be so silly.
As I mentioned earlier, if SAF wants a central midfielder and has targets in mind, he will NOT jeopardize it by paying over the odds for Young.
I just spent two hours scouring the house for an important document. I thought it would be wise to put it somewhere out of the way, for safe keeping. Then I promptly forgot where I put it.
Cut me some slack, man. I'm frustrated here.
Ok you have a point - I was a bit too harsh. To be honest, considering everything, i can see no manager being successful while in charge of the English national team with the FA being such an amateurish organisation.
I'm not ignoring any point. I've addressed it twice already. As per normal when discussing football with you, the issue here is your failure to grasp my point (or anyone else's).
For the last time, Fergie will have been allocated specific, ring-fenced funds to spend on strengthening specific areas of the squad, identified and agreed with Gill long in advance. There doesn't have to be any direct correlation between what we spend on one player and what is available to spend on another. Apparently there's over 100m cash reserves in the club at the moment. Do you think this will all get spent this summer?
As you say, I was specific. No idea why you still have questions
If he was on a long contract I'd pay £18 million. Thats less than £18.5m or £19m just fyi
With a short time left on his contract I wouldnt pay that
If you have several problems of equal importance and urgency then you attack all of these problems at once. Depending on the progress of each problem, you resolve which ever is progressing best and then tackle the remaining next.
United have a total budget for all the players they want to purchase and are working on each at the same time to resolve the details of each purchase to both their financial and the type of player they can get needs (hope that makes sense).
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