I think with U2 their music became generic as their fame rose. And that jarred. And I think people begrudged Bono any success. I do think they have talent but yes, never understood the scale of their success.
Music Taylor Swift
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It's much less a shoulder to shoulder with teen girls experience.
I have been at gigs as a Dad with predominantly teen girls. It's not a collective with me as a part of it in any way shape or form.
The material aspect of this is quite important in it's weirdness.
Those are great examples. There’s definitely something going on where some people feel this intense connection with something initially aimed at them as kids that doesn’t go away when they’re an adult. So they end up crazy passionate about very mediocre/childish art. Taylor Swift is possibly something similar? Star Wars probably an equivalent for people of mine and @moses generation.
We're talking about children, as in 15 year olds, not like five year olds, right? How about such a thing like Lord of the Rings? Do you think it's weird if a 14 year old and his dad (here, here but I was 11) went to see the first movie and both loved it?
U2 were huge becuase they I) hit a sweet spot of rock music that was palatable for people who looked different genres II) they were able to evolve and maintain relevance. They were a fun rock band in the Sunday Bloody Sunday / Pride days, and then were able to transition to more mild modern rock with All that you can’t leave behind and beyond. I used to love them tbh but I’ve moved on and can see the argument against. I still do maintain that they are unfairly judged due to Bono’s extravagant personality and the whole Apple Music issue.
If we use Star Wars then there were a variety of ways to connect, and even then it was a predominantly young boy thing. Thus my brother still has the odd high end Bobba Fett figurine about. And these days you would still have quite a large amount of old comic book store dudes at a Star Wars event but I see the connection brought from youth, not made as an adult.
This for me is not the same, unless I'm mistaken this is not a 12 year old Swiftie now an adult, but more of an adult who got into TS?
I'm totally biased here in that my engagement with her is through the experience of my young daughters.
I'm also a cynical bastard and an introvert who mainly just nods gigs and only smiles at really really good bits,so none of this makes sense to me.
I think for me it comes down to the level of hysteria. I like Pokemon and Harry Potter. I like the album 1989 by Taylor Swift. They're all harmless fun and I understand the appeal to both adults and children. The over the top hysteria is what I struggle to understand but people can do them I suppose. It won't stop me laughing at grown adults greetin' like a bairn when one of their songs comes on though.
You think there is no difference between a family movie being enjoyed by a dad and son and an adult crying at a Taylor Swift gig?
I'd definitely not notice the age spread in a cinema, as they have certifications probably. I did tend to spot other adults at the gigs I brought my daughters to, and I would definitely register if one of the adults were crying and screaming.
Exactly, nobody is agog at somebody humming along to TS in their car or even at a gig.
I assume that most adult TS fans grew up with her. Hasn’t she been releasing music for over a decade now? So teenage fans of her debut album are now in their late twenties.
Fully grown adults who “discovered” her recently and became intense, passionate fans of her music I would definitely find very hard to get my head around.
Don't be so reasonable.
Well at least I've made you only look moderately grumpy.
I should do some work.
I would also say that it’s a little unfair to use extreme examples of hysteria to judge so many of her fans. The extreme example come with the nature of her immense success. Whenever 70.000 people are gathered in a single spot, there will always be huge weirdos present. And TS just happens to be the biggest star there is right now. So of course there will be many of these strange weirdos around.
But overall, I don’t think she’s much different from other Popstars from days past. What changed is the media around us with the ascend of social media. It’s all more visible to us.
I genuinely believe the extreme cases are mostly younger people, especially teens. And teens happen to be weird as feck. I think most adults just think her music is fun and that’s about it.
There’s no great mystery here. It’s just harmless fun people can share with many others. Like Star Wars or Harry Potter.
But overall, I don’t think she’s much different from other Popstars from days past. What changed is the media around us with the ascend of social media. It’s all more visible to us.
I genuinely believe the extreme cases are mostly younger people, especially teens. And teens happen to be weird as feck. I think most adults just think her music is fun and that’s about it.
There’s no great mystery here. It’s just harmless fun people can share with many others. Like Star Wars or Harry Potter.
Well, I'd say crying at things are highly individual. Some don't cry for anything, some cry a lot. Your point, as far as I could tell, was that you though it was weird that a parent and a child could have the same, emotionally strong, experience. Which I don't agree with.
I find the normalising of infantile behaviour in adults equally fascinating and creepy. Trying to compare the crazy reactions people have at Taylor Swift concerts with watching Lord of the Rings at the cinema is just 
.
.No. I was talking about hysteria from an adult surrounded by teens.
It's not the same as a family movie.
The idea that you see no difference doesn't seem honest.
If people are interested in the Taylor Swift phenomenon/devotion/hysteria, here are a couple of good examples of how this stuff is developed/cultivated. Each about a 5 minute watch.
1989 Secret Sessions, Behind The Scenes!
Taylor Swift's Gift Giving of 2014 | SWIFTMAS
This stuff is obviously arranged, edited and released by Taylor Swift and her team to build her image and to sell more tickets and albums. The cynic in me says that's all there is to it, and that she could have done all this with telling everyone about it. But if I'm being more generous, it does seem like there is a bit more going on than just pure marketing.
1989 Secret Sessions, Behind The Scenes!
Taylor Swift's Gift Giving of 2014 | SWIFTMAS
This stuff is obviously arranged, edited and released by Taylor Swift and her team to build her image and to sell more tickets and albums. The cynic in me says that's all there is to it, and that she could have done all this with telling everyone about it. But if I'm being more generous, it does seem like there is a bit more going on than just pure marketing.
I got a little emotional at Smashing Pumpkins last week. First time seeing them and one of my favourite bands as a teenager.
I say let it out
I say let it out
Also a completely separate topic but if I'm at a gig, the last thing I want is for everyone around me to manically screech every word of every song around me. Call me old fashioned but if I'm paying to see someone live, I want to hear the artist and not some twat next to me.
Ah yeah, I got a mild but well controlled wave of nostalgia at the Jesus and Mary Chain a few months back.
Where did you see SP? The UK reviews were great and one of my daughters said they were amazing in Dublin.
Exactly. Shut the feck up people.
It's as annoying when drunk folk talk at acoustic gigs.
To be fair to U2: they are a great live band. I've been to a couple of their concerts on different tours and they always put on a great show for the audience.
Adult men crying on the internet about how "they just don't understand the Taylor Swift phenomenon" is more more annoying than Taylor and her fans
Many of Taylor Swift's fans are middle-aged. Why do they love her so intensely?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-18/why-are-so-many-taylor-swift-fans-middle-aged/103457252
This is a good read. And I do think she's great, as the article says, she's wonderfully 'safe' in so many ways. Her social stances and politics are almost all positive.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-18/why-are-so-many-taylor-swift-fans-middle-aged/103457252
This is a good read. And I do think she's great, as the article says, she's wonderfully 'safe' in so many ways. Her social stances and politics are almost all positive.
Supporting a football team.
It's a valid discussion. Thanks for your input, which by your logic is an adult man crying about adult men crying about not understanding the Taylor Swift phenomenon.
Yeah, the more I read it seems the demographics while described as broadly white millennial and female, that is misleading as the gender split for example is about 55% to 45% depending on sources and overasll 25% are boomers.
That’s fecking hilarious, considering how often being a boomer is used a reason for people not getting her. One in four of the people attending her gigs is a boomer. Safe to say that being an old fart is definitely not a reason on its own for her music failing to land.
I don’t see “wonderfully safe” as a positive tbh. Musicians should strive to be the exact opposite, if anything.
I mean, you probably don't realise it considering the side of the conversation you're on but you and Pogue have about 175 posts in here with very little constructive input. You guys do you, but it's also understandable why some people are a bit tired by it. That's a lot of posts being miserable.
As a parent of teens I was happy they were listening to TS, safe in the knowledge that what she was saying wasn't objectionable, she was challenging the patriarchy and the music industry, (in a manner), which I personally found safe. She was challenging things, but it wasn't immigrants and the trans community.
So the issue isn't adults greatly appreciating the same thing that younger people do, it's that they do it while being close to a lot of these younger people. Gotcha, that's indeed very weird.
Just for the record, I have posted less than you in this thread.
You do you. My daughter said that to me in one of her most obnoxious teen moments. Well done.
Sorry to annoy you, but I have praised the hell out of Taylor in this thread and am genuinely interested. Genuinely. Between chatting here I'm booking hotels for a UK tour for an artist I represent, so I am legitimately interested. I have praised her and criticised her, and looked into the demographics to prove myself wrong. So yeah, I'll do me. Cheers.
But that’s just it. Kids shouldn’t really be listening to music their parents approve of. That’s not what being a teen is about.
Firstly, they were 13 dude, I didn't approve of the music, but I liked that some was punching up in the mix.
The policing of opinions in this thread is genuinely one of the more pathetic tropes on the caf right now. We have literally thousands of posts micro-analysing whether a bald man is doing a good job managing a football team but a few hundred posts daring to be negative about the Taylor Swift phenomenon are taking things too far. Really?!?
Cool cool! You 2 are definitely her biggest cheerleaders. I was replying specifically to that post where you were being pithy with a guy that was calling you out - though in fairness, I was just reading speedily and genuinely a little bit fatigued by "repeat offenders" in this thread - apologies if that's not your case
As for the breakind down/meltdown conversations, I think there's a lot to do with demographics (a lot of her fans are teens), and for some adults, I guess it's the connection going back 10-15 years with her music?
A few years ago I broke down at a Gorillaz concert, I'd gone through a really hard year, and it wasn't the genius of lyrics of "kids with guns" or anything that got to me, rather the nostalgia completely submerging me when I was in a rather vulnerable emotional situation. I think it's fine that music can do it and trying to rationalise it doesn't make much sense.
And not all negative either, overall I think she's great, if a little bemused by the level of her fame.
Yeah that's what's weird!