Yeah his hold up play is very poor. It's not necessarily the system but the players just maybe not good enough - Hojlund being one of them right now.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Obviously, Amorim needs to be a little more flexible. An all or nothing style shouldn't be for a big club like Manchester United. The average EPL team is able to appoint a host of technical staff to study, direct and counter any rigid formation. Fluidity is key in every winning formation. I truly held Amorim in higher esteem, especially after thrashing City in the UCL, however most didn't know City was at the onset of a terrible slump.
Hojlund needs to up his game, however he's a young lad. He needs all the support he can get. This is a critical period in his career, the system he plays in can make or mar him. 3421 is not the most popular formation out there, it definitely looks more difficult to adapt to than the familiar 4231 or 433.
Exactly, top players score and get chances wherever they go, regardless of the system.
Spurs used to finish all over the place, different managers but there was one constant, Harry Kane in the Golden boot conversation.
How can fans blame the system when it feels like playing with 9 men ? Hojlund gives the ball to the opposition at every given opportunity, his hold up play is probably one of the worst I have ever seen.
I'm aware of that, but I'm kind of saying that it's ironic that we actually maybe need that kind of signing now, even more so than back then because at least we had players like Martial, Rashford and Mata in the squad who were chipping in with goals. Right now we have have Amad, and even he's fallen off since his hattrick.
Our whole attack is rubbish, well we had Rashford this season too. Its just one of those things, we have to let it get really bad for it to improve.
Personally, I think this is for the better, give Hojlund and Zirkzee the chance to prove themselves and then get rid of them or at least one in the summer.
Otherwise, we would get an experienced ST and everyone will be like the other 2 can learn of him etc... like how fans reacted to RVN joining the coaching staff. Then the experienced striker leaves and we are in the same situation, which is what has happened in the past.
Get rid of non performing players and get better is my answer.
Oh don't get me wrong, fully agree with you that's not the right strategy, just find it ironic that we're in an even worse situation than back then plus have literally nobody to rely on in attack. We're fecking starved of goals, and I'm genuinely not sure where they're going to come from until the end of the season. Especially when we face better opposition in the Europa which Ruben really needs to have a good go at. Personally I would offload both Zirkzee and Hojilund in the summer and try to bring in two new strikers. Gun to the head, I'd keep Hojilund.
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I think RA has got to go with Dorgu and Amad as wing backs now and stick with it.
Use Fernandes and Garnacho in behind Hojlund or Zirkzee.
Use Fernandes and Garnacho in behind Hojlund or Zirkzee.
Bruno and Mainoo behind Zirkzee
Agreed, we really need to get rid of both, I have seen enough to say that neither will work out for us.
It just shows the lack of insight from our club where we sign 2 inexperienced strikers who are 2 completely different profiles. Our strike force is so poor because the recruitment has been so bad. Sancho, Antony, Hojlund all big money signings that didn't work so we are relying on Amad who is really playing his first full season with us.
There wasn't one available, nor would we have been able to afford it.
I'm not overly impressed by Amorim, but despite the setbacks there's reason for being optimistic about the future, and at the very least he deserves the summer transfer window and pre-season in order to get things moving.
Looking at the positives, he's handled the media a lot better than ETH and he's also weeded out the likes of Rashford and Casemiro who are not going to be part of any successful rebuild. Erik dithered on those aspects whereas RA has been decisive and ruthless. He's also made the team tighter off the ball and it just needs tweaking and a few more additions in order to be successful as an attacking unit. The big results away from home command respect, but he's lost against lesser teams.
My criticism is that he needs to be more adaptable in how he sets out his stall at home. Playing defensive wingbacks at the Emirates, Anfield, and Etihad makes perfect sense, but at home against Crystal Palace, you should have players like Anthony and Amad overloading the attack, especially against a low block (Antony of course has been moved on now). Palace are a good side, but the more defensive you start against them, the more likely they are to punish you on the break as the game wears on and you begin to get sloppy searching for a breakthrough.
Looking forward, he needs a strong striker (Gyokeres/Vlahovic/Omorodion), another midfielder for the pivot (Hjulmand?), a more experienced goalkeeper (Oblak would be my pick), and another wide forward. Then he should be more or less set because Leon will also come in and Collyer should develop into a trusty midfielder.
Looking at the positives, he's handled the media a lot better than ETH and he's also weeded out the likes of Rashford and Casemiro who are not going to be part of any successful rebuild. Erik dithered on those aspects whereas RA has been decisive and ruthless. He's also made the team tighter off the ball and it just needs tweaking and a few more additions in order to be successful as an attacking unit. The big results away from home command respect, but he's lost against lesser teams.
My criticism is that he needs to be more adaptable in how he sets out his stall at home. Playing defensive wingbacks at the Emirates, Anfield, and Etihad makes perfect sense, but at home against Crystal Palace, you should have players like Anthony and Amad overloading the attack, especially against a low block (Antony of course has been moved on now). Palace are a good side, but the more defensive you start against them, the more likely they are to punish you on the break as the game wears on and you begin to get sloppy searching for a breakthrough.
Looking forward, he needs a strong striker (Gyokeres/Vlahovic/Omorodion), another midfielder for the pivot (Hjulmand?), a more experienced goalkeeper (Oblak would be my pick), and another wide forward. Then he should be more or less set because Leon will also come in and Collyer should develop into a trusty midfielder.
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Kane was playing in the lower divisions at Hojlund's age and wasn't pulling up any trees.
So are 100s of other strikers. Kane is a special case.
Thats beside the point... where does age come into this, the topic was about the system being poor for Hojlund.
OKay, another ST then, Haaland scores everywhere he plays, regardless of system.
The point I am making is that I see very little progress by Amorim and that I don't think that time is the critical parameter, rather a lack of quality players.
Haaland is playing for a club that are serial champions. It's a different situation at United currently.
admittedly that had me confused for a couple of minutes as well.No I did not expect Forest to become top 4 challengers. We were 8th last season and are worse this season so it seems very hard to finish top 4 with these players. Amorim is unproven in the PL so hard to know if he has what it takes. Early signs are not impressive.
Im really hoping for a massive improvement tonight. Youve got your left wing back. You have a competent right wing back. Mainoo has shown he can do the attacking role in midfield along with bruno with the two wing backs providing width.
Collyer with Ugarte. The team should pick itself now.
No more excuses.
Style of play, creativity, more shots on goal.
Collyer with Ugarte. The team should pick itself now.
No more excuses.
Style of play, creativity, more shots on goal.
Nobody knows whether Dorgu is competent at this level. We can only hope he isn't another Zirkzee and our recruitment team did the due diligence on him.
All that you said is fine, but our forwards still can't score and we have no recognized CF who can. But yeah, I'd hope for a dominant performance since Leicester aren't all that.
But wouldn't the lack of quality players be an issue for other managers?
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Every striker who makes it at the top level is a special case, no?
it's better than what we've been serving up.
Extremely lucky this season is a free pass. He has been given rope here but when it’s time to repay that the pressure will be on.
A lot of players score plenty of goals in other countries but come here and are rubbish like Timo Werner who was scoring loads both domestically and in Europe in his first spell with RBL but then went to Chelsea and was rubbish for them.
Real lack of goal threat with that front 3. I would say Garnacho has to start.
They already have, to an extent. Not to worry, this season is a write-off because next year is our year, happy days. /i
Absolutely, our demise is 80-90% on the players. Amorim might become a legend for us, nobody knows, but we have added additional risk by appointing a manager who plays 3421 and is unproven in the PL. The lack of progress since he joined is a concern but might be explained by our terrible players and no wingbacks.
We are so poor because our team cant play the tactic he is asking them to play and he refuses to change it.
There are other managers out there that could get this squad playing much better football
Agreed. The players are showing no signs of gradually learning the system and Amorim is showing no signs of adapting. If we continue to see very little progress and more drab football then I think Ineos will cut their losses with him before the end of the season.
If that happens, then hopefully Iraola hasn't been snapped up by anyone else by then. I voted for him to be the next United manager back in September so I'm not going to change my tune now after a few more months of impressive, attacking football at Bournemouth.
As if he's a goal machine
No
Hojlund is 22
Kane was 21 when he started his first full season at Spurs in the 2014-15 season scoring 21 Premier League goals in 34 games and scored a total 31 goals in 51 games and never stopped scoring since.
Sometimes this place is fecking tedious, I remember championing getting rid of Rashford and not giving him his previous contract, keeping Rangnick and now I'll champion keeping Amorim and him sticking to his formation (yes I questioned him at first).
We went 2 full seasons of ten Hag were after every game everyone said the same thing 'I don't know what system we're playing' and when other clubs got new managers 'X teams manager has shown their style of play in 2 games, why can't ten Hag?'.
Well here we are, we finally have a manager with a clear system, formation and ideology, which was clear after a few games. Yes there's teething problems but they will be ironed out and fast, because Amorim and the board are not going to dilly dally season after season to improve our results.
We went 2 full seasons of ten Hag were after every game everyone said the same thing 'I don't know what system we're playing' and when other clubs got new managers 'X teams manager has shown their style of play in 2 games, why can't ten Hag?'.
Well here we are, we finally have a manager with a clear system, formation and ideology, which was clear after a few games. Yes there's teething problems but they will be ironed out and fast, because Amorim and the board are not going to dilly dally season after season to improve our results.
This question above, is answered by this post below:
Same.
That's why it all feels so familiar. We needed a young, bold manager with a defined and proven style of football. They sign Ten Hag. Then we allowed/facilitated/looked the other way when he brought in players he knew and had worked with. We thought he and our scouts would agree that these players were good enough for the PL, but most were not. The players were not fit enough, not physical enough, and not technical enough.
The Ten Hag Ajax system will work if only we get the right players!
Then we are told Ten Hag just needs patience, more time, luck, fewer injuries, fairer referees, and a few more players, with the ever-elusive DeJong as the key to it all. It's all "back the manager", things will improve. We spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on new players. Before those players are even bedded in, he's sacked.
Now the club hierarchy tears up the blueprint that we've been attempting to use for the past several years. They sign another young, bold manager with a defined and proven style of football: RA. And again, he needs hundreds of millions of pounds' worth of new players, time, and patience.
The Amorim Sporting system will work if only we get the right players!
It's very nearly the same thing. One key difference is that Ten Hag's style was more progressive and attacking than Amorim's style. I feel like if we had signed them in the reverse order, Amorim first, we would be welcoming Ten Hag as the new messiah. I feel like Ten Hag was basically the Dalot of managers: he's trying, he's not good enough, but what can you do we don't have anyone else. Then we sack Ten Hag and hire Amorim. Amorim's losses have been by his own hand. I just don't think it's acceptable to "write off" the rest of the season (whether he said that or not, or if it's only on fan forums) and relying on magical thinking.
After however many matches, it's clear that Amorimball is not compatible with these players. We are sticking with Amorim, so he needs new players. We are broke, so we are not getting those players. We signed two under the radar bargains (Dorgu, Heaven) and I hope they hit the ground running, that our scouts have finally done their jobs, because if they are the next Malacia and Zirkzee, we are totally fecked.
I don’t think we can put out a front 3 that has a “goal threat” to be honest.
I think it's more a case of poor squad planning and lack of overall strategy / leadership around the club over the past decade. The poor collection of players we've assembled is just a symptom of that, not the underlying cause.
The players arnt all rubbish or Sky Bet Championship standard like some are claiming, they are just being played in a way they cant play and the more they play this managers 1 and only tactic the worse they look.
With all the striker talk, can't help reflecting on Chris Woods numbers this season and thinking about our choice to go with Weghorst.
Premier League proven, even at mid-lower level clubs a better choice and odds on any given day?
Premier League proven, even at mid-lower level clubs a better choice and odds on any given day?
Yes, don't forget the preseason will change everything. He cant deliver because he came halfway thru the season seemingly so lost because 20 games isn't enough, but 8 preseason games in China will do the trick next season, magically.
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