Stan Jefferson
Full Member
totally agreeVAR should go back on trial, it should be scrapped at the highest levels.
It's killing the game, as is. Wolves were right.
totally agreeVAR should go back on trial, it should be scrapped at the highest levels.
It's killing the game, as is. Wolves were right.
Well in terms of run outs the line doesn't move and is visible in the field of play. The offside line moves constantly and isn't visible so there is a huge question of accuracy.Toe nail offside is still an offside. Just like in cricket a toe nail run out is still a run out. Can't believe people argue this ridiculous points. Most cricket games are decided by such decisions, LBWs, run outs, catches. If its over the line its over the line.
Well, why can't you make the same argument for the handball? A handball is a handball, no matter how light the touch, the intent, or if any advantage was gained. Anything else is arbitrary. Defenders should simply be aware of their hands at all times, just like how attackers should be aware of their feet, heads, shoulders, and knees. If the hands are in an unnatural position, it's a penalty.I’m fine with the offside rule, I mean if the argument is to allow goals if it’s close, where do you draw the line? A toe nail is fine but a whole foot isn’t? A close call is a tough one to take but ultimately so be it, at least it’s not arbitrary
the handball rule is absolutely bullshit though. Taking proximity out is ridiculous as is this expectation that defenders should be running around with their hands behind their backs - something not expected of attackers. Just ridiculous
Yeah I’m not seeing much difference between what she does and what dermot Gallagher does on sky sports. Both there to break the rules down and explain why the ref got it absolutely spot on and should never be questioned.The American woman is 'great' in the same way a very slick politician is great. Her job seems to be to explain the decisions, but also to arrive at the conclusion that the refs are always right and justified. She speaks well and explains well but is ultimately boring as her conclusion will always be that the decisions are correct
As for Oliver, he shouldn't be a championship ref.
The only decent argument I’ve seen is having thicker lines. But even then you’re just going to get the same instances of ‘there’s only a millimetre in it’ when the thicker lines are drawn on.I’m fine with the offside rule, I mean if the argument is to allow goals if it’s close, where do you draw the line? A toe nail is fine but a whole foot isn’t? A close call is a tough one to take but ultimately so be it, at least it’s not arbitrary
Knickers in a twist? Bad day at home mate?Feck off with this pretentious crap. The offside rule was created so that players don't hang around behind the defensive line and wait for the ball to be lobbed to them turning the game into a tennis match. It was not created for microscopic "offside" positions that offer no one any advantage. Positions that a human being can't even tell at a glance, so you need some uber-duper special system to measure it. Because a human can't. That's what's actually ridiculous.
VAR is crap that has no place in the game in its current iteration. I was initially for it because I assumed it would be used for... clear and obvious errors, like the Hand of God, or unsportsmanlike conduct that goes unnoticed. Not for measuring whether or not someone's toe was in an offside position. I imagine 30 years ago if you told someone this, they'd laugh in your face. It's absurd.
VAR should be completely scrapped, or kept only for the most egregious cases. It's a shame the clubs voted to keep it.
Don't take it personally. I've just seen this point brought up too many times. And I have a problem with it.Knickers in a twist? Bad day at home mate?
There’s definitely an enormous fecking irony in the way that awarding so many penalties because a defenders arm is “not in a natural position”, has forced them to hold their arms in the most unnatural position possible.I’m fine with the offside rule, I mean if the argument is to allow goals if it’s close, where do you draw the line? A toe nail is fine but a whole foot isn’t? A close call is a tough one to take but ultimately so be it, at least it’s not arbitrary
the handball rule is absolutely bullshit though. Taking proximity out is ridiculous as is this expectation that defenders should be running around with their hands behind their backs - something not expected of attackers. Just ridiculous
You’re not the only one. It’s a terrible point. Completely fails to grasp why the offside rule exists.Don't take it personally. I've just seen this point brought up too many times. And I have a problem with it.
Then you can argue it reasonably, instead of telling people to feck off and then asking them not to take it personally.Don't take it personally. I've just seen this point brought up too many times. And I have a problem with it.
He did argue it reasonably, in the rest of his post. You ignored the same point by me and now you’re ignoring it from him in favour of getting all precious about his tone.Then you can argue it reasonably, instead of telling people to feck off and then asking them not to take it personally.
Yeah, I’m bitter but football simply no longer makes sense as a spectator sports.
Some nerd in a gamer chair gets out his ruler to prove that a Danish player had a toe offside for our goal. Pre-VAR you would have laughed at that nerd but now he’s calling the shots so the goal is chalked off even though nobody would have complained about it back in the day because common sense prevailed back then.
Two minutes later, that same nerd pauses, rewinds and slows down the footage in order to convince himself that there may have been intent when a cross was blasted at an arm from two yards out. Again, no-one in the stadium has spotted anything, and certainly no-one is complaining because they’ve all played football and know that a ball occasionally hits an arm and it’s almost always accidental. But no, the nerd in the gamer chair is in charge.
How can anyone think that this makes sense from a spectator’s perspective anymore? There’s simply no point watching when that is what decides important games.
I completely agree with these points.Feck off with this pretentious crap. The offside rule was created so that players don't hang around behind the defensive line and wait for the ball to be lobbed to them turning the game into a tennis match. It was not created for microscopic "offside" positions that offer no one any advantage. Positions that a human being can't even tell at a glance, so you need some uber-duper special system to measure it. Because a human can't. That's what's actually ridiculous.
VAR is crap that has no place in the game in its current iteration. I was initially for it because I assumed it would be used for... clear and obvious errors, like the Hand of God, or unsportsmanlike conduct that goes unnoticed. Not for measuring whether or not someone's toe was in an offside position. I imagine 30 years ago if you told someone this, they'd laugh in your face. It's absurd.
VAR should be completely scrapped, or kept only for the most egregious cases. It's a shame the clubs voted to keep it.
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Now being a Championship fan I can honestly say that in my experience your second line lacks foundation. Playing without VAR has been a massive improvement - you still feel let down when decisions go against you but then you remember what a load of old bollocks VAR is, accept that refs sometimes feck up and then immediately get on with it.VAR is fine. You can still celebrate if the goal stands and it's not even needed for every goal.
People saying "VAR sucks" will inevitably complain about the lack of VAR when an illegal goal is scored against them.
You are right, I may have come out too strongly. I guess I was still salty. I apologise if I have offended you.Then you can argue it reasonably, instead of telling people to feck off and then asking them not to take it personally.
It actually feels more sickening to me that the law caused an unjust decision under the natural justice of the game than if a referee cocked something up
Yeah Mark Pougaths point about the rules being made in a way that makes no sense to actual football people really sums up where we have ended up.It actually feels more sickening to me that the law caused an unjust decision under the natural justice of the game than if a referee cocked something up
Feck off with this pretentious crap. The offside rule was created so that players don't hang around behind the defensive line and wait for the ball to be lobbed to them turning the game into a tennis match. It was not created for microscopic "offside" positions that offer no one any advantage. Positions that a human being can't even tell at a glance, so you need some uber-duper special system to measure it. Because a human can't. That's what's actually ridiculous.
VAR is crap that has no place in the game in its current iteration. I was initially for it because I assumed it would be used for... clear and obvious errors, like the Hand of God, or unsportsmanlike conduct that goes unnoticed. Not for measuring whether or not someone's toe was in an offside position. I imagine 30 years ago if you told someone this, they'd laugh in your face. It's absurd.
VAR should be completely scrapped, or kept only for the most egregious cases. It's a shame the clubs voted to keep it.
I could never agree with this. VAR is a relatively new invention, we know what it was like to play without VAR. And all I remember is people explicitly calling for VAR because of illegal goals being scored.Now being a Championship fan I can honestly say that in my experience your second line lacks foundation. Playing without VAR has been a massive improvement - you still feel let down when decisions go against you but then you remember what a load of old bollocks VAR is, accept that refs sometimes feck up and then immediately get on with it.
If anything experiencing VAR in the prem has led us to more greatly appreciate not having it in the Championship.
I completely agree with these points.
So strange watching the game – for the Denmark 'goal', no German player was screaming for offside. For the German penalty, no German player was asking for a handball!
It also annoys me how interpretation is given to handballs etc, but not offsides. Which sounds ridiculous, butIMO when ti comes to offsides, there should be the caveat of whether the olayer gained an advantage of being in an offside position. You see goals ruled out because someone was offside, but then ran back towards the halfway line (past defenders) to actually receive the ball. In such an instance, them being offside was actually a hinderence to them. So why should the goal be ruled out?
In the match tonight, the player being a toe offside gave him no advantage. and had no impact on the goal itself.
The bolded, exactly how i feel and talked about with my son this morning. Its just so stupid, the game sucks now.I completely agree with these points.
So strange watching the game – for the Denmark 'goal', no German player was screaming for offside. For the German penalty, no German player was asking for a handball!
It also annoys me how interpretation is given to handballs etc, but not offsides. Which sounds ridiculous, butIMO when ti comes to offsides, there should be the caveat of whether the olayer gained an advantage of being in an offside position. You see goals ruled out because someone was offside, but then ran back towards the halfway line (past defenders) to actually receive the ball. In such an instance, them being offside was actually a hinderence to them. So why should the goal be ruled out?
In the match tonight, the player being a toe offside gave him no advantage. and had no impact on the goal itself.
I imagine different people have different opinions.I wonder if the people complaining about interpretations of the handball rule are the same ones wishing for adding subjectivity to the offside rule. Next-up: if goal line technology says the goal hasn't gone in but it looks close enough and the shot was cool, let the ref allow it.
Last night's offside is harsh but it needs to stay binary. You may move the offside line to daylight between the players if you need a more obvious advantage in each and every single situation, but keep any interpretation out (except when assessing whether a player is actually interfering with play).
People called for VAR because they didnt know how it would work. Now we know and it is slowly but surely ruining the game.I could never agree with this. VAR is a relatively new invention, we know what it was like to play without VAR. And all I remember is people explicitly calling for VAR because of illegal goals being scored.
People did not call for VAR because of a toenail offside or an accidental handball from one yard out. That’s the point.I could never agree with this. VAR is a relatively new invention, we know what it was like to play without VAR. And all I remember is people explicitly calling for VAR because of illegal goals being scored.
Offside is offside. It is what it is. A line must be drawn somewhere. Better stay behind that line.People did not call for VAR because of a toenail offside or an accidental handball from one yard out. That’s the point.
How is it 'ruining" the game? It doesn't annoy me at all. I'm glad that teams aren't conceding illegal goals.People called for VAR because they didnt know how it would work. Now we know and it is slowly but surely ruining the game.
Instead of a line they could just increase the margin on it. Draw a significantly thicker line. In that case, a toe nail wouldn't be off, but a whole foot would, and it's still not arbitrary. Has the additional benefit of eliminating any potential inaccuracies of the technology.I’m fine with the offside rule, I mean if the argument is to allow goals if it’s close, where do you draw the line? A toe nail is fine but a whole foot isn’t? A close call is a tough one to take but ultimately so be it, at least it’s not arbitrary
the handball rule is absolutely bullshit though. Taking proximity out is ridiculous as is this expectation that defenders should be running around with their hands behind their backs - something not expected of attackers. Just ridiculous
Feck me. If that is not happening why are there countless discussions about VAR and decisions after every game.How is it 'ruining" the game? It doesn't annoy me at all. I'm glad that teams aren't conceding illegal goals.
Because there is now a lot more focus on the technicalities of football rules.Feck me. If that is not happening why are there countless discussions about VAR and decisions after every game.
So no decisions are wrong anymore then?Because there is now a lot more focus on the technicalities of football rules.
And football fans are biased, they are frustrated when their team's goal doesn't stand.
And another reason because of how long certain decisions take.
Because it has made the game worse. It’s made the game infinitely worse from a spectator’s point of view. And if you look at those decisions yesterday and think the final result is more fair because some guy in a gamer chair paused, slowed and rewinded the replay long enough to spot a toenail offside that gave the attacking player no advantage whatsover, and to convince himself that there was intent when a ball was blasted at an arm from one yard out, you are living in a technocratic parallel universe that should be (but evidently, sadly, isn’t) incompatible with spectator sports.Offside is offside. It is what it is. A line must be drawn somewhere. Better stay behind that line.
As for accidental handballs and such, I would have been fine with Lukaku's goal standing when it was disallowed because of Openda's handball.
So sure, some moments are to be criticized but why overcorrect and say VAR must be abolished?
I'm sure VAR makes mistakes.So no decisions are wrong anymore then?
This was originally how I felt, but honestly the more they have tinkered with it the worse it seems to get.I'm sure VAR makes mistakes.
But why overcorrect and argue that it must be gone? Why not just call for improvements to VAR? Not necessarily addressing you personally but in general.