He's said he's off a few times but keeps coming back for more. I'm just too alluring.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Tells others they don't know the law and they're wrong.
Quotes law that clearly states what the others were saying.
Claims to still be right.
Only in the loosest possible sense. He moves slightly to his left. Take away Dumfries and it's still a goal. He's not prevented anything as far as I'm concerned . As I said earlier, I can see why it's given but it's soft, imo.
Good to see VAR solved all the controversy...
Wolves need to keep putting it to a vote every season.
Even if they lose 19-1, it's still worth putting it on the table every season when it's this shite.
Wolves need to keep putting it to a vote every season.
Even if they lose 19-1, it's still worth putting it on the table every season when it's this shite.
So he moves then?
Let's break it down, shall we?
"a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball"
Dumfries was clearly offside and clearly in the way of any path Maignan might have taken towards the ball.
Your entire argument hinges on the "interferes with the movement of the opponent" bit, because you seem to believe that a collision of some sort has to happen for one player to have interfered with the movement of another.
I would argue that you can quite obviously interfere with someone's movement from point A to point B if you are standing directly between point A and point B, regardless of whether that person actually attempts to move. People are aware that they cannot simply pass through other people like ghosts, and sometimes decide to make only minor movements, or even not to move at all, if their path is clearly obstructed.
In non-football terms, if someone decides to park across my driveway and block me in, the movement of my car has been interfered with, even if I don't actually move my car into or towards the car blocking it.
Even if we accept that movement has to occur, by your own admission, it did. There is nothing in the law about the extent or force of the movement, so to go back to the earlier point, we simply do not want officials trying to read the thoughts of goalkeepers in situations like this, especially when there's a reasonable chance their movement (or lack thereof) could have been influenced by the offside player standing directly in their way.
"this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12."
Dumfries standing within a yard of Maignan, between him and the path of the ball, is quite clearly impacting his ability to play or challenge for it. This is irrefutable, and there's not much more to add to this bit.
As tomaldinho pointed out, your issue actually seems to be with the law as written, because nothing in your argument is actually supported by it.
However, I'd even disagree with that, because your argument seems to want the law to incorporate subjectivity on why a goalkeeper may or may not attempt to make a save when there's a player directly preventing that, whether a goalkeeper is even aware of the offside player directly preventing them from attempting a save, whether the goalkeeper has sufficiently sorted his foot placement and balance out to attempt a save, or even if the goalkeeper is simply good enough to pull of the save required.
It's fine if you think Maignan's not getting there regardless of Dumfries, but the fact is that we simply can't know that precisely because Dumfries was there. To continually harp on about the law and still end up falling back on a subjective view of Maignan's ability as a goalkeeper to support your argument (that isn't all supported by the law you keep mentioning) is laughable.
So KDB can put his studs in to the keeper but they're going to disallow a goal for that?
Killing the game.
Killing the game.
Stonewall pen.
Horrible decision. The defender got nowhere near the ball.
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Good fecking grief. Automatic red card for such ridiculous play acting.
Oliver trying to ruin this match
Oliver not even hiding the fact he's corrupt.
A fecking snickometer.
in football
feck off
in football
feck off
The sensor in the ball is used to determine exact moment ball was played for the semi-automated offsides. The secondary use is confirming contact for decisions such as that.
Can we please just move to an appeals system similar to cricket and NFL?
Just makes no sense to follow the sport when it’s decisions like this that decides game. A toenail offside and a penalty from a cross that was blasted to an arm from two yards. And that’s why Germany will proceed instead of us. No reason to keep watching.
Funny how there's only controversy when the prem refs get involved. Oliver and Atwell are fecking awful.
Handball laws are terrible and have been for some time now
It should go back to handballs never being given unless extremely blatant. Also toenail offsides are fecking shit but that's another story.
One of the latest Official United podcast episodes Had Keith Hackett on. Former head of PGMOL, was the man who brought VAR to England. He's against it now even.
Candid interview that, did not hold back any punches.
Candid interview that, did not hold back any punches.
Toe nail offside is still an offside. Just like in cricket a toe nail run out is still a run out. Can't believe people argue this ridiculous points. Most cricket games are decided by such decisions, LBWs, run outs, catches. If its over the line its over the line.
Yeah, I’m bitter but football simply no longer makes sense as a spectator sports.
Some nerd in a gamer chair gets out his ruler to prove that a Danish player had a toe offside for our goal. Pre-VAR you would have laughed at that nerd but now he’s calling the shots so the goal is chalked off even though nobody would have complained about it back in the day because common sense prevailed back then.
Two minutes later, that same nerd pauses, rewinds and slows down the footage in order to convince himself that there may have been intent when a cross was blasted at an arm from two yards out. Again, no-one in the stadium has spotted anything, and certainly no-one is complaining because they’ve all played football and know that a ball occasionally hits an arm and it’s almost always accidental. But no, the nerd in the gamer chair is in charge.
How can anyone think that this makes sense from a spectator’s perspective anymore? There’s simply no point watching when that is what decides important games.
Some nerd in a gamer chair gets out his ruler to prove that a Danish player had a toe offside for our goal. Pre-VAR you would have laughed at that nerd but now he’s calling the shots so the goal is chalked off even though nobody would have complained about it back in the day because common sense prevailed back then.
Two minutes later, that same nerd pauses, rewinds and slows down the footage in order to convince himself that there may have been intent when a cross was blasted at an arm from two yards out. Again, no-one in the stadium has spotted anything, and certainly no-one is complaining because they’ve all played football and know that a ball occasionally hits an arm and it’s almost always accidental. But no, the nerd in the gamer chair is in charge.
How can anyone think that this makes sense from a spectator’s perspective anymore? There’s simply no point watching when that is what decides important games.
Sad thing about the handball decision is nobody else expected it. The players and fans didn’t appeal and the commentators were taken by surprise, stating hold on a minute, there’s a penalty check for something.
So frustrating when VAR sees something nobody else does.
So frustrating when VAR sees something nobody else does.
Ok. Some sense then
Can I amend my post to say snickometer for handball can feck off
Still cannot see how the feck is Stuart Atwell on VAR at an international tournament.
That’s because the purpose of offside is to stop players goal-hanging, not to try and disallow goals because of a few (debatable) centimetres here and there. Nobody complains about these fine margins when we’re dealing with a ball crossing the goal line, which really is comparable to the cricket scenarios you mention. This insane nit-picking about offsides goes completely against the spirit of the rule it’s supposed to enforce.
This American woman on itv is great. I bet the refs absolutely love her.
She explains why our game is being ruined very well
She’s brilliant! If the Premier League had any sense they’d be trying to hire her ASAP!
VAR
Handballs
Offsides
All three of those elements, their usages, and their applications are all a complete and utter mess.
When the ball hits the back of the net, the fans don't know any more if a goal will count. I would love to see the ratio between goals that are actually given against goals that are disallowed.
Nobody knows what handball is anymore. The 'excitement' that fans feel when goals are scored is nowhere near the same as it was pre-VAR.
Nobody knows what offsides are anymore. How can a player on the pitch possibly know if they're offside or not when the margins are down to literal millimetres? A player on the pitch can't possibly make those judgements with the speed at which the game is played. It's coming down to toenails and shoe sizes.
Handballs
Offsides
All three of those elements, their usages, and their applications are all a complete and utter mess.
When the ball hits the back of the net, the fans don't know any more if a goal will count. I would love to see the ratio between goals that are actually given against goals that are disallowed.
Nobody knows what handball is anymore. The 'excitement' that fans feel when goals are scored is nowhere near the same as it was pre-VAR.
Nobody knows what offsides are anymore. How can a player on the pitch possibly know if they're offside or not when the margins are down to literal millimetres? A player on the pitch can't possibly make those judgements with the speed at which the game is played. It's coming down to toenails and shoe sizes.
Just said same on the match thread… the decisions are bollocks but she explains each part of the rule/the interpretation really clearly.
Its not the technology, it’s the morons who come up with the rules and the morons who officiate it
Her explanations of the rules of the game and applying it to the action are first class. She does it unerringly without a hint of hesitation or stuttering. As she alluded to at the end there, these aren't her opinions and she probably thinks the handball is a load of shite too, but those are the rules.
I like that she's there basically to kind of bury it even further. Like they just want it ref'd from a robotic point of view, forgetting they are humans.
Ange nailed it, the refs should ref the game unless it's an absolute calamity, a millimetre isn't that, and neither is that kind of handball.
Ange nailed it, the refs should ref the game unless it's an absolute calamity, a millimetre isn't that, and neither is that kind of handball.
Long and short of it is John Terry took the piss and we all have to suffer because the administrators in charge went too far in trying to stop that sort of cheating
The American woman is 'great' in the same way a very slick politician is great. Her job seems to be to explain the decisions, but also to arrive at the conclusion that the refs are always right and justified. She speaks well and explains well but is ultimately boring as her conclusion will always be that the decisions are correct
As for Oliver, he shouldn't be a championship ref.
As for Oliver, he shouldn't be a championship ref.
Feck off with this pretentious crap. The offside rule was created so that players don't hang around behind the defensive line and wait for the ball to be lobbed to them turning the game into a tennis match. It was not created for microscopic "offside" positions that offer no one any advantage. Positions that a human being can't even tell at a glance, so you need some uber-duper special system to measure it. Because a human can't. That's what's actually ridiculous.
VAR is crap that has no place in the game in its current iteration. I was initially for it because I assumed it would be used for... clear and obvious errors, like the Hand of God, or unsportsmanlike conduct that goes unnoticed. Not for measuring whether or not someone's toe was in an offside position. I imagine 30 years ago if you told someone this, they'd laugh in your face. It's absurd.
VAR should be completely scrapped, or kept only for the most egregious cases. It's a shame the clubs voted to keep it.
too feckin trueVAR should go back on trial, it should be scrapped at the highest levels.
It's killing the game, as is. Wolves were right.
It's killing the game, as is. Wolves were right.