He doesn't know what the plan is, but he certainly doesn't like it either.
'I want instant gratification or another Dutch coach, waah waah waah'.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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He doesn't know what the plan is, but he certainly doesn't like it either.
'I want instant gratification or another Dutch coach, waah waah waah'.
Possibly, but I don't believe he has had enough time to judge and to be honest if they sack him they should also sack whoever had the main say in hiring him (Berreda?) because hiring a coach that requires such massive change and knowing you can't afford that change is pure incompetence .
That’s a worry for me too. I can’t remember the last quality and constructed goal we scored.
Yes though not all the drinkers left, Bryan Robson was one of those who stayed
It was a strange time because we had some really good players but we also had some that really weren't, on balance I'd say we under-performed after the 2nd place finish, we should have been better with the players we had than we were
That's a different point and I tend to disagree because people make mistakes, especially in sport. There isn't a single successful club that doesn't have a blunder on his record, just look at the past 15 years every single top club has had one or multiple big misjudgements. The most important thing isn't to pretend to be flawless but to recognize your mistakes quickly and fix them as quickly. Now the question is whether Amorim is a mistake, if he is the club need to act and replace him and if they believe that he isn't then they can give him more time.
The mistakes at this club have been profound. That said many people have already lost their jobs both at management level and now regular workers with all the redundancies so that is the result of 15 years of incompetence (the rot started before Ferguson left). We are the furthest thing from flawless you can imagine and arguably the worst run football club in the world.
We have gone from Disneyland and "We can do things other clubs can only dream of" to supposedly being close bankruptcy. Whether this is the external message they want to portray to negotiate a better position in transfers ("We're broke we can only afford X!") or the reality only time will tell.
Regarding Amorim specifically I don't think the body of evidence is big enough to say whether a mistake has been made. It is not the same as the retaining Ten Hag scenario where over 2 years of evidence it was clear he wasn't the right guy and why his contract was extended is another mystery of incompetence that only our management could have rationalised.
In this case the new management who have just replaced the old management have come and said "this is our guy" and they will look even more incompetent than they already look if they don't back him and give him a preseason and part of next season to turn this around.
« Do you want Mbappé Carlo ? »
« Who is that guy ? »
« You know one of the best player in the World. »
« Ah, Yeah, I will take him, we only won the CL last year, maybe he can help, thanks. »
Robson was given the opportunity to stay, I think he was one who made a genuine effort to change his approach. Also, SAF could not afford to lose him at that time. The likes of McGrath and Whiteside struggled with injury anyway, do they were easier targets.
I remember Kevin Moran on the radio saying SAF told him he wasn't needed, because he was too old and too short to play CB for him. SAF went and signed Mal Donaghy who was only a year younger and shorter than he was. He just wanted him gone.
Bored of Amorim already. Complete ideologue who will hide behind the "system" and eventually will blame the players once he goes. Don't like his face and don't trust him.
United is such a mess. The club desperately needs to let go of the past, starting with a new stadium and letting go of Fergusonism. The talking heads on all the boring podcasts harping on about personalities and back in our day etc don't help either.
United is such a mess. The club desperately needs to let go of the past, starting with a new stadium and letting go of Fergusonism. The talking heads on all the boring podcasts harping on about personalities and back in our day etc don't help either.
Van Gaal face was the best.
All of that is beside the point. You made a point about the financial situation of the club and I stated that the point you made is only correct if you believe that Amorim is going to do a better or comparable job to any successor because the hard fact is that the financial situation is tied to our performances in the league and in continental cups. Forget about Amorim or United, the financial repercussion of sacking a manager isn't really about his compensation and more about how much the club could gain with better performances, as an illustration in the PL alone last season Everton(15th) got 19m less money than United(8th) when it comes to merit payments. The gap is larger with continental competitions and higher rankings and it easily covers any losses that you made when you sacked your manager.
My point being that if you have good reason to not believe in your manager than the financially prudent move is to sack him, it's not to give him more time and back him up. What you are suggesting has merit from a Football standpoint but it is not financially sound, not with the way money is made in Football. Also no decision should be based on how it makes a previous decision look like, that kind of mindset only serves your ego for a minute but it's not good for the club or yourself.
TBH I'm not entirely sure whether Robbo changed his ways that much, I used to see hm and Peter Reid out on the sauce at Benny's/Robson's Piano Bar which he co-owned pretty regularly - I lived round there in thse days but I can't recall exactly what years I would have seen them
Never understood the Mal Donaghy signing, it made no sense at all!
Ipswich
Fulham
Sociedad
Feels like a really big week ahead. Bit nervous about tonight actually ...and I really shouldn't be saying that for a home fixture against Ipswich but that's where we are these days.
Fulham
Sociedad
Feels like a really big week ahead. Bit nervous about tonight actually ...and I really shouldn't be saying that for a home fixture against Ipswich but that's where we are these days.
I get why he wasn't sacked during last season because of the ownership situation. But there was zero excuse to back him in the summer.
Murtough had brought him in but at that point didn't likely have the authority to sack him with Arnold and himself facing the chop.
Ive seen him perform for us and Portugal. Think he's lost at the moment.
Agreed. ETH got way too much leeway in getting the players he wanted which lead to us getting a crocked Mount and an underwhelming Antony after we'd already decided to end negotiations for him.
We can't let that happen again. As with Branthwaite last summer, if we have alternatives go for them unless it's a player on the levels of Kane, Salah, Mbappe, etc.
Indeed we have, I think he's mentally drained, he's been basically played non-stop for 2-3 years, he needs a proper break
Genuinely nice guy. Spends time with the fans even though we’re in bad form and I’m sure he needs as much match preparation as possible.
Robbo had a 2 day rule apparently. Never drank 2 days before a game.
I remember a few years ago he said Ole should take the lads down the pub for a team bonding session, let them get drunk and air their grievances and let them sort their own shit out.
Agree about the he didn't want to come thing. Yes it was the better decision for him to come in the summer but no one forced him to make the move.
He was naive. He should have backed himself and believed that he would have been able to get another big club to come in for him. Looks like Liverpool and West Ham ending their interest in him last summer spooked him. Now or never was not a realistic threat. Look at how often Mbappe spurned Real Madrid but they still signed him because he knew he was him.
His recent quotes linking the talk of redundancies to our on the field performances are absurd.
For a start, our current financial situation is down to the Glazers and the debt they have saddled us with, coupled with suicidal mismanagement of every aspect of the club (especially transfers and contracts) - also enabled by the Glazers.
The poor results hardly help, missing out on CL money etc. but it's hardly the key factor. Besides, even if it was does he think this is the best way to get a tune out of the players?
I really want him to succeed but he needs to learn to better how to handle the media. What seemed like a strength (his honest or transparency or however you want to frame it) is actually one of his biggest weaknesses as a man manager.
For a start, our current financial situation is down to the Glazers and the debt they have saddled us with, coupled with suicidal mismanagement of every aspect of the club (especially transfers and contracts) - also enabled by the Glazers.
The poor results hardly help, missing out on CL money etc. but it's hardly the key factor. Besides, even if it was does he think this is the best way to get a tune out of the players?
I really want him to succeed but he needs to learn to better how to handle the media. What seemed like a strength (his honest or transparency or however you want to frame it) is actually one of his biggest weaknesses as a man manager.
Agreed, or he should have called our bluff and not been strong-armed - we almost certainly would have waited for him. Who else did we have lined up?
Or how about maybe he and the club could have come to an agreement for him to take over at the end of the season? It's astonishing that both parties thought a mid season takeover would have been anything but a disaster.
I'm not debating the quality of England vs Italy really. The point was how crap Serie A is that Lukaku and McTominay are doing well there yet both of those players performed well in England so it's a ridiculous point anyway. They were good players in England and also good players in Italy.
Even players in league 1 or 2 score goals, whenever they are. So it doesn't mean much.
Last Italian team to win UCL was in 2010. Some 15 years ago. In that period only 3 times has Italian team be in UCL final.
In that same 15 year period, there has been 2 English finals ( Spurs vs Liverpool, City vs Chelsea. ) thats is 4 times alone. In comparison 9 times has EPL teams been in UCL finals since 2010
Italian league is not up there anymore. Premier League is very very competitive
He's not performed for us for over a year.
Sick and tired of these types of players who just go on extended low patches. I look at his up and down form in a United shirt and see part of the problem.
He's not singled out though, all players at United are not playing to their level. Literally everyone currently is playing below their ability. It speaks to me of a much deeper issue.
Mazraoui looked like a potential signing of the season, has completely faded away under Amorim. Bruno is quite good, but nowhere near the talisman he is for Portugal, magical. Everything is down here.
Maz as a third center back has been fine consistently. He's just not a wingback and he never was.
Hojlund was never at the right level and the rest is about where we expect. They're either burnt out or not good enough. Dalot is an example of the latter.
LVG was a bit of a nut job but a very successful one: 3 time champions league finalist (winner with Ajax) and league titles and trophies in 4 different leagues. One of our most dominant displays at Anfield and other big results under his management plus the FA cup, Amorim doesn’t even compare.
Me too.
There was a time when new manager bounce was new manager , squad mood improves and team results improves.
Now there’s a ridiculous amount of focus on Tactics by barstool managers. Football is a simple sport over complicated by faux analysis.
A manager who gets on with his players will do better than a quality manager who doesn’t , regardless of tactics. A manager with a quality personality will possibly do better than a manager with unbelievable knowledge and a bad personality.
You can find many examples of lessor managers doing well or ok with squads.
This idea that this squad is this bad and this is as good as it could be is nonsense. People wrapping themselves in knots trying to point out that 8th last season was effectively 15th or something is stupid gymnastics.
I think this squad could absolutely be in the mix for top 4 given how tight it is up there. But the club/managers decision to play my way or highway is a big part of the problem. I’m confident a manager could have come in and done better this season. I understand that this is the strategy and am ok with a longer term plan if this is seen as a better longer term solution, but don’t for a second believe the nonsense that this is absolutely the way the season was always gonna go.
I remember when you could see some teams regularly change formations , even have 2 in a game. Why is it so hard for modern footballers to apparently shift into a different one ? Sure they probably play in a different one for their international teams!!
It's wine bars and nightclubs, a regular pub would be a hell of a culture shock to them L.O.L
My Dad's friend ran a pub around Wilmslow back in them days he used to get them all in drinking even in the 90's he used to get Keano and them lads in when they were able to have a few pints now and then
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The drinking didn't stop until much later, however the '2-day rule" I think was observed by the vast majority which certainly wasn't the case in previous decades
I have no confidence there is a good plan based on how things are going.
I think the good plan went out the window and we did a reset with Amorim.
My debate was, Inter playing a 3 man defence with attacking power might be explained by the Italian league being not very strong. In that you can attack more because the opposition lacks world class attack.
Also this was my theory for Sporting being attacking in Portugal. In England balance is key, too attacking you will leak goals, you become defensive you wont win games.
So what’s Amorim style or system ? All our players are internationals and coming from decent teams . How hard is to teach them to play faster , not to pass backwards all the time etc
Fans are not the only ones who believe in the new manager bounce.
Change in tactical setup or not, I can hardly believe the directors foresaw this negative turn in results and performances.
If it continues, then I think it is a matter of Amorim keeping the dressing room. If the players lose faith in results possibly improving, then there is a "valid" reason to sack him even after promoting the long term view.
If there is no improvement in the tactical understanding and fluidity of play, then one has to wonder whether a full pre-season will help. Seeing as there is little chance of Amorim getting many new players. There will also be some injured players returning, but one would do best not to count them as not to jinx the already jinxed.
Change in tactical setup or not, I can hardly believe the directors foresaw this negative turn in results and performances.
If it continues, then I think it is a matter of Amorim keeping the dressing room. If the players lose faith in results possibly improving, then there is a "valid" reason to sack him even after promoting the long term view.
If there is no improvement in the tactical understanding and fluidity of play, then one has to wonder whether a full pre-season will help. Seeing as there is little chance of Amorim getting many new players. There will also be some injured players returning, but one would do best not to count them as not to jinx the already jinxed.
Have you watched these players before Amorim?
…. & yet two Premier League titles have been won using it.
Weeks of uninterrupted training and friendlies can do absolute wonders to developing understanding and developing fluidity.
Pretty amazing that Conte switched to a 343 mid game vs Arsenal and Chelsea then would win 13 games on the bounce. The change was instant.
One of the most fascinating things about Antonio Conte and Chelsea’s 2016-17 Premier League title win was that it was practically a direct result of a change in formation. Conte imposed a system and style of play upon his players and utilizing this system and style, the players performed to extreme heights and won the league. They did it with two holding players though, Kante was world class. And a world class centre forward in Costa, bullied every centreback in the league. Could probably put Azpilicata and Luiz in that bracket too along with Hazard. Everybody else worked hard, gave their all. Pedro could give most teams problems with his directness. How many of our current players could get into that team. None
Victor Moses would walk into this team.Pretty amazing that Conte switched to a 343 mid game vs Arsenal and Chelsea then would win 13 games on the bounce. The change was instant.
One of the most fascinating things about Antonio Conte and Chelsea’s 2016-17 Premier League title win was that it was practically a direct result of a change in formation. Conte imposed a system and style of play upon his players and utilizing this system and style, the players performed to extreme heights and won the league. They did it with two holding players though, Kante was world class. And a world class centre forward in Costa, bullied every centreback in the league. Could probably put Azpilicata and Luiz in that bracket too along with Hazard. Everybody else worked hard, gave their all. Pedro could give most teams problems with his directness. How many of our current players could get into that team. None