Not really, that roadblock is all Newcastle.
Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Apparently Sir Jim can't even sell this new and exciting product to Tuchel without making him think he's not going to be their choice 
It gives the appearance that they're reluctant to sack eth because they're unsure they can get the appropriate replacement. Which is actually quite sad
They are not covering themselves in glory here.
We didnt need to keep chasing him when it was clear Newcastle were reluctant to let him go, there must be other people we could have approached for that role.
Publicly calling out Newcastle wasn't particularly smart either
First big task and it's been an absolute shit show.
This looks pretty bad. We’re openly flirting with other managers while we haven’t sacked our current one. Even if we end up deciding to keep ETH, it still looks like a clown show. How’s ETH supposed to lead the team with any confidence next season?
I don’t understand this opinion. Can you explain more?
Appointing a CEO was quite big…
Chemical toilet
Sir Joel Glazer wouldn’t have stood for this shitshow
A very poor start to the new regime. You can't be actively interviewing managers without sacking the current one. Even if him staying is an option, he now knows that it's just because no one was available, which might change any moment in the future. The players now know this as well. I wanted ETH to stay, but they really undermined him here.
I've seen nothing from Ratcliff that makes me think he's different from previous morons.
I've seen nothing from Ratcliff that makes me think he's different from previous morons.
People lashing out at them very quickly.
The Ten Hag thing might not be all it seems, and even if it is then is really that big a deal keeping a manager guessing for a couple of weeks? He does have the option to walk, but he wants his money doesn't he.
It looked like Bayern treated Tuchel very poorly, Moyes at West Ham, Chelsea always treat thier managers badly, etc, it happens all the time.
The Ten Hag thing might not be all it seems, and even if it is then is really that big a deal keeping a manager guessing for a couple of weeks? He does have the option to walk, but he wants his money doesn't he.
It looked like Bayern treated Tuchel very poorly, Moyes at West Ham, Chelsea always treat thier managers badly, etc, it happens all the time.
I just hope once Berrada and Ashworth finally join that Jim can leave it to them. Him and his INEOS cronies can be involved in strategy of course but I’d hate it if his level of involvement was to continue as it currently appears.
They’re making a mess of this manager situation but they get some grace due to the appointments not being in post yet and Wilcox only joining not long ago.
I guess we’ll get a more informed opinion on what things will be like come January or next summer.
They’re making a mess of this manager situation but they get some grace due to the appointments not being in post yet and Wilcox only joining not long ago.
I guess we’ll get a more informed opinion on what things will be like come January or next summer.
Their start has been far from encouraging.
I said this a month or two ago and got lambasted for it. Apparently we should only go for one person because he's who INEOS want and it's bad because reasons that we should keep our options open for other candidates. Now we're in the summer window and we don't have our DOF and will have to rely on the technical director and soon-to-be CEO for the strategy. But now it's ok to say that when INEOS' usual ineptitude is too blatant for the caf to ignore.
He seems like the budget version of Abramovic/Boehly.
I doubt sir Jim was begging him. They had a conversation, seemingly agreed to disagree and went their separate ways. Perfectly normal, I don’t see the controversy here. And that’s if this even happened and is true.Apparently Sir Jim can't even sell this new and exciting product to Tuchel without making him think he's not going to be their choice
It's been a crap start and I've seen nothing to suggest that the running of the club will be any less dysfunctional than it was before. My optimism is dead.
feck’s sake. I really want this to go well and I have hope that they’ll guide us out the Glazer-created hell, but it’s really not seeming positive. I was not up for appointing Tuchel, considering the fact that this was a man who led the one horse in a one horse league to a third placed finish, but still, he’s a lot better than Gareth bloody Southgate (who is nevertheless the best England manager since Alf Ramsey (or at the very least since Bobby Robson) yet is absolutely not the right man to manage us). I don’t know man. I want to have trust in them, but it’s looking bleak and it seems that a large amount aren’t fecking hopeful. I want to be optimistic because I’ve followed United since 2010 and since 2013 it’s been absolutely fecking shit. Maybe it is mindless optimism, but I’m naturally a pessimistic person as I have depression and I just want this - the situation of my football club - to be handled well. I’m not up for a continuation of the Glazer era and therefore indefinite mediocrity even with new owners. I’m tired, Robbie, I really am.
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And in only 5 months.
The idiot in the pub with something to prove who talks a lot, acts loud and aggressive and just looks a fool but doesn’t realise it.
Hang in there man, they are still sorting out and hiring/firing key personnel. ( but not the manager - joke, lol) Things will come good, but it will take sometime to get up to speed - a measure of just how shitty a state the Glazers have left the club in.
Transfers will come, I think the Euros buy them some time too, nothing much will happen before July.
Don’t let this affect your depression or play on your mind (I know the feeling, I suffer too and am on sertraline) - give yourself time off if it’s getting too heavy and come back to it at the start of preseason. I’m sure things will look brighter then (they always do at the start of a new season before we kick a ball!)
Fair enough. By aggressive I assume you’re referring to WFH/voluntary redundancy etc. I don’t see it that way but it’s certainly an interesting analogy.
Nope. The way they’ve gone about the manager. Gone on about “strategic review”, spoken about Newcastle and now don’t have their man. All in all just look like people using United as a trophy wife.
Anyone surprised by the redundancies of normal staff at United doesn’t know Jim Ratcliffe, he has a history of it. And no making people who are on 20-50k a year redundant does not help United who are £800m in debt spend more on players.
“To maintain a project, maybe you need to speak less about objectives and work in silence to create an environment of competitors. Because the expectation is even bigger, and then after, people are frustrated.”
Nice captain Dante speaking about INEOS
Nice captain Dante speaking about INEOS
Or they’re waiting on Southgate ?
Anyways I know someone who works at Red Bird and regularly liaises with AC. The view in Milan, one she says is shared across Europe, is that no one is holding their breath about United returning to its past glory.
Hi mate. A month on and they are still dithering.
This is a terrible start to their reign. Very worrying signs how they are handling the Head Coach issue.
But with a massive cast of people that seemingly every decision has to go through
I have massive hope the Ineos Team will transform us with Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox. All top people in football world much better than what we used to have Ed, Arnold, Murtough. I think they are all in constant contact and communication even though some still in gardening leaves and whatnot.
Hope they have something up the sleeves and will announce in due course the new manager and plan moving forward. Otherwise the way they handle the manager situation seems worse than the previous regime.
Hope they have something up the sleeves and will announce in due course the new manager and plan moving forward. Otherwise the way they handle the manager situation seems worse than the previous regime.
That NYtimes article is more journalistic nonsense. People love some hyperbole, and United fans are such easy targets right now. Huge sections of the fan base are frothing at the mouth, ready to get the pitchforks out, so winding them up with doom mongering and claims of chaos is just too easy. Too many clicks to be had. The press equivalent of a tap in.
Reminds me of about three years ago when there were all these articles saying how bad the academy was and how far behind it had slipped versus all of our rivals, especially City. Previous United players sending their kids to City’s academy because ours was so terrible. No actual content on the quality of coaching, all just smoke and mirrors based around shiny new facilities. Three years later United continue to churn out class players from the academy, and are clearly the top big club in England when it comes to youth development. Especially when you factor in pathways to the first team. If it hadn’t been for factors out of our control, we could have a front three (Rashford, Garnacho and Greenwood) of top players from our academy starting for the first team. And what other big club can say that? None.
People need to massively chill out and let this summer play out. The media is feeding off the fear caused by decades of incompetence and indifference by the Glazers. It’s simply impossible at this early stage to know (a) what the Ineos regime is doing behind the scenes, and (b) how the trajectory of the club will change under their stewardship. This is something to be measured in years, not days or weeks.
I’m very relaxed at this point. They’ve already appointed a lot of top people. They are clearly doing extensive analysis and due diligence on the manager position. And it’s not like we are currently without a manager. We have one that the majority of the fan base apparently want to keep (however misguided that sentiment is), and who is currently on holiday. There’s not a lot of transfer business happening in the lead up to the Euros. Hardly anyone has done anything yet. So this is the perfect time to do all this analysis and due diligence. I am quite sure that targets have already been sounded out, agents spoken to, and the work of offloading players and working on the budgets and organisational structure is ongoing.
Nothing is going to be solved in one summer. The Glazers have made such a mess of this, it’s going to take 2-3 years to get us to a stable, sustainably competitive position - barring miracles from the anointed coach. And that’s exactly how we should be looking at this. Not so much where we are at the end of the season, but more where we are in 3 years. Are we on a solid upward trajectory? Has the squad been adequately retooled with players that fit a consistent playing philosophy, to the point where we don’t need massive turnover every year? Has training and medical infrastructure improved? Are we on a concrete path to a new or redeveloped stadium? Is the club consistently profitable to the point where it can reinvest significantly in the playing squad and future capital improvement projects? Are fan groups being consistently engaged and listened to, and being made a part of a community based approach to local regeneration? Are we continuing to embrace, and improve, our youth development record and pathway to the first team? Have we managed to reignite growth in the commercial department as a key cog of profitability? Etc etc.
The modernisation and reorganisation of the club is a massive project that will take time, patience, and facing a lot of difficult decisions. It’s so much bigger than rushing to placate fans with rapid decisions, or bringing in some marquee players for a short term uptick. It’s about reigniting this club and rebuilding the foundations, which have rotted out beneath our feet. It’s a massive job. So all the nervousness and judgement from certain sections of our fans, and all the gleeful hyperbole and mockery from select sections of the media, are essentially meaningless to those who really understand what needs to be done.
What I have seen so far is a regime that has brought in several of the most coveted football experts in the world. Ashworth, a man universally lauded for his work in the industry, Berrada, one if the most highly rated executives in the football world, Wilcox, another highly rated executive talent, one who turned downed Liverpool to come to us. Blanc, as a temporary CEO, and having a permanent seat on the board, as a man of huge experience and repute in European football. A French David Gill. We’ve poached top medical people from Arsenal. There’s actual movement on the stadium with some heavy football, finance, sport, and political figures involved, with work ongoing to secure public funding or tax breaks. There is a huge sweeping review of operations which is already creating organisationally wide changes.
There is so much evidence to suggest that Ineos is going about things in a deliberate, informed, decisive and expert way, and yet people are derailed so easily by a two week wait to know the fate of the manager. I suspect the bed wetters right now are the same people who will laud a young player for being a massive talent one week, only to call him absolute shit a few weeks or months later. And I don’t suppose there is much one can do about people who think like that. Must be stressful. For them. For the rest of us, those who don’t like to live in a constant vortex of drama, gossip, hyperbole, extremes, conspiracy and vitriol, the early signs are positive and we need to let it play out over an extended period of time before coming to any serious judgement.
For context, in 2017 I was appointed CEO of a small to medium sized business with 150 employees. The previous CEO had virtually bankrupted the company, the public image was shot, debts had piled up, and the organisational culture was toxic. It took me two years to turn that company around, to the point where it was profitable again, debts were cleared, we had a positive public image, and it was a desirable place to work again. Two years, and this was a small, tiny company by comparison, with not even 5% of the complexity of a massive club like United. That first year especially, I was haunted by the litany of terrible decisions made my by predecesor, and had to own many of them as the consequences of his decisions often weren’t felt for several months after he had been relieved of command. That was at least 18 months of abuse from people, people angry about what came before and that change wasn’t happening fast enough, and then other people angry about any change happening at all. “What do you mean I have to come to work on time???” These were the same people who two years later were lapping up the success and pretending to have been a key supporter and influencer in the change initiative all along.
People are predictable, and largely quite stupid. People want change immediately, but they also complain about most of the changes. One thing they definitely don’t want you to do is think about your changes, and take time to plan them out and do them properly. That’s just indecisive and dithering, until it isn’t and all the thoughtful hard work starts to pay off, and then they were a crucial part of it all along.
Reminds me of about three years ago when there were all these articles saying how bad the academy was and how far behind it had slipped versus all of our rivals, especially City. Previous United players sending their kids to City’s academy because ours was so terrible. No actual content on the quality of coaching, all just smoke and mirrors based around shiny new facilities. Three years later United continue to churn out class players from the academy, and are clearly the top big club in England when it comes to youth development. Especially when you factor in pathways to the first team. If it hadn’t been for factors out of our control, we could have a front three (Rashford, Garnacho and Greenwood) of top players from our academy starting for the first team. And what other big club can say that? None.
People need to massively chill out and let this summer play out. The media is feeding off the fear caused by decades of incompetence and indifference by the Glazers. It’s simply impossible at this early stage to know (a) what the Ineos regime is doing behind the scenes, and (b) how the trajectory of the club will change under their stewardship. This is something to be measured in years, not days or weeks.
I’m very relaxed at this point. They’ve already appointed a lot of top people. They are clearly doing extensive analysis and due diligence on the manager position. And it’s not like we are currently without a manager. We have one that the majority of the fan base apparently want to keep (however misguided that sentiment is), and who is currently on holiday. There’s not a lot of transfer business happening in the lead up to the Euros. Hardly anyone has done anything yet. So this is the perfect time to do all this analysis and due diligence. I am quite sure that targets have already been sounded out, agents spoken to, and the work of offloading players and working on the budgets and organisational structure is ongoing.
Nothing is going to be solved in one summer. The Glazers have made such a mess of this, it’s going to take 2-3 years to get us to a stable, sustainably competitive position - barring miracles from the anointed coach. And that’s exactly how we should be looking at this. Not so much where we are at the end of the season, but more where we are in 3 years. Are we on a solid upward trajectory? Has the squad been adequately retooled with players that fit a consistent playing philosophy, to the point where we don’t need massive turnover every year? Has training and medical infrastructure improved? Are we on a concrete path to a new or redeveloped stadium? Is the club consistently profitable to the point where it can reinvest significantly in the playing squad and future capital improvement projects? Are fan groups being consistently engaged and listened to, and being made a part of a community based approach to local regeneration? Are we continuing to embrace, and improve, our youth development record and pathway to the first team? Have we managed to reignite growth in the commercial department as a key cog of profitability? Etc etc.
The modernisation and reorganisation of the club is a massive project that will take time, patience, and facing a lot of difficult decisions. It’s so much bigger than rushing to placate fans with rapid decisions, or bringing in some marquee players for a short term uptick. It’s about reigniting this club and rebuilding the foundations, which have rotted out beneath our feet. It’s a massive job. So all the nervousness and judgement from certain sections of our fans, and all the gleeful hyperbole and mockery from select sections of the media, are essentially meaningless to those who really understand what needs to be done.
What I have seen so far is a regime that has brought in several of the most coveted football experts in the world. Ashworth, a man universally lauded for his work in the industry, Berrada, one if the most highly rated executives in the football world, Wilcox, another highly rated executive talent, one who turned downed Liverpool to come to us. Blanc, as a temporary CEO, and having a permanent seat on the board, as a man of huge experience and repute in European football. A French David Gill. We’ve poached top medical people from Arsenal. There’s actual movement on the stadium with some heavy football, finance, sport, and political figures involved, with work ongoing to secure public funding or tax breaks. There is a huge sweeping review of operations which is already creating organisationally wide changes.
There is so much evidence to suggest that Ineos is going about things in a deliberate, informed, decisive and expert way, and yet people are derailed so easily by a two week wait to know the fate of the manager. I suspect the bed wetters right now are the same people who will laud a young player for being a massive talent one week, only to call him absolute shit a few weeks or months later. And I don’t suppose there is much one can do about people who think like that. Must be stressful. For them. For the rest of us, those who don’t like to live in a constant vortex of drama, gossip, hyperbole, extremes, conspiracy and vitriol, the early signs are positive and we need to let it play out over an extended period of time before coming to any serious judgement.
For context, in 2017 I was appointed CEO of a small to medium sized business with 150 employees. The previous CEO had virtually bankrupted the company, the public image was shot, debts had piled up, and the organisational culture was toxic. It took me two years to turn that company around, to the point where it was profitable again, debts were cleared, we had a positive public image, and it was a desirable place to work again. Two years, and this was a small, tiny company by comparison, with not even 5% of the complexity of a massive club like United. That first year especially, I was haunted by the litany of terrible decisions made my by predecesor, and had to own many of them as the consequences of his decisions often weren’t felt for several months after he had been relieved of command. That was at least 18 months of abuse from people, people angry about what came before and that change wasn’t happening fast enough, and then other people angry about any change happening at all. “What do you mean I have to come to work on time???” These were the same people who two years later were lapping up the success and pretending to have been a key supporter and influencer in the change initiative all along.
People are predictable, and largely quite stupid. People want change immediately, but they also complain about most of the changes. One thing they definitely don’t want you to do is think about your changes, and take time to plan them out and do them properly. That’s just indecisive and dithering, until it isn’t and all the thoughtful hard work starts to pay off, and then they were a crucial part of it all along.
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Are they really the top people in football?
What are Brailsford's achievements in football? Keeping Nice where they have always been?
Everywhere I see it is mentioned that Berrada was a "senior figure" at City. Looks like this is his first CEO job and will need a lot of on job training.
Ashworth apparently did some decent work with the national set-up but has only managed in club football for less than a year with Newcastle?
Wilcox looks like was an academy director at City.
I am in no way suggesting that these people aren't good or will not do excellently well for us; however, calling them all "Top People" is a bit of a stretch, imo. Looks like they'll all be learning on the job as we move along. These guys don't look very experienced in the roles that we have assigned them at the club.
Also, one thing that keeps bothering me is that Ashworth wanted to groom G.Nev for the England managerial role. Which to me suggests he doesn't always have very sound judgement. And from the noises now it seems like he wants to appoint Mr Waist Coat as our manager, which is a scary prospect.
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Quite likely. Will be disaster if they appoint him.
Also, what happened to developing a game model and then finding a manager that fits that vision? The managerial names touted are as random as any.
Definitely off if he gets appointed
Running a football club is very different from other business endeavours.
The idea that there is evidence of fantastic work seems far fetched. What evidence?
So far they have made a massive mess out of the manager situation.
And the reason people are worried isn't lack of patience, but more a repeat pattern of weird decisions for the teams they own.
A lot of us where worried because of their previous work at Lausanne and Nice, and this manager situation is a worrying sign that United will be more of the same.
I didn’t say fantastic work. I said the early signs are positive. I also specifically pointed out how different my job of running a company was. As for evidence of “fantastic work”, which I didn’t say, I put a list of actual examples of things they’d done, without saying they were definitively good. Just that they appeared well thought out. But don’t let my actual words get in the way of your point. Hyperbole strikes again. Proving the entire premise of my post. I’ll also remind you that I said it’s far too early to know the vast majority of what they are doing, nor be in a position to judge it. But I’m not sure what the point is. People hear what they want to hear, without engaging that mushy substance between their ears.
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