[The holy trinity 68]

Bellingham needs to play deeper. I don't care what kind of season he's had at no. 10, Palmer and Foden have also had great seasons there. Real paid £100m for a guy who'd been playing almost exclusively at no 8. For the sake of the team he can do that job again. Problem is Southgate is going to have to experiment with it in the tournament itself now because this preparation has been a bit shambolic.

He is close to winning the Ballon d'Or from playing further forward and is the best player England have. Why would you want to move him from that position. Play lesser players out of position, not the best player.

 

[Solius]

Fair assessment of the performance last night.

He's a young player and is still learning, not sure what people are expecting?!

They’re allowed to say he’s had a bad game but they’re implying it hindered Rice, who by the sounds of it was just as bad and miles out of position for the goal.

 

[arnie_ni]

Fair assessment of the performance last night.

He's a young player and is still learning, not sure what people are expecting?!

He blamed rice's performance on mainoo as well.

 

[Shipperley]

Ive got no idea why Steinberg said it but fair to say, he/other poster didn’t let it go …. and neither did ‘Twitter’. Especially United Twitter.

‘Steinberg’ is trending right now and there’s post after post on there with @s to his employer asking him to be fired. From what I gather, because he gave Mainoo a 4/10 in his match report. Awful.

 

[Shipperley]

He is close to winning the Ballon d'Or from playing further forward and is the best player England have. Why would you want to move him from that position. Play lesser players out of position, not the best player.

Hasn’t he actually been playing as a false 9?

 

[caid]

‘Steinberg’ is trending right now and there’s post after post on there with @s to his employer asking him to be fired. From what I gather, because he gave Mainoo a 4/10 in his match report. Awful.

Seems like a cnut so cant say im sorry.

 

[Shipperley]

Seems like a cnut so cant say im sorry.

A cnut why? For the posts he put on his Facebook 18 years ago or for giving Mainoo a 4/10? I also thought Kobbie was pretty crap yesterday tbh, no better than a 5/10. Steinberg’s probably got a mortgage and kids, some people really need to get a grip and a life.

 

[caid]

A cnut why? For the posts he put on his Facebook 18 years ago or for giving Mainoo a 4/10? I also thought Kobbie was pretty crap yesterday tbh, no better than a 5/10. Steinberg’s probably got a mortgage and kids, some people really need to get a grip and a life.

All of the above? Acting cnuty? Its the same journalist who announced Ten Hag was getting sacked the day before the Cup Final, which i'd view as a bit classless if it was true. It being clearly made up bullshit makes him cnut. Along with him repeatedly acting like a cnut.

 

[Yagami]

A cnut why? For the posts he put on his Facebook 18 years ago or for giving Mainoo a 4/10? I also thought Kobbie was pretty crap yesterday tbh, no better than a 5/10. Steinberg’s probably got a mortgage and kids, some people really need to get a grip and a life.

Let's be honest here. The only reason you're defending him is because you prefer Wharton to Mainoo.

 

[FootballAI]

Don't know why people have so much desire to blame a certain player for that 1st goal. It was a well executed goal by Iceland, close to perfect with the pass and the shot. Any team on earth can concede it, the pundits that feel the need to blame any of Ramsdale, Stone, Rice or Mainoo for it may need to watch more football matches.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

‘Steinberg’ is trending right now and there’s post after post on there with @s to his employer asking him to be fired. From what I gather, because he gave Mainoo a 4/10 in his match report. Awful.

For United fans it might be because of the ETH article before the FA cup final, which now seems to have been designed as a hit piece rather than credible journalism. Steinberg also epitomises the absurd tribalism that is rife within sports journalism in England, where they side with the team/region they are covering or deflect criticism away from their main sources (in Steinberg's case most likely Rice). His rating of Mainoo yesterday wasn't that weird until he decided to blame the senior player Rice being bad on Mainoo, with nothing on Rice's performance at all.

As for the other stuff, well as Fiona Harvey experienced; the Internet never forgets. Wouldn't be surprised if Luckhurst has a similar past history considering the way he operates.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Don't know why people have so much desire to blame a certain player for that 1st goal. It was a well executed goal by Iceland, close to perfect with the pass and the shot. Any team on earth can concede it, the pundits that feel the need to blame any of Ramsdale, Stone, Rice or Mainoo for it may need to watch more football matches.

It's typical English football journalism. It's either scapegoats or heroes, with nothing in between. From the outside I'm not even sure if it's a positive for us or Mainoo himself that he gets to experience a tournament with England, especially judging by the pieces that came out during the match yesterday.

 

[caid]

It's typical English football journalism. It's either scapegoats or heroes, with nothing in between. From the outside I'm not even sure if it's a positive for us or Mainoo himself that he get to experience a tournament with England, especially judging by the pieces that came out during the match yesterday.

England tournaments are basically an excuse to make a United player a national hate figure every 2 years. Its toxic as feck

 

[Shipperley]

Let's be honest here. The only reason you're defending him is because you prefer Wharton to Mainoo.

Absolutely bizarre take. Ultimately it doesn’t affect my life in any way if Mainoo gets picked over Wharton, it’s not as if I know the guy.

What I’m defending is the right to have an opinion. Mainoo WAS pretty crap last night, as was pretty much everyone else. I wasn’t aware of the additional context with the ETH sacking but trawling someone’s posts from two decades ago to try and get them fired is as embarrassing as feck.

 

[arnie_ni]

Absolutely bizarre take. Ultimately it doesn’t affect my life in any way if Mainoo gets picked over Wharton, it’s not as if I know the guy.

What I’m defending is the right to have an opinion. Mainoo WAS pretty crap last night, as was pretty much everyone else.

Its not the criticism of mainoo by itself. Its then criticising him a 2nd time in the section that was supposed to be about rice. Its an unnecessary pile on, no matter how bad he was or wasn't. EtH said it would happen only 2 weeks ago

 

[redshaw]

How is this Jacob guy employed at The Guardian or anywhere with those abhorrent poisonous posts. Was he especially young or produced some tongue in cheek venom attacks I've missed context on, what in the hell?

 

[Shipperley]

Its not the criticism of mainoo by itself. Its then criticising him a 2nd time in the section that was supposed to be about rice. Its an unnecessary pile on, no matter how bad he was or wasn't. EtH said it would happen only 2 weeks ago

And that’s enough to try and bring down someone’s career? People could just, you know, ignore it?…

 

[caid]

Absolutely bizarre take. Ultimately it doesn’t affect my life in any way if Mainoo gets picked over Wharton, it’s not as if I know the guy.

What I’m defending is the right to have an opinion. Mainoo WAS pretty crap last night, as was pretty much everyone else. I wasn’t aware of the additional context with the ETH sacking but trawling someone’s posts from two decades ago to try and get them fired is as embarrassing as feck.

I feel a bit defensive about him. Partly because he's 19 and has about 30 senior games under his belt, partly because Rashford, Rooney, Beckham, Neville and on and on have gotten dogs abuse for daring to play for England.
I hope he retires from international football and they're back watching kick and rush donkey's like Rice and Gallagher for the next 20 years, teach them to appreciate the talent that plays for them.

 

[arnie_ni]

And that’s enough to try and bring down someone’s career? People could just, you know, ignore it?…

I think he's brought it down himself with those posts, he wrote them, no one else.

But thanks for not addressing the unnecessary criticism of a young black footballer.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

‘Steinberg’ is trending right now and there’s post after post on there with @s to his employer asking him to be fired. From what I gather, because he gave Mainoo a 4/10 in his match report. Awful.

Rightly or wrongly, social media can set a path and loads follow on… some for the right reasons, some not. The ‘why’ is probably a mix of the criticism of Mainoo and ignoring the several shit performances/Southgate (United fans), the exclusive the day before the Cup Final that Ten Hag would be sacked (also United fans) and the old posts (everyone).

Steinberg is not some innocent here (there are numerous posts/comments coming out and he doesn’t look great). And the responses he got are not because of the rating (alone).. they might have started there but escalated because of his historic posts, which are grim.

 

[Pickle85]

I feel a bit defensive about him. Partly because he's 19 and has about 30 senior games under his belt, partly because Rashford, Rooney, Beckham, Neville and on and on have gotten dogs abuse for daring to play for England.
I hope he retires from international football and they're back watching kick and rush donkey's like Rice and Gallagher for the next 20 years, teach them to appreciate the talent that plays for them.

You need to calm down and take a breath. Also, if you think Rice is a kick and rush donkey then you should stop watching football.

 

[Blood Mage]

He was rubbish yesterday, let's stop being biased for once. He's a 19 year old and it was only his second start for England, he'll bounce back.

 

[Toshey]

The problem with over the top criticism of england internationals comes from the fact that english people and media mostly believe England is the Real Madrid of world football when in fact they are the Tottenham.

 

[Shipperley]

I think he's brought it down himself with those posts, he wrote them, no one else.

But thanks for not addressing the unnecessary criticism of a young black footballer.

He gave Foden a 4, not everything has to have a racial undertone.

He also gave a young black player from my club a 4, I don’t think it’s because he’s black and actually I couldn’t care less what he rated him at anyway.

What he said about Rice is “Needs a more disciplined partner than Mainoo”…if that offends people to the point they want to see someone cancelled then I truly despair.

 

[Pickle85]

The problem with over the top criticism of england internationals comes from the fact that english people and media mostly believe England is the Real Madrid of world football when in fact they are the Tottenham.

Wow, what a smart, incisive dissection of English football. You really nailed it without oversimplifying at all. Well done!!

 

[arnie_ni]

He gave Foden a 4 as well, not everything has to have a racial undertone. What he said about Rice is “Needs a more disciplined partner than Mainoo”…if that offends people to the point they want to see someone cancelled then I truly despair.

Yea so he said nothing about rice and criticised mainoo again. United fans knew this would happen. We've been here before. EtH even called it out 2 weeks. It was inevitable these hacks would blame a United United kid for whatever goes wrong. He's also black, like sancho rashford and saka during England's last failure.

And again, he's cancelled himself. No one else but him made those posts.

 

[Shipperley]

Yea so he said nothing about rice and criticised mainoo again. United fans knew this would happen. We've been here before. EtH even called it out 2 weeks. It was inevitable these hacks would blame a United United kid for whatever goes wrong. He's also black, like sancho rashford and saka during England's last failure.

And again, he's cancelled himself. No one else but him made those posts.

He gave a young black player from my club a 4 as well. Do I think it’s because Marc is black? Do I feck. I also thought it was a harsh rating but I’m not crying about it, actually couldn’t give a toss.

 

[MDFC Manager]

The problem with over the top criticism of england internationals comes from the fact that english people and media mostly believe England is the Real Madrid of world football when in fact they are the Tottenham.

I think that's a little unfair, there's some excellent footballers in there. Need the right management, of course, which is severely lacking

 

[caid]

You need to calm down and take a breath. Also, if you think Rice is a kick and rush donkey then you should stop watching football.

If im playing a midfield with Rice and Gallagher i'm not playing through the midfield, im bypassing them. Its not even because they're bad its because they're good at winning the ball back and picking up 2nd balls and playing that kind of game. I wouldn't then turn around and whine about why can't i dominate games like Spain or Germany or Italy or basically every other decent country and why cant i produce players who's game doesn't revolve around running around and making tackles.

 

[Pickle85]

If im playing a midfield with Rice and Gallagher i'm not playing through the midfield, im bypassing them. Its not even because they're bad its because they're good at winning the ball back and picking up 2nd balls and playing that kind of game. I wouldn't then turn around and whine about why can't i dominate games like Spain or Germany or Italy or basically every other decent country and why cant i produce players who's game doesn't revolve around running around and making tackles.

I think you need to stop framing yourself as a European championship coach. Because I'm afraid that you're not.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Got to be honest, given the busy season he’s had, I was hoping he wouldn’t get called up for England. Probably could have done with the rest, and with the national side it’s only a matter of time until the press rush to knock him down. Although, to be fair, I didn’t think it’d happen as quickly as before full time in a friendly.

 

[caid]

I think you need to stop framing yourself as a European championship coach. Because I'm afraid that you're not.

No shit. I didn't. If they play Rice and Gallagher in midfield they'll have less possession than any half decent team they face. If you want to talk about that or Mainoo then your welcome to reply if you want to make insinuations about how 'im framing' myself then i'm not interested

 

[Toshey]

Wow, what a smart, incisive dissection of English football. You really nailed it without oversimplifying at all. Well done!!

There is nothing complicated. Evey major tournament english media starts banging on the "it's coming home" drum, fans get rallied, expectations are sky high.
In fact, the only international english success happened nearly 70 years ago.
And yet english people always believe their national team are favourites.
That's why nonsense like the Beckham effigy happened. And that's why some journalists are willing to tear apart a 19-years old midfielder for a sub par performance in a friendly game.

English media acts like England are one of the top teams in the world, reality is they are tier 2. Nowhere near Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France and Spain.
Maybe if the humble down a little bit, they'll be able to stop overanalysing every little friendly.

 

[Rozay]

Huge prospect. We’ve been waiting a long time for this. Video highlights his capacity to play in any of the three midfield roles, and I’ve said before, but I think his offensive potential is being very underrated at the moment. I think he could easily develop into the furthermost midfield player in a team.

 

[caid]

Huge prospect. We’ve been waiting a long time for this. Video highlights his capacity to play in any of the three midfield roles, and I’ve said before, but I think his offensive potential is being very underrated at the moment. I think he could easily develop into the furthermost midfield player in a team.

Yeah i could see him in a bit of an iniesta role. Think he'll probably be an 8 though

 

[Pickle85]

There is nothing complicated. Evey major tournament english media starts banging on the "it's coming home" drum, fans get rallied, expectations are sky high.
In fact, the only international english success happened nearly 70 years ago.
And yet english people always believe their national team are favourites.
That's why nonsense like the Beckham effigy happened. And that's why some journalists are willing to tear apart a 19-years old midfielder for a sub par performance in a friendly game.

English media acts like England are one of the top teams in the world, reality is they are tier 2. Nowhere near Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France and Spain.
Maybe if the humble down a little bit, they'll be able to stop overanalysing every little friendly.

I mean, England legitimately are one of the bookies' favourites. No? And you're obviously completely clueless as to how English people historically view the side if you say 'english people always believe their national team are favourites.' Because that's simply not true. Bit you'd know that if you were here.

Also:

'English media acts like England are one of the top teams in the world, reality is they are tier 2. Nowhere near Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France and Spain.'

Do you really believe that England are 'nowhere near' those sides? Despite very recent tournament games with Germany, France and Italy. All of which were very close. Can you explain how we're nowhere near?

 

[Rozay]

Yeah i could see him in a bit of an iniesta role. Think he'll probably be an 8 though

Iniesta was arguably an 8. If he was a 10 then what was Rivaldo? I think Iniesta was an advanced 8, sort of in the way Pogba was best as an advanced 8, but not quite as an actual 10. That’s the sort of role I see being tailor made for Mainoo potentially.

I’ve always said there are two types of 8s (well probably three tbh). There are defensive 8s, like Essien or Wijnaldum. Players who favour the defensive duties of an 8, but are clearly not 6s and unsuited to that role. Then there are offensive 8s like Pogba or Gerrard, Poyet - players who excel more in the offensive duties of an 8, but are clearly not actual 10s either. I believe this is also the best role for Bellingham, as he has more of the industry of an 8 than he does the pure silk of a top 10 for me. I liken him to a player like Gerrard, but clearly neither are in the Rui Costa, Odegaard mould of players.

Then I guess you do get players who are a more even split down the middle like Roy Keane, Bentancur, Joao Gomes, who contribute equally going both ways.

I think if a team has an offensive 8, you can easily have a midfield trio without a pure 10.

 

[caid]

Iniesta was arguably an 8. If he was a 10 then what was Rivaldo? I think Iniesta was an advanced 8, sort of in the way Pogba was best as an advanced 8, but not quite as an actual 10. That’s the sort of role I see being tailor made for Mainoo potentially.

I’ve always said there are two types of 8s (well probably three tbh). There are defensive 8s, like Essien or Wijnaldum. Players who favour the defensive duties of an 8, but are clearly not 6s and unsuited to that role. Then there are offensive 8s like Pogba or Gerrard, Poyet - players who excel more in the offensive duties of an 8, but are clearly not actual 10s either. I believe this is also the best role for Bellingham, as he has more of the industry of an 8 than he does the pure silk of a top 10 for me. I liken him to a player like Gerrard, but clearly neither are in the Rui Costa, Odegaard mould of players.

Then I guess you do get players who are a more even split down the middle like Roy Keane, Bentancur, Joao Gomes, who contribute equally going both ways.

I think if a team has an offensive 8, you can easily have a midfield trio without a pure 10.

I think i'd have similar views but divided up differently. I'd probably call an offensive 8 a 10 and what you probably call a 10 a second striker or something in that territory.
I could see him in that offensive 8 anyway. I think the way our squad is likely to be built he just wont get the chance to play there that much and theres liable to be a Rivaldo like guy knocking about to push him a bit deeper into a more traditional bit of both 8 role.

 

[Rozay]

I think i'd have similar views but divided up differently. I'd probably call an offensive 8 a 10 and what you probably call a 10 a second striker or something in that territory.
I could see him in that offensive 8 anyway. I think the way our squad is likely to be built he just wont get the chance to play there that much and theres liable to be a Rivaldo like guy knocking about to push him a bit deeper into a more traditional 8 role.

You could well be right, there’s certainly a thin line between the two roles. And I guess there are different interpretations of the 10 role too. That said, I think a player like Ozil would unanimously be described as a prototype 10, but he has a lot less 8 to him than Gerrard or even Bellingham. To me, it’s also a technical conversation. For a top team, a 10 needs to be highly skilled like Ozil, the magician of the team, not the industry. I’d always want Mainoo to be responsible for a bit more industry than Ozil and do a lot more actual midfield work than Ozil was expected to.

That said, with our current style, there’s every chance that you are right and we opt for a more advanced third man. Although like you, I think Mainoo has this in his locker longer term, although I would still probably prefer to see him a bit deeper than say Bruno in his first years here. Bruno was more positionally like Dele Alli at Spurs rather than Eriksen I think.

 

[Carl]

He gave a young black player from my club a 4 as well. Do I think it’s because Marc is black? Do I feck. I also thought it was a harsh rating but I’m not crying about it, actually couldn’t give a toss.

Did he just give a 4, or did he post a full article about his performance before half time?